#168805 - 03/06/09 03:39 PM
Plastic bags on toxic plants
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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We know to put a clear plastic bag on tree branches to collect clean drinking water.
But what happens to that water if you harvested the water from a toxic plant, like oleander or mountain laurel (Kalmia spp)? Is the water contaminated with the toxins, or is it not an issue?
Sue
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#168808 - 03/06/09 03:56 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: Susan]
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Addict
Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
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I would think that it could potentially be toxic as well. I know some plants have the toxin on their surface, which could easily contaminate the water...
Interesting question tho... hmmm....
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters
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#168812 - 03/06/09 04:48 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: ]
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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Contact contamination is likely with plants whose toxins are located on or near the exposed surfaces. This method would most certainly be problematic with plants such as Poison Ivy, as it would be nigh impossible not to contaminate the plastic with the surface toxins these sort of plants naturally exude. Plants who's primary toxicity is due to ingestion might be less risky, but a lot of care would need to be exercised not to expose the plastic to the inner parts of any of the plant. It would be far more desirable to create a reflux chamber whereby the evaporated water the plant exudes would be channeled to a secondary chamber that would isolate any direct contact from the plant material and allow for condensation and collection in a manner physically isolated from the plant material, similar to how a still functions. A field expedient version might be a bit difficult to properly construct, but the theory is sound, and a little "Macgyver" creativity could produce adequate results.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#168822 - 03/06/09 05:51 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: benjammin]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 215
Loc: N.Cal.
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Per the HoodsWoods DVD"s toxicity will be carried over to the recovered water.
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#168824 - 03/06/09 06:06 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: frediver]
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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Only in the event of direct contact contamination. The indirect method could be used to isolate the toxins from the condensate.
It is not an easy task, but it can be done.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#168832 - 03/06/09 06:53 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: benjammin]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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Okay, I understand.
Thanks!
Sue
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#168838 - 03/06/09 08:37 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: ]
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Stranger
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 17
Loc: SoCal
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Yanno...I don't believe any of my survival handbooks mentions that. I know Les Stroud mentions it in his book. (As in, "do not attempt transpiration on poisonous plants"). I know I've read it elsewhere also, either in the standard Army Survival Manual or some such "comprehensive" tome.
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#168894 - 03/07/09 06:00 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: NightHiker]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 215
Loc: N.Cal.
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Time to bring out the DVD again I guess but IIRC it had more to do with the volatility (?) of the toxic compounds. Direct contact was not the issue, toxicity was carried with the water vapor. If that is the case then using toxic plants in a solar still would not render the product safe to drink.
Perhaps filtering the product thru a charcoal water filter might work but i don't think I want to be the one testing it. How often will you find ONLY toxic plants to use in your water recovery/distillation process?
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#168901 - 03/07/09 08:10 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: frediver]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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This was one of those questions that pops up while I'm driving endless miles in the dark.
"How often will you find ONLY toxic plants to use..."
Stranded in a jungle of oleander bushes... what a nightmare THAT would be!
Thanks for the info, guys!
Sue
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#168915 - 03/08/09 02:34 AM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: Susan]
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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Yes, as in a solar still. The volatization of the toxic compounds would only be a factor if the condensation point was identical to that of water, in which case a reflux chamber could be added, if you were really worried about it. I think you'll find that most of those compounds don't volatize very well (or the plants would have a tough time keeping their production rate up) at ambient temps, and will either recondense at a higher or lower temp, thus making it possible to isolate them in the condensate line from the water.
Like I said, it wouldn't be easy, but it can be done. We were isolating alchohol from water in high school. How hard can it be?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#168919 - 03/08/09 03:15 AM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: benjammin]
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Troglodyte007
Unregistered
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I used to work for an old eccentric lady who grew oleanders like crazy. She was always on the lookout for that unique oleander flower and would raise cuttings. I think she had a bad memory, because every few days she would tell me about how easy it would be to kill someone by putting some ground up leaf in lemonade. Then one day after a hard day at work in the summer sun, she offered me some lemonade. GULP! I tried to act as if I wasn't thirsty, but she kept insisting. I caved and drank it. WHEW! I quit that job soon after that day. Too weird and scary for me.
I wouldn't try to get water from a poisonous plant unless I had no other option.
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#168926 - 03/08/09 02:59 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: ]
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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I would agree that harvesting water from poisonous plants is sort of a last ditch alternative. There should be plenty of other options to choose from. I just can't imagine there being a whole lot of places where only toxic plants abound.
More to the point, I think the thread points out that if you are using the direct method you want to know what plant you are working with. That seems the more practical, useful point than to see how it could actually be done. Using my method you'd just about have to have a degree in MacGyverisms.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#168935 - 03/08/09 07:38 PM
Re: Plastic bags on toxic plants
[Re: benjammin]
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Troglodyte007
Unregistered
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I MacGuyver ish, but not quite a MacGuyver ist.
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