On the west coast I am getting little update on the boating accident in Florida with two NFL players and two college players.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hS6PqL0gP6nqbWGEj4Eniq8hJeygD96M49203

This is the latest I've got.

Click here for a local news report, perhaps prior to AP "filtering":
http://www.tampabay.com/

JohnJohn Kennedy Deja Vu?
I heard 4 news reports about "two NFL players" until they mentioned 4 souls were involved.
The NFL has volunteered to help any way they can.
Maybe some linebackers can serve gatoraid to the SAR crews?
Or maybe a Public Service Commerical about wearing your PFD in 12' seas.

Hope somehow they get lucky and find these guys alive. But unless they are darn lucky, I think the chances of that are getting slimmer.

I'd be interested in knowing about these guys prior experience n boats.

It didn't say if they were wearing life jackets. Without those their odds are short and getting shorter with every added hour. Then again people have been picked up alive after many days. So the chances are approaching zero but hope remains.

Just heard on the radio that the 1 guy they rescued was the only person aboard wearing a PFD, and that the other 3 were not.

That desn't sound good

Sounds about right to me, PFD's are so inhibiting. . .

Now they know the answer to the question, "How long can you tread water?"

I don't have much sympathy for these guys.

Latest on CNN contradicts that:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/03/florida.missing.boaters/index.html

Schuyler last saw his three friends at 2 a.m. Monday, his father told CNN affiliate WTSP in Tampa on Monday afternoon. The three were wearing life vests.

From the link in Doug's post:Wouldn't being anchored in 10' seas increase the chance of a 21' boat capsizing? That just doesn't seem like a wise thing to me.

Good to hear they were all in life vests.

Edit:
Just heard a Coast Guard spokesman saying that at the time the boat capsized they weren't wearing life vests and had to swim under the boat to retrieve them from wear they were stored.

Goes to state-of-mind your honor.

Search ends for NFL players lost off Fla. coast.

My comments published earlier today.

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=106

Unfortunate.

I think that this Coast Guard Capt. probably overestimated. It's darn tough to see someone on the surface of any large body of water. All you are really looking for is a head, bobbing up and down in waves. I've had a few times when finding a navigation mark, many times the size of a human head. Add in a decent sea or swell, and it gets tougher.

On the other hand, it would very difficult for anyone to have survived this long in that water.

My prayers and sympathies for their families.

I've known few CG captains to overestimate anything;lots of ensigns, but few captains.

We've probably had different experiences with the USCG. If you said that about Warrant Officers, I'd agree.

Fox News is reporting that the survivor says that the NFL guys gave up:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504464,00.html

More of my commentary:

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=107

"Scott Miller, a friend of the college teammates, said Schuyler told him that a chopper shone a light directly above them the first night. Schuyler also told him he even saw lights beaming from ashore."

Most boating stores sell a small pouch (some examples: http://www.thefind.com/sports/info-survival-pouch) that attaches to a PFD belt. Its big enough for a strobe, mirror, whistle, a couple of flares and a flashlight, and of course, your PLB (all attached by a separate lanyard). Any one of theses signaling devices might have made a difference.

I wonder what the weather forecast said before they left - modern forecasts 24 hours ahead generally aren't _that_ far off, not to miss 10'-15' seas vs. whatever a 21' boat would be reasonably expected to handle.

That sure seems like a small boat to me to be so far out. I don't boat any more but when growing up I had a small 16' boat, and I doubt I ever got more than 1,000 feet from shore. That was in parts because of (1) fear of my dad finding out, (2) fear of the cranky motor quitting and (3) weather forecasts weren't as good in the 1960s, but still I wonder if that far out at sea is a good idea for anyone.

How well does a person in the water stand out in NVG? Their heads ought to be 25+ degrees warmer than the surrounding water, but it's an awful small single-pixel target...

It's the same thing I've heard from aircraft owners, "Why should I invest in something I will never need ? " Either a PLB or other rescue equipment is last on most owners list, they would rather put there money in the latest fishing equipment, or some new nav aid. But don't many of us fall for this where we buy the newest knife/ tent/ pack ect. when perhaps we should be look at other preprations for emergencys ? But because it's hard to get excited about a water barrel we let it pass. Just my thought YMMV.

I still don't understand the dropping anchor part. . . What does that do for them? IMO as soon as they realized the weather had turned they should have been up on the step heading back in. 20/20

Reports say they retrieved and donned the life vests after the boat capsized.

As I have written before, my next purchase is a PLB, probably when the newest versions are reviewed this summer. I will restitch packs and tents, make due with older models of this or that.

I already carry whistles, mirrors, flares, strobes on me when they count. All separately corded to my body.

I am thoroughly convinced that for me an ACR Microfix is mandatory equipment for how I approach life. Have I needed one in the past...maybe, but I got through it. Now with a greater appreciation for my life and what its worth, its better to be prepared than not. Isn't my life worth $700 if it works?

BTW, would an ACR Microfix work fifty miles out to sea? Isn't that the distance the boat flipped? If not how far out to sea would it work based on actual tests or activations.

Dropping anchor can provide stability by keeping the bow (pointy end) facing into the waves. I don't know how deep it was where they were, but you are supposed to depoloy at LEAST three times the anchor line as the depth (i.e. 150 feet of line if you are in 50 feet of water). That is a minimum, or your anchor is going to pull free of the bottom each time the waves push the boat up.

Having said that, it would not be my first choice in those conditions. I would do it only if there were no other options, such as if the engine died.

An ACR MicroFix will work globally -- 50 miles, 500 miles, 3000 miles. SPOT has the coverage issues, not ACR or McMurdo's PLB's.

Okay, I can see deploying a sea anchor to stabilize the boat, but not a Danforth or whatever type they dropped. Need more info (probably off topic to this thread).

Family members to continue the search. Hope they prepare.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29454121/

I have wondered IF I should write my thoughts on some of this attitude to survive. Last night when info came out that 3 left the safety of the boat the way they did I wondered how Laurence Gonzales or Doug would write it. I am not trying to be inflammatory here, and I sincerely apologize if I am.

These men may have been young, strong strapping football players, but most professional athletes I know, and I know quite a few, are coddled mentally their entire life and never face the seriousness of reckless action. From high school to college and beyond, (pejoratively) pro athletes have grades handed to them, given passes in all tests of manhood not pertaining to furthering a sports career and generally coast through life. Their pampered. When confronted with any moment of life altering seriousness; family members, agents, lawyers, managers, handlers and close friends either make the decision for them or handle the issue by committee. Unlike the serious focus and determination they make towards the betterment of their condition for their profession, many of the athlete I know are quite fragile and weak mentally, unable to make a decision for them self without getting advice. It did not surprise me when I heard that at least one gave up by taking off their PFD and slipped away.

Exclusions certainly abound and when confronted with any potential responses to the above paragraph, I will say that none of these players in this accident were set on a trajectory that would transcend their sport and force them to be a persona of greatness like Ali, Beckham, Tiger, Jordan, et al where they would need to mature past just being a really, really good player in their sport. People like this are looked at as an entity above their sport and therefore constantly put into a position to make crucial decisions in business or life in front of the camera or on the spot, mindset is different when your the leader of the team or the guy who gets X million for playing, (or acting or signing, etc). For every sport god mentioned above there is 50 or more athletes who feel their life is an entitlement for what they can do in a sport and their lifestyle insulates them from confronting a real emergency with prepared thought and action.

Look this is a blanket comment not an indictment of these 3 or 4 guys. In fact the boat owner went to high school in my town and his family goes to my church where there was a vigil held last night. His dad is a local sportscaster. I am truly sorry for the loss of these guys. In the end,it's no longer going to be the story of 3 lost football players, its going to be about the survival story of the 1 who lived.

I am saddened that the 3 gave up or gave in. Its horrible. I have family and friends that would make the exact same decision that 3/4 of that boat made. That gives me no peace of mind. I am glad that one lived.

I will confess I am cringing as I hit the Submit button. I have no idea how this post will go over.

It's stories like this that make me think we need to bring back rites of passage. Maybe forcing them to slay a lion with just a short spear would be a bit much. Sending a kid out into the wilderness for 3 days/nights of fasting or something to show them they CAN SURVIVE IT!

-Blast

Altered mental status due to hypothermia is a distinct possibility, as opposed to any character weakness or lack of motivation to survive. It happens that way sometimes.

Jeff

I'm betting that just reading the weather forecast before leaving is an even better idea, and quite a bit cheaper than a PLB.

A little practice is useful since the forecast may off a little as to just how far a weather front will go in the next 24 hours. But it's rare for weather to appear out of nowhere so checking forecasts a couples hundred miles around their plan would likely have revealed a problem before ever getting on the boat.

I'm betting that is this case the most important part of Preparedness is Avoidance.

Fox News is reporting that just days before the fishing trip a buddy of the boat owner told him to buy a EPIRB for the boat.

FOX LINK

One of the reasons I have delayed my PLB buy is that I have no back country trips planned till late in the year. But I guarantee as good as the Park Service is, if I do my rim to rim to rim of the Grand Canyon in the fall I will have one. Not to mention once I am able to just do basic trail runs again in the desert.

Wow, just wow. A major confirmation of Doug's advice.

I'm all for having an EPIRB and/or PLB. In this case, it might have been a good idea. I've been sailing on smaller calmer bodies of water and made sure the EPIRB was working before we left.

But checking the weather before you leave and regularly while out, out at sea, out in the middle of the woods, out anywhere that weather can really change things for you, and even just making sure you check at home once in a while is a steller idea. If you are not listening for weather reports, how do you know if the weather in the near future is something that might be threatening, you or anything about which you care.

But I'd also recommend learning about and paying attention to weather patterns. It can often be very helpful, sand sometimes it can save your bacon, if not your hide.

when i read the reports this is what came immediately to mind. they were hypothermic when they abandoned the life jackets they had put on after the swamping.

not clear to me, but if they could hit bottom with an anchor, were they near an island?

Formal Accident Report by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

In short the anchor had been tied to the front of the boat (right) but when the anchor got stuck to the seabed they tied it to the rear (wrong) and tried to use engine power to pull the anchor free. That flipped the boat immediately.

In large it appears they were wwwaaayyy over their skill level being out at sea over 50 miles from port in 5'+ seas in a 21' outboard boat.

A SAR beacon would have had them in bed on time. But simpler still, the accident was preventable by checking weather reports, or perhaps realizing that they simply didn't have the experience needed to be where they were.