Hey All,

I'm not trying to start a heated debate, but I have a question about something I truly don't quite understand.

This board is for and about folks who want to be prepared to survive. Not survivalists. In other words, folks who want to get through a situation and return to their normal life. (The assumption here being if they REALLY wanted the mountain man life they would be living it now). So here is the question...

As part of my personal mantra for surviving unforseen events and returning to my life, I want to be seen. I mean S-E-E-N!

If I could, I would find a hot pink bacpack with glowing neon lights and a strobe light on top! Anyone remember the classic cartoon of Ed the hapless deer hunter in the "man suit"? Complete with the flashing bells and waving flags so he wouldn't get mistaken for a buck. -smile-

Yet lots of folks here have bob bags, shtf packs, s.e.r.e. kits, and more in camo, or black, or desert camo, etc.

Why?

Again, I am trying to understand the approach. If it's about wanting to keep a low profile amongst regular folks, I guess I can see that. But would'nt a nice red backpack from NorthFace, Mountainsmith, et al be a lot more low profile than a tactical pack in camo with molle attachments? Plus it would be easier to see.

Thanks in advance for the level-headed discussion,

It depends upon what you envision having to survive.
If you are lost in the woods, then of course you
want to be highly visible so you can be rescued.

However, in other situations it is much wiser to
maintain a low profile and go unnoticed.

Now, the question really is, will a Dark Earth Brown
military type pack make you stand out or not? Or will
a blue Wal-Mart pack let you blend in.

It all depends......I think in many cases people
who are expecting to have to remain 'low profile'
would be better served with a normal color
commercial pack rather than an uber tacticool
ACU camo unit......

For me, my large backpack is camo, since, if I'm in the woods, it is to hunt. With that being said, I have a neon orange rain cover for it. The equipment I have inside of the pack is very bright to get attention if I should need it. Every thing is marked with at leased 2 colors of neon duct tape for increased contrast.

For urban EDC/preparedness tools, I would rather prefer not to be constantly scrutinized and hassled. So, the items are rather subdued in color or the items they are carried in are some none bright color.

Part of the reason is that there are many good tactically-oriented manufactuers that don't offer their products in non-tactical colors. I've commented more than once to Countycomm about that. Coyote, OD, and black are the least "tacticool" you can sometimes get.

Yes, of course there are great civilian manfacturers too. I LOVE Mtn Hardwear, TNF, Marmot, etc. And I use them A LOT when camping. But, for something that I'll most likely use only infrequently, it's often cheaper, and in some ways more durable, to go with military surplus or similar. I'm not about to drop $150 on an Arcteryx backpack that's sitting in my basement for 5 years, when a $40 USGI alice pack is bigger, cheaper, and not too painful to replace if something happens. My Arcteryx, though, leans up on it, and it's filled with more used stuff.

If I want to be seen, I'm not counting on my backpack to do it. My orange stocking cap, or rain slicker, or blue tarp, is going to be used for that much more easily.

Besides, if it's ever time for "scrounger mode," I'd like the option of dropping my bag in a patch of brush in a city park and being able to retrieve it later. Kind of hard to do with my bright blue Arcteryx!

Good question MedB.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately too. Our three year old just got her new hiking backack - a bright pink one that can probably be seen for miles! It's hardly tactical but - she's three! She loves it and so do we!

My new pack is a dull blue but came with a rain cover that's bright yellow. I'm going to find one up for all of our family's packs. It will have to do for now!

You have a very good point.
I never intended camo and only have 2 pieces of clothing in it.

Still most of my gear is mouse grey, drab green, tan or soft black.
Whenever it is near hunting season I turn bright fluorescent orange.

I have been thinking of starting to purchase replacement gear in brighter colours like Sunshine Yellow and other hues that stand out well in the woods.

My packs will still likely stay subdued, and not just so they are easy to cache if I have to, but because Cordura in black is the standard and most resistant to UV degradation.

Edit:
Another problem is that I just find really bright colours hard on my own eyes.

Interesting questions you've posed, MedB. My answer has several parts: (1) My Urban Search and Rescue deployment gear bags and web gear are Bright Red and equipped with Scotchlite trim. When involved in those operations I want to be visible.
These bags travel with me to all in state events, US&R or otherwise. (2) My SAR pack is equally bright and reflective, just not as well provisioned, but has all the required essentials for successful mission completion. Both of the aforementioned have additional bright colored signal panels and a strobe. (3) My Every Day Carry (SHTF,BOB,etc) bag is Tactical Black without any bright colored anything attached. Because I carry this multi-purpose bag during my normal tours and have occasion to be involved with LEO/SWAT ops this is the best color, 'cause I don't wanna be seen. (4) If I have to go into bug out mode, on foot, I'm planning to take the road less traveled and that could put me in places where I wouldn't want to visible. I am NOT a survivalist, but I plan, train, and equip myself to survive in a number of dynamic enviroments.
The US&R bags, SAR pack, and web gear might be deployed 3-4 times a year, while the "EDC bag" is carried daily and certain parts of the gear are used frequently.
I think it comes down to the situation you are trying to survive or the area you're bugging out of.

I agree with you, even though I like camo. Although, I believe there is a fine line between survival and survival ism. It depends on the circumstance. Camo can be helpful if stalking survival food, and also, obviously, if avoidance of detection by humans is desired.
I will wear camo or colors that blend into my environment, and if I need to signal for help, I can with whistle, mirror, a separate brightly colored cloth, fire, etc. I can only see bright clothing or backpack helping if for a prone individual or small child, basically someone who is incapable for whatever reason to the point that taking an active role in being found can't happen. I would rather have the option of being invisible if need be, hungry or paranoid as that might make me seem.

I went with desert camo for my SHTF bag. It's a MOLLE tactical bag, and the options were basically camo patterns or black. I went with the desert digital because it'll be easier to find (in the woods) than woodland camo (in my opinion) and easier to find in the dark than black.

I went with the tactical variety of bag because they're designed to take a lot of abuse by our troops. I wanted something that's pretty much indestructible and easy to add on to (MOLLE webbing attachments).

Mine is the Voodoo Tactical Tobago. It's very tough, has a LOT of pockets, a LOT of room, and I think it was a very good deal at $68.

I feel you on that point. I once hiked behind a guy whose pack was neon blue. For hours at a time in bright Florida sun It was thee burning itself into my retinas. I would close my eyes and still see that damned thing. We had to change the marching order.

Hikers and campers often floor into narrow tracts of land and a overly bright backpack, jacket or tent can pretty much ruin the view of scenic vista. It is sometimes termed 'visual pollution'.

My preferences are for drab earth colors. Deep greens and blues. Subdued reds. Gray, black and browns. OD green and browns are okay. Not quite military enough to be mistaken for a mall ninja but pretty nondescript and subdued enough to not catch the eye if you want to slip out the back.

Much of my gear is military surplus, simply because it's really good bang for the buck. I try to avoid camo when possible and prefer OD.

All in all, I prefer to stay invisible outdoors. I spend a fair bit of time hiking in the woods or climbing a mountain or two. To me, it's as much a way of staying in shape as it is getting away from the city, the crowds and traffic.

So when I'm in the bush I like to be left alone. When I camp for the night I always pick a quiet spot well away from the trail, some place where the fire won't be seen easily for any distance and I try to blend in with the environment. I also disturb the wildlife a lot less that way and can experience the outdoors much more intensely than the casual hiker.

So far, I've never been in a surival situation outdoors. I guess I'll just keep wearing clothing and gear in OD or any other subdued color, even camo occasionally. 99.9% of the time I spend outdoors is to get away and relax, which means I prefer to keep a low profile. If I ever need to catch attention in the bush, I have many other ways to do that. But I sure won't ruin my entire outdoor experience carrying a bright backpack or some other eye sore. YMMV!

Thanks for the replies thus far, and the tone.

To clarify, I totally undestand the need for camo while hunting (wore it myself). And I also understand the desire for subdued colors while hiking (wear them myself, though I try to make sure my kids have something bright).

But specifically I was asking about bob bags, shtf bags, etc that are designed to be used only in a survival situation. I guess also beyond that, I am asking about s.e.r.e. kits and the mindset in general about wanting to "go commando" in a survival situation vs "be found". I suppose the former is what I think of when I hear folks talk about survival gear/bags/kits in camo and drab colors.

Personally, my "you have 90 seconds to get out of the house and into the truck bags" are Mountainsmith bags. Bright red with yellow trim, logo and pulls. One for mre's, one for gear & light rations, etc. I have a smaller Mountainsmith daypack in each vehicle along with matching waist pack for the kids. Mountainsmith makes pretty tough gear at a fair price. My thinking says they are easy to find in a hurry, easy to spot if WE need to be found, and not so intimidating that we draw attention in a crowd of folks.

So as I reflect more, perhaps I found the answer? If one has hiking/hunting gear and a separate dedicated "uh oh" kit/bags, then bright colors make sense? But trying to do it all with one set of gear means tactical toughness and appearance are a neccessary compromise?

Thanks,

i always though that orange trashbags were for visibility

For me, I simply wear whatever colors I like best. I don't care one way or another about blending in. That means black for urban, and OD or camo for the woods. I never gave it a thought about what others think.

I don't do much hiking or hunting, so the tactical choice for me was just related to the usefulness (pockets, attachment points, and size) and price of the bag. And the fact that it's been well-tested in the toughest of conditions by others, so I know it's good to go.

As others stated, I have a bright blue tarp, orange poncho, metallic blanket, whistle, signal mirror, and other high-visibility items so I'm not to worried if I need to be seen.

In my area, many people prefer not to have to see bright colors on others while out hiking or camping. They feel bright colors take away from their wilderness enjoyment and solitude.

Ok, if you're asking specifically about an "uh-oh" BOB then I guess brightly colored gear would be an advantage as long as you want to draw attention. I remember the story of an experienced hiker who slipped on a mountain trail, tumbled a couple of hundred yards down a steep slope and ended up paralyzed at the bottom of a ravine. He was wearing camo and because he broke his spine there was no way he could move or do anything. The SAR helicopter flew by several times and missed him. He was only found two days later, in bad shape but still alive. So camo is definitely a disadvantage in an extreme case like that and you have a good point there.

By and large though, I can see a lot of potential survival situations (like public disturbance or some disaster causing widespread panic) where I'd much rather get away from the crowds and maintain a low profile. I've experienced first-hand once how people can turn hostile when things go wrong. In general, most folks will not be prepared when disaster strikes. If you happen to be prepared yourself when nobody else around you has the gear and supplies, they might want you to "share" your belongings with them. In a situation like that I'd rather go some place remote and sit it out until the crisis was over. So I guess there's no right or wrong answer. A lot depends on your environment and the people you're dealing with.

I just like all my gear to be black and if I need to be seen then I can pack something more visible.

It all depends. If you are hunting, you might want camo, but you have to remember that if you are moving around at all, that animals hear really well, and people are quite noisy, which kind of defeats the idea of camo. Animals are keyed to colors, but much more to movement. If you are just walking around, hiking or what ever, it doesn't really do any thing except enrich Cabela's and other stores. A friend of mine got a camo pocket knife. Lost it the first week. Put it down, forgot it, went back and couldn't find it. I hunt alot with Aboriginal people, and camo is not even thought about. I think alot about camo is a personal perception. Thats my two cents.

I am with Homer,in that my stuff is in large part black.

However,I can see times when one might want to hide, or be camoflaged. I can without question see times when being able to draw attention can save your life. Isn't it wise to have the ability to do both?

Also, wouldn't what works to camoflage you or anything change as your environment changes? In an urban area, camo might just make you stand out.

This is borderline off-topic, but it came to mind and I thought I'd share it anyway.

Myself and another producer where shooting a video in the Wind River Range. We needed a shot of a signal mirror reflecting in the distance. I dropped him off on a roadside ledge with the camera and a view of the opposite ridge.

I got in the car and drove to the other ridge, maybe a half-mile away and got some gear together. By happenstance, I pulled out an all-weather blanket and jammed it on the outside of if my pack under some bungee cords with the shiny side out. As I scrambled up the slope I created intermittent reflections from the blanket that marked my movement.

I found a location and started to signal with the mirror. We caught some of the reflections on camera and used them in the program, but it wasn't quite the shot that we had hoped for. When we discussed the shot later, he said that my movement up slope with the reflections from the blanket on my pack was more visible than my stationary use of the mirror. When I wasn't moving and without any reflections, I pretty much vanished from sight.

I'm not quite sure how this relates other than, at a distance, anyone can be hard to spot and movement has a lot to do visibility.

I have a mixture of civilian colours and OD for the big stuff (clothing and pack). I like OD because it blends in the background. Having the same colours as the surrounding makes you feel more a home. The more moderne and lighter weight equipment seams to be all civilian so i'm shifting to civial colours.

However all mine small stuff are equipped with reflection tape or glow-in-dark and reflective cord. I had search for mine stuff too often...

I carry the best I can afford, regardless of color. I have the stuff I need to be found if needed, and I know how to hide if I need to. When camping, I carry little that is in subdued colors. My kids are in all lemony yellow and orange orange stuff. Backpacks, ponchos, clothing, tents, etc. It is difficult at times to find clothing and equipment suitable for camping which is not tan or green. These colors hide dirt and stains well and they sell better than most bright colors to people who camp.

Carry what works and what you need. If you are alive, there many ways to be seen. If you are dead, then subdued colors do not aid in finding your body, but then you won't care anymore.

No camo for me, but I do prefer muted colors for my campsite and my backpack (green and grey, at the moment). Even my car is a muted green (Honda Element).

My dog is bright white so she practically glows in any surrounding that's not snow-covered.

Same here -- subdued colors, earth tones, OD or dark/black. OTOH, I don't have anything that would qualify as camouflage.

Guys, here is a simple test for those of you who wear black so not to be seen, (1) go out on a very cloudy day, (2) at dusk and (3) at night wearing black and then a dark grey and see which one is easier to notice. You might be surprised.

After reading these posts, I wondered if wearing camo was best for hunters, so I googled 'do deer see color'. The answer was NOT what I expected!

What Deer See: http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/atskodeersee.shtml

I guess a lot of hunters didn't know that! Bambi doesn't see what we see.

Sue

I don't really care about gear color to be honest. I bought a tangerine-yellow Osprey Stratos 32 backpack as a daypack and for search and rescue mostly because I liked it's features.

I use a Black Diamond Bullet 16 which is black, this is my summit pack/short hike pack. Bought it because is was rugged but still lightweight.

I use a blue Arc'teryx Bora 50 pack for much longer hikes, bushwhacking or overnights. Got it super cheap off a classifieds site. It's blue.

My first LARGE pack was a dark green 70-liter Karrimor pack, I got it during a clearance deal but I harly use it.

So my purchases usually depend on :

1) intended use
2) price
3) closet space

Sure, but attracting attention can be achieved more easily than blending in. If you're wearing OD or camo it's good practice to keep a large, bright plastic bag or tarp. When deployed properly, it will be seen a good distance, much better than a neon blue backpack. But if all or most of your gear is painfully bright and you look like you just went to a rave party you'll have a very difficult time blending in or even camouflaging should the need arise.

Thanks, all. I appreciate the answers. Some very good thoughts expressed here.

Seems like there are several reasons people wind up with camo/black/od gear. And as I stated earlier, I understand hunting and hiking with woodland-type gear. And now I also get the fact that for some things the civillian equivalent is more money or not as tough.

But to draw this back one more time to dedicated emergency gear, I have a sense there are some folks that do choose gear with half a thought to hiding out during a crisis if needed. Here are my thoughts around that...

Personally I do not plan for, nor want to be part of a scenario where I feel the need to "go commando" and hide out in the woods with my wife and children. Hence there is not a single piece of emergency gear/clothing I own that will help me escape detection. Just the opposite in fact. Perhaps I am flawed in that thinking. -shrug-

However I do plan for emergencies, which by my definition are short-term interruptions to our regular life. Even when an entire section of the country was affected by a disaster and the government response was slow as in hurricane Katrina, I didn't see anyone needing to hide in the woods from the helicoptors/marauders/zombies/et al. Are there scenarios I can conjure up in my imagination where society itself breaks down and I need to hide? I suppose so. But while that type of thing makes great movie fodder, it's just not what I plan for.

But it sounds like there are lots of reasons we choose the gear we do. Thanks for sharing yours,

That was interesting Sue.
They are selling a product so I will have to check and see if what they say is true about deer seeing UV blue.
If they are right it explains a few things I have noticed over the years about how deer act.

The reason I go to Fluorescent orange in the fall is to keep from getting shot by the Nimrods.
I do not wear white in season for the same reason.
Whitetail deer flash the underside of their tails when they are alarmed and fleeing. It is like somebody waving their handkerchief.
Not only is a white flash an alarm for the deer, I have known people who would shoot at anything that flashed white on the assumption it was a deer they had spooked.

Yeah, interesting food for thought. I wonder though if the UV from the dyes is really such a dead give-away. IME, I've been able to stalk deer with some success as long as I've paid attention to the wind and smell. I don't hunt but I've frequently been able to approach deer to under 10 yards, sometimes I managed to get so close I could probably take one with a spear if I had to, maybe even bare hands.

I've noticed that my clothing makes relatively little difference. I tend to wear OD or similar, rarely camo but as far as I can tell, it's the movement that spooks deer. Sometimes the deer would sense my movement and look around, even looking straight at me but as long as I remained still (crawling or taking cover in the undergrowth seems to work best) they couldn't get a proper visual contact.

My tastes are all over the place. I have tactical packs that are tan but military stuff is generally heavier. So for EDC I use a basic backpack. Mtn. Hardware currently. I usually go with muted colors like dark orange or gold with black trim. I have been thinking of pulling out my canvas messenger bag for a bit as a change of pace.

Its not difficult today to blend in with a military style pack. In fact a very neutral pack would be a cloth rucksack like those sold at Old Navy and American Eagle.

My 'camouflage' is not to be hidden but to blend in, so that people don't realize I have a lot of cool ass crap in my bag. A non-descript bag is less likely to get stolen hanging on the back of a chair or sitting next to you.

The only real reason I would have to want camo is if I had to deliberately leave something behind, planning to come back and retrieve it. Camo would be easier to hide, and less likely to be seen than orange or hot pink or silver. Otherwise, color would seem to be more useful than not, for my purposes also.

But, the pocket sizes and arrangements supercede the color!

Sue

I'm struggling to understand what the question actually is.

Sometimes survival means being seen to be rescued. Sometimes it means sneaking around bad people to get to a place of safety. Sometimes it means sufficient stealth to obtain dinner.
Sometimes it means making your goodies look a lot less desirable to 2 footed predators.

Seems to me that in general it's good to be low profile. Woodland camo BDUs aren't low-profile in town. Gray BDUs are pretty non-descript and low vis. Black looks a bit too threatening to wear very much of it for my taste.
Dark and drab colored packs and stuff are low vis.

Carrying stuff (mirrors, hunter orange hats/scarves, reversible colored clothing) to create visibility when wanted seems like the best way to go.

I prefer to be low vis except when driving.

I've detoured around unknown/hostile folks in the woods by being drab and quiet. Was glad I'd dressed low-vis that day. (outfitter known to "protect" an area of public land from the public. Would run them off at gunpoint until the Sheriff came to see him.)

Camo is very acceptable where I live. There are subdued colors and camo everywhere. Sometimes I think I am the only one in town wearing bright colors when I do.

Same here, it's nothing to walk into a restaurant or shopping mall here in Alabama and half the people in there are wearing camo. Mind you, it's not usually desert digital like my SHTF bag, but it's camo.

Dark green and brown "hoodies" are very popular among the young people here too.

My typical hiking outfit: dark gray or blue shorts, bright orange shirt, red backpack with black trim and blue neoprene add-on pockets, light tan hat, white socks, red bandanna. If it rains, out comes my bright red rain jacket. If it gets cold, I grab the blue fleece vest (sometimes the maroon one), the brown watch cap and the cute little gray wool knit gloves with snowflakes and reindeers on them (they're woman's gloves, but they work well).

I am fashion king! But for some reason, REI has never asked me to grace the front cover of their catalogs (?) I can't figure out that snub.

This about killed me!

Yeah, gotta love some folks. It was the same way when I lived in Missouri. "Realtree" camoflauge was rampant. No one went hunting/working/to Walmart in military camo, just overpriced civvie stuff. I don't get it. I mean, camo is camo, for the most part, right? I think hunters use camo to make up for lack of their professiency at marksmanship and stalking (this is the opinion of someone who has never hunted, but sure spooked a lot of deer)

Just went to a talk by a guy that got stuck on a glacier for 5days in BC. Happily waving to the rescue helicopter each day - from outside his dark green tent, pitched in the shelter of some dark green rocks.

He said the first thing he bought after being rescued was a bright orange tent!