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#168112 - 02/27/09 03:13 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Russ]
Andrew_S Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: Russ
Sure, the SAR community didn't get called in, but all the hotel guests were accounted for. These two were no longer clients of the resort, they checked out.


Incorrect; they still had ski passes on the day they went missing. Their car was still parked in the lot, but the resort missed it when they did their check -- they didn't check the underground parking.

Yes, indeed, they could have had a GPS, or a PLB, or a dozen things. And that angle is being covered. (Although the media is fascinated with plugging SPOT and has apparently never heard of PLBs.)

But someone inevitably won't, and that's why we have a SAR system.


Edited by Andrew_S (02/27/09 03:19 PM)
Edit Reason: added new link

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#168114 - 02/27/09 03:31 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: benjammin]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3240
Loc: Alberta, Canada
For anyone who's interested, here are a few of the latest reports.

Regarding the sequence of events and the SAR-related tangled communications:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090226.wskier0226/BNStory/National/home

Regarding some of the skiers' actions and experiences after they got into trouble:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Lost+skiers+leaves+drank+creek+water/1334887/story.html

http://canadaspace.com/CBC.php?/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/02/26/rescue.html



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#168115 - 02/27/09 03:37 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Andrew_S]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Plenty of blame to go around, but SAR's first shot at ending this came two days after they went missing when their first SOS was spotted by a local skier. Maybe if SAR wasn't there at all and people knew they really were on their own, they wouldn't be so stupid.

This should have ended on the first day when they could have stayed in-bounds. Or it could have ended in the afternoon when realizing they were lost they broke out their GPS to see where they needed to go. Instead they were out there two days before their first SOS was seen and they weren't even with the signal because they kept moving instead of staying in one place.

Lot's of blame for the resort and RCMP, but it starts with the victims.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#168121 - 02/27/09 05:01 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3240
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I am interested in everyone's thoughts on this issue:

When you're travelling alone or with a spouse/friend, and undertaking a variety of outdoor activities, what's the most effective way leave word with a responsible third party so that you will be missed in a reasonable time frame?

As the story above illustrates, two weeks is far too long a period to drop off the grid. 24 hours is better if you're in real trouble, but perhaps that's not practical.

I'm curious how the rest of you do this.

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#168122 - 02/27/09 05:03 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Russ]
Colourful Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 87
Loc: Yukon
Better education is the key. An club for out-of-bound skiers might help.

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#168124 - 02/27/09 05:14 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: dougwalkabout]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
In a situation such as this, I would leave word with the front desk at the resort as to my plans and locations, and I would also call my daughter(s) with my agenda and a contact time for later. If we miss the call, then the girls will contact the resort and escalate, and most importantly, remain tenacious until we are contacted. The girls know the drill.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#168125 - 02/27/09 05:24 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: benjammin]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
At a minimum +1 with a note at the front desk.

Look were not secret agents here, in fact as we try to be on this site, 'prepared', it makes sense to let the hotel know if your going to be doing something that involves risk and to contact the appropriate business if you don't return on time.

I'm not talking about telling the chick at the front desk of the the Marriott that your family is going to Disneyland for the day and should be back by the 9pm. I'm talking about telling the hotel, ranger station, resort that your going scuba diving, rock climbing, trail running, hiking, etc.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#168129 - 02/27/09 06:05 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: comms]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
"Hi there, hey my wife and I are going skiing out-of-bounds. If we don't make it back for some reason could you call the RCMP?"

Ya see, the whole point of what they were doing precludes telling anyone -- that wouldn't be fun.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#168131 - 02/27/09 06:29 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: dougwalkabout]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabou
what's the most effective way leave word with a responsible third party so that you will be missed in a reasonable time frame?

That's an interesting question. When hiking out of my "home area" it's a no-brainer ... I leave maps with my planned routes and timeframes highlighted with the wife and kids at home. Also, I leave copies of the same in my car parked at the trailhead.

But one vacation, at a hotel, hmmm ... that's different. On those occasions it's always the entire family that goes hiking together. I have not left word at the hotel where we were going in the past, but probably should. We are typically on high use trails so it's not back country wilderness, but still problems could occur. It would probably be a good idea to leave an envelope, addressed to your hotel room number, at the front desk with your plans written inside. Pick up that envelope when you return and hope that if you don't, the front desk might check into why you are checked in but not picking up your messages. Maybe even write on the front of the envelope "Front desk: Hiking plans inside: Please open and read if not retrieved by <date> <time>".

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#168132 - 02/27/09 06:39 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: comms]
DesertFox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 339
Loc: New York, NY
The takeaway lesson here for me is that, as practitioners of preparedness, we shouldn't be surprised that bureaucracy makes mistakes, we should count on it. The person primarily responsible for keeping you safe is you. Bad things do happen where you will need help (broken leg, animal attack etc.) but that is far different from just wandering off then suddenly looking up and relizing you don't know where you are or how to get where you want to be.

SAR is great thing and necessary. But they are going to have about the same success rate as the police department does at preventing crime and apprehending perps, or the fire department does at preventing fires and saving fire victims. Nobody bats 1.000. That's why we spend time on forums like this, and hopefully, practice what we learn here.

As for leaving your plans at the front desk or the ranger station, unless the organization in question has a procedure for that sort of thing, your information isn't going to survive past shift change. Leaving plans with family or frineds is much more reliable (well, depending on who your friends are ;)).

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