to buy, or not to buy...

That darned FNAR is haunting me. I am doing the yo-yo on my decision making.

Previously I have griped about my constant acquisition mode. Even my gun safe is darned near full. But I've wanted a 308 semi-auto high capacity rifle for quite a while, and I really like this one, but man, parting with another $1,500 + that I could put to use elsewhere to good effect, it is just tough to lay off. To make matters worse, it is a Browning style firearm, and I have a particular weakness for Brownings.

He loves me, he loves me not, he loves me.....oh the anxiety of having to decide!

Simple solution, just send me one of the other guns cluttering your gun safe and then justify your buying the FNAR as the Universe rewarding this act of kindness. It's karma, man!

-Blast, who could use a .22

Go check the prices on the LWRC SABR's and then think of all the money you'll be saving on the FNAR. All of a sudden it's reasonable and you're actually being thrifty.

That's the way my DW shops. I'm frequently reminding her that "I can't afford to save that much money".

I say, just go for it. If I could, I would.
He who dies with the most toys, wins.

Oh bother, now I have to give up a 22...

Blast you're not helping me, now I have two decisions to make. Which 22 do I give up? Maybe you should come to Denver (bring an airline grade gun case) and I'll just let you pick one. That'd take a load off my shoulders.

Repeat after me. . .

you can never have too many guns
you can never have too many guns
you can never have too many guns


and geez louise its a browning!


You'll kick yourself if you don't buy it --- and if you change your mind and find some other better widget to buy you can always sell. Although selling a gun is really against my grain.

Please post pictures of the new gun addition to the family!

Dangit! My neighbor just got back last night from a week in Denver. She could have picked it up.

I think you would have liked that very, very much.

-Blast

Buy it. I agree with CBP.

Ben,
Just buy it. Think of how jealous the rest of us will be! I didn't need another M1A, but to support the American economy I felt it was my duty to buy one, it was delivered Election Day but ordered 2 weeks before.
Stu

Groan...

I think that you could find some space for such a fine weapon. You know you want to.

Okay, I told the wife last night I was gonna forego buying the darned rifle, but this morning I woke up and the Jones is back. I guess tomorrow I will have to call and see if they still have the gun, and if they do, then I will plan a trip down after work and go get it, and if they have sold it already (only one in stock), then I will write it off and put my wad back in the top shelf of the safe.

Danged jonesin' is just too much to resist sometimes. Let Karma (or God) decide if I need it or not by either keeping it available or removing it from my temptation. It is outta my hands now.

You should have just gone and gotten it 5 minutes after you started this thread. I mean, you didn't actually expect to be talked out of it here, didya?

There was your answer...

I wouldn't be buying guns of ammunition just now as it is the top of the market. I would hold off unless I had some immediate pressing need or saw an incredibly sweet offer. Prices have been escalating over the last year and some driven largely by rumor and fear posts that are bouncing around the internet. There simply aren't any structural reasons to support the increased prices.

Which tells me that prices are due to come down as the markets saturate and the assumed worse case scenarios fail to materialize. Tight economics may lead people to sell off their stocks to cover their bills.

He who snoozes often loses!

Why bother trying

Yeah, I couldn't make the deal at the time, and couldn't get back there until tonight at the soonest. I have shopped the net for this model and the price I am looking at seems about what I would expect. It isn't necessarily about the money so much as I have been waiting for a firearm like this one to come for a long time.

However, taken into perspective, there's a lot of other things I could do with that $1,500 right now, including put it in the bank/safe. So if it is there, then good, if it is gone, not a problem either. I don't expect the price on any of these firearms to come down in the next few years, so it comes down to just a question of convenience or spending the money on something else I could use but probably don't need right away either.

Regardless of the outcome now, the pressure is off. Sure is nice to have these sort of choices still. A lot of folks out there I reckon are losing their choice.

You bring up a good point. If you buy a gun at a decent price you're only going to loose so much money if you change you mind and want to sell it. I've always sold higher than I've bought at but I've never tried to turn one over quickly either.

My vote (seriously) is to buy it if it's a decent price. I always see more clearly the day after a big purchase and either regret it or am glad I did it. In this case the financial penalty for buying and then regretting it is probably very small. I would bet that you're glad you did it after the fact unless you really wanted something nicer and are settling. (I've done that a time or two.)

Good luck & happy hunting!

Well, I just called the store and it is still there. Looks like I am going to be making a trip tonight or first thing in the am.

The price is right. I don't expect it will get any better any time soon. I am sure I could resell it quickly and for quite a bit more than I am going to be paying for it, so not too worried about that right now. I haven't seen prices for rifles like this one below the $1,000 mark for years, so no expectation that the market will fall, but more likely it will go up in time as the threat of more gun legislation ripens with the present administration. As this is not an impulse purchase, or a panic reaction to rumors, but something I've contemplated for a while, just never had the opportunity setup quite like it is now, I am reasonably sure there won't be any buyer's remorse. Had they told me it was gone, I would've shrugged and moved on. By making it a Karmic outcome, it really eliminates the stress of having to make a decision. I like being able to blame the universe for my folly sometimes.

I handled a recent purchase in a similar way.

I had shopped around for new safes on the internet and figured out exactly what I wanted. I went to a local safe dealer and, what do you know, the exact model/color/option package I wanted was sitting there in the warehouse. (I wasn't buying the garden variety/normal color so this was very unusual.) Therefor I HAD to buy it. Right? I hope so 'cause that's what I told the DW.

You will also want to keep in mind that your $1500 today may not buy a 10# of flour in six months. I have the feeling that the trickle-down effect of this bailout is going to be bad, simply because I think it's gone too far to stop.

Sue

So the good state of Colorado, in their infinite show of ignorance and arrogance, decided to reject my "application to purchase". Of course, they don't give any reason, and you can't just call them on the phone and ask. You have to fax them a letter appealing their decision. That's it, that's your only option. Having done that, I now get to wait two weeks to a month before I will get a written response. Hopefully they will not simply say that I was denied becuase they have a record showing I am not a resident of the state, or I am otherwise disallowed, or maybe not even tell me why, just that my appeal was denied, in any case I will get to continue down the bureaucratic path ad infinitem until they change their mind.

I wonder at what point in the process I need to contact the NRA attorneys and see if they will take my case? In the meantime, no more new guns for me, unless I find a private sale that suits me. Good luck with that, right?

I guess Karma had a different idea for me anyways. At least now I have another $2,000 sitting in my safe.

That's a real bummer but.... your header address indicates Denver.

Doesn't Denver still have their very own so-called Assault Weapons ban? If that's the case, that could explain the rejection. (and might explain the search warrant being generated in the meantime).

If you aren't in Denver, then nevermind.

Are you SURE you can't find a job in Texas?

-Blast

I am not in Denver proper. I live in one of the suburbs to the south. Apparently there's no problem for others to purchase these guns here as by the end of the day Saturday someone else came in and bought the thing.

So the question is, what records have they got screwed up now. I was able to buy an extended magazine shotgun in Florida in August using my Colorado credentials (I found out that a sporting goods chain with a store located in your state of residence can do the background check for out of state purchases as if you were standing in the store near where you legally reside). They called it in and cleared me in a day then, so what changed? I don't get it, but I am going to find out.

Yes, I could find a job in Texas. I'd have to get divorced to live there, as it would be easier to pull a good molar with my leatherman than to get the wife out of Colorado now. If I were to leave, I'd most likely head back to West Texas where I am originally from. Not much out there (anyone seen the movie "No Country for Old Men"?), but I know that dirt well. Everyone's got guns out there.

I wondered while you were in Fla for that brief time if you picked up a concealed weapons permit, if it would have helped or not. It shows Colorado honors the license, I wonder if they would also let you buy with the license. Did you ever or does Colorado have a Concealed weapons permit, I would think they might to be on this list and was wondering if getting one would help any. Worst case you could buy one in Fla or maybe Texas and snag a bear with Blast down there. They may have looked in a database of previous years taxes showing your location not in Co and rejected you, but not sure.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

FLORIDA'S RECIPROCITY STATES
Alabama (1,3,5)
Alaska (1)
Arizona (6)
Arkansas (1)
Colorado (1,4)
Delaware
Georgia (1)
Idaho (3,6)
Indiana (1,3,6)
Kansas (1,4)
Kentucky
Louisiana (1)
Michigan (1,4)
Mississippi (1)
Missouri (1)
Montana (3)
Nevada (1,6)
New Hampshire (1,3,4,6)
New Mexico (1)
North Carolina (1)
North Dakota (3,6)
Ohio (1)
Oklahoma (1)
Pennsylvania (1,6)
South Carolina (1,4,6)
South Dakota (1,3)
Tennessee (1,6)
Texas (1,3,6)
Utah (1,6)
Vermont (2)
Virginia (1,6)
West Virginia (1,4)
Wyoming (1,3)

They do have a CCW license available in Colorado.

http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/default.asp

•At this time, Colorado Concealed Weapon permits do not meet all the criteria to qualify for an exemption to the background check. That means even if you have a Colorado Concealed Weapon permit you must have a new background check every time you purchase a firearm. Out of state Concealed Weapons permit holders also need a background check to purchase a firearm in Colorado.

So much for that idea...

Falcon's right on about the CWP for Colorado and the non-qualification for the Background check. I maintained my Colorado residency for the past four years while traveling, keeping my driver's license and vehicle license and registration in Colorado at a valid address. When I bought the gun in Florida, I was still paying state income tax to Colorado in addition to using my valid CO license as ID for the gun purchase in Florida, so everything about that purchase was based on my qualification as a Colorado resident. Why is it, now that I am back in Colorado, I am somehow now no longer valid?

I hate this "We can't discuss it over the phone with you" BS. They won't even talk to me in person if I went to their office. Once they've made the mistake, you are automatically trapped in their bureaucracy. No accountability, no matter the impact, you just send them your appeal notice and wait for them to send you something back, eventually. Then all they have to say is that the appeal is denied, no other explanation is necessary on their part, and the clock starts all over again, only now you probably have to hire an attorney and go to court to get the records opened or some such.

We shall see just how far down the garden path I have to be led before I give up and start hacking my way around them and just find an alternative. If I was smarter, I would probably already have chosen that option now, but I am trying to play by the rules and be a good "model citizen" and at least try and get some value for my tax dollars by doing it there way. Most likely, it is an exercise in futility, but I am curious as to what cards they think they are holding. I suppose it is worth it to go a couple more rounds on the pot with them just so I can find out and pass what I learn along to others.

Our society comes up with these great altruistic notions and builds these little frankensteins and then turns them loose, with no idea what they will really do once they are empowered and have a life of their own.

Any chance you could visit the Sheriff and ask in person if they know what's the matter?

If they issued you the CWP they might have insight. My Sheriff is customer-service oriented enough that I wouldn't hesitate to try this way to learn the problem.

Yours might be less helpful of course....

So much for the "instant" part of instant background check.

The only thing the Sheriff can do is run a (public records) background check on me, which I can do as well for $10 or so. That won't turn anything up because if something bounced in my record I would already be hearing about it from others.

Nope, this has got to be an internal CBI problem. There's just no other viable explanation.

If you have a security clearance, the CBI background check may be hitting on the research from the clearance background check. I have learned of this happening, raising a "red flag" and causing a delay. Amounts to an error in the program that does the automatic check for CBI/BATF.

Check with the governing authority, that may clear it up quick.

Another issue: I have witnessed folks with an ID number from BATF that speeds their background check. Seems they have had trouble because someone stole their identity, and once cleared up it still slows firearm purchases. BATF clears them and the ID number resolves things much faster. (one to three days vs. months)

Well, I've had the clearance for 6 years now, and nothing I know of about that status or anything has changed, or I'd be dealing with issues at work right now as well. I put in a call to HR and security, just in case. We'll see if I get an answer from them any quicker.

I'll have to look into this BATF ID number thing. I don't like the notion of further self-registration with the feds, makes me feel like a mark. Also, it shouldn't be necessary; they've got over a 30 year history of me purchasing firearms. If they don't know who I am by now, how can one more number make any difference? I am certified to teach hunter's education, I apply for a hunting license every year, I pay over a third of my income in taxes to them, which they never seem to forget who I am on that count. How is it they suddenly seemed to forget who I am? Maybe I won't file an income tax statement this year, and see how long it takes them to figure out what my current status is.

Lame excuse for more bureaucratic BS.

The BATF ID number is more for situations where someone with the same name (or who stole someone's ID) has a bad past, and the innocent party doesn't. Kinda like two Bill Smiths. One is a LEO, and one is a convicted felon. The LEO goes to buy a handgun, but has been confused for the felon in the past. As such, the LEO contacts BATF and gets the ID number. This then speeds his paperwork. Something of an extreme example, but you get the idea.

When I was after my last civilian security security clearance in the past, my old military clearance (with all the "bell, whistles and abbreviations") actually made the puny civilian "secret" harder to get. I haver NEVER figured that one out.

Okay, I got my first response to my appeal of the state's denial of my gun purchase rights. Guess what, they have me confused with someone else, someone who got busted back in 86 here in Colorado for some undisclosed crime.

So now they want me to come down and get my fingerprints so they can verify I am who I say I am. EXCUSE ME!!! Why should I have to give them my fingerprints? They already have my SSN and my driver's license number, as well as my place of birth, my birthday, and a record of two other firearms purchases in this state in the past 3 years, one of them from last summer.

I need legal advice. Anyone know a good firearms law experienced law firm? This is ridiculous, frustrating, and is making me angry.

No accountability, no motivation to do the right thing, no reason. Once again, I am trapped in the system.

You want the gun, or the fight????


That is the question you must answer for yourself. The prints are already on file somewhere if you have a clearance I know, I used to be the MP that took the prints often times.

Personally, just blow it off and get inked (or laser'd), you will have to for your CHL anyway.

Then go have a Fat Tire and a good stoggie.

They won't accept just any prints, regardless of the agency that has them, they want me to go to a local LE office and have them officially printed on their records, then take them to the court and have the court say on their letterhead that I am who I say I am, and not the person they've mistaken me for. I have fingerprint records with other state and federal agencies all over, but none of them are good enough, just like having a current Colorado CWP isn't good enough.

I don't really need the gun, but I don't mind fighting on the principle if it means fixing a broken system for the next poor schmoe that gets the treatment. I have to admit, my expectation of actually accomplishing anything by raising the issue legally is nil. I will probably stay po'ed for a couple more days, then begrudingly take some time off from work to go do the "process".

I hope I don't live to regret my decision to move to Colorado. It hasn't gone quite like I wanted or expected yet. I've been hoping things get better, but I don't handle stupid too well. I get too much of it at work to deal with. This is about as stupid as it gets for me.

CMP wanted LE-taken fingerprints when I bought my 1st CMP Garand.

Maybe you could get another set and tell yourself you're doing it so you can get a CMP rifle?

I'm guessing you have a terrorist name like Benjamin Franklin and are on some terrorist watchlist.

Best of luck!

Yep, something like that. That's why they let me buy the other two firearms, only one of the other two could be classified as an assault weapon (Extended mag 12 gauge pump shotgun with pistol grip, 20 in. short barrel, and bayonet lug).

And here I thought Colorado was right behind Texas with gun issues!

Actually, it sounds like you've run into a bunch of bozos who want to throw their weight around.

Sue

Somebody likely mistyped something without bothering to check the information on the screen.
The supposed criminal you are supposedly being confused with is just their refusal to admit they made a mistake.
They would rather run you around than accept any responsibility.

I mean if this person committed their criminal act in '86 that was 20 years ago.
It would have been a problem before now for you if it was really true.

Of course, I could say it is your own fault for having the same name as a criminal

I am finding, much to my dismay, that Colorado is about as liberal/PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. as they come. Bozos, yes! If I want to deal with clowns, I would find a circus or a kiddie birthday party.

Texas is looking better and better Blast.

Benjammin, who is a native born Texican, and starting to miss them cottonfields and oil mules.

There's a very nice house down the street for sale...

You and me, think of the possibilities!

-Blast

Sounds like the start of a compound! Next thing you know, most of the members of this forum will be moving into the neighborhood.

Dibs on Christina.

-Blast, who will soon be suffering even more...

Oh, you are gonna pay if DW gets wind of that one...

Yes, the possibilities for the two of us, I can picture a Daffy Duck style mushroom cloud somewhere hovering over Sugarland in the near future, bwa-ha-ha-ha (evil daffy duck laugh).

Heck, I suspect BOTH Christina and DW will be coming down on me hard, but it was so worth it!



You say this almost like it'd be a bad thing...

-Blast

Oh certainly not. Ergo the evil laugh.

Hope you got more of them gauze pads, antiseptic and tape. Your backside may need it here in a bit, after some chewing gets done.

I have an AR-7 with your name on it, it shoots too low for me, but never fails to feed. Good little kit gun. When did you say you were coming back to Denver?

"You and me, think of the possibilities!"

"Sounds like the start of a compound!"

Yeah, "Alamo II"!

El Degüello...

Sue

Dien Bien Phu comes to my mind.

Funny SBRaider, Bien Dien Phu also came to my mind!!!! Must be an omen!

Since the SF guys at Dak To called it Dien Bien Phu II (or just Phu II), I guess the place would be Phu III???

Yes, and since I know that tune on my trumpet, anyone coming close enough to the compound to hear it playing is already too close.

My rule, Chances are if they can't get in, you can't get out!

In a case such as Bien Dien Phu, I believe that would result in a socrched earth policy on the part of the defenders. I believe there was an episode from the series "Tour of Duty" where a firebase was being over-run, and the soldiers resorted to falling back into a reinforced bunker and incinerating the entire firebase around them, greatly devastating the assault and demoralizing the enemy into abandoning the attack. The next day the choppers showed up and evaced the survivors out of their hole.

Getting out may not be a necessary primary objective, if you can destroy your opponent's will to fight in the process.