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#166192 - 02/03/09 06:44 AM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: Art_in_FL]
bilojax Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
Forced by events highly capable and motivated people have often completed remarkable feats of strength, toughness and endurance. Sometimes coming across the line half-dead after giving everything they have to give. At the same time others have died in the attempt. History is full of these death marches.


Very true, very true. Then there are the sadest cases of all - the ones who die after making it back. Especially in history, but also in some contemporary survival stories, there seems to be a pattern of people who make it back alive, but then die soon after. I think these cases show how sometimes the mind can drive the body to achieve beyond it's endurance.

That might be a good argument for pacing yourself and your group, if find yourself in such a situation. Feeling the urgency of the moment, there may be a tendency to drive yourself to your limit, without remembering that your mind might be stronger than your body. Even if you think you can go on, you need to ask yourself if you really need to, or if you can achieve your objective with a little more rest thrown into the mix.

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#166209 - 02/03/09 02:17 PM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: bilojax]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
If I were to load a dog, it would be with a harness and dragging something, either a sled or a cart. I have tried to use dogs as pack animals, and they just aren't built for it like a good mule is. But you take the same dog that struggled with a 10 lb pack and rig him to pull a load, and they can go like the energizer bunny.

I had a dalmation a few years back that used to literally drag me through the intersections on my bike, both wheels locked my feet down and dragging. He didn't care, he wanted to go and it took a while to get him trained to "mush" and "whoa dragon" (dragons is so stupid). His paws would get tore up a little, but it never seemed to bother him too much, and as they toughened up, there wasn't anywhere he wouldn't go with me.

A while later, I rented a Forest Service cabin up near Mt. Adams and we had a late season snow come in and close the road, so I loaded up a sled full of about 100 lbs of supplies and hooked his harness to it, along with a check line for me to control him, and he drug that sled faster than I could keep up with him. I had to whoa dragon him a lot to keep from getting pulled off my feet, and most of the trip was uphill. It was a good two and a half miles into the cabin, and I was so wore out by the time we got there I had to sit before I could unload the sled. I unhooked the dog and he bee-lined it for the stream, took a big drink then proceeded to scour the area nose down for the next half hour. I mushed him back down the hill, grabbed another light load, and mushed him back and he never balked, although he did whine a bit once in a while, probably from the cold and ice getting at his paws. He did sleep good that night, but next day showed no signs worse for the wear.

Dogs, like dragons, is tough, but sometimes stupid. You just gotta know how to work them proper, and train them well so's they don't go gallavanting out into the thules with your load with you chasing after. A sled is most often a better choice than a cart, wheels don't go over obstacles quite as well.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#166283 - 02/03/09 08:13 PM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: benjammin]
enolson484 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 20
Loc: SW Missouri
Interesting topic. In the Marine Corps, the standard, with 40 pound ruck, weapons, ammo, and body armor, is 3 mph with a 10 minute break every hour; 20 miles per day. Out of an 800 +/- man battalion, you'll lose approximately 30-50 Marines to twisted ankles, pulled muscles, dehydration, and spineless wonders. And these guys are extremely physically fit. The type of terrain and weather conditions never seemed to matter to commanders, the standard had to be met as the enemy won't wait on you to get to the fight. On my six man team, we'd operate with average 50-80 pound rucks (depending on who carried the radio, spare batteries, extra ammo, claymores, etc.) and, mission dependent, move an average of 10-20 miles per day to get into our area of operations, then roll into 24 hours ops for several days, then get back out. Very taxing physically, evening more taxing mentally. Your average American family is no where near that level of mental or physical conditioning. Unless a tsunami or hurricane is headed your way, or you ABSOLUTELY have no choice in the matter, I'd recommend staying put. I'm fortunate in that when I bought my property I deliberately looked for a location just close enough to a city to be decently accessible but far enough away to not be bothered, a year round running water source, abundant wild game from squirrels to a nice 8-point buck that I WILL get next season, and a few other property owners that are firm believers in looking out for each other. I'm surrounded on three sides by heavily forested private property and on the remaining side by forested conservation land. My farm road only has two access points, and the terrain is such that it can easily be closed off to outsiders, if necessary. Geographically, there are no major earthquake faults nearby, although a little one can be just as bad. The only major natural concern I have are tornadoes, but I'm prepared for those as well. From a survival standpoint, in the event of a natural or man made (short of a nuke) disaster, I don't think I'd have to bail. From a tactical standpoint, I have a readily defensible location with the ability to withstand a substantial siege for a considerable amount of time. Again, I will emphasize, I AM NOT A WHACKO running around the woods in cammies carrying an AK! After 22 years in the Corps, I sort of can't break the habit of eyeballing terrain in preparation for a fight. Old habits die hard...


Edited by enolson484 (02/03/09 08:21 PM)
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#166333 - 02/04/09 01:35 AM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: enolson484]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
General Joe Stilwell's march/retreat from the Japanese through Burma took 20 days.
He covered 140 miles in that time, about 1/2 of his desired rate of travel.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAV/is_2_90/ai_76736958/pg_1?tag=content;col1
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May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#166345 - 02/04/09 02:49 AM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: scafool]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: scafool
General Joe Stilwell's march/retreat from the Japanese through Burma took 20 days.
He covered 140 miles in that time, about 1/2 of his desired rate of travel.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAV/is_2_90/ai_76736958/pg_1?tag=content;col1


And let us remember, Those soldiers were not in good health any longer.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#166355 - 02/04/09 03:59 AM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: Desperado]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Desperado
Originally Posted By: scafool
General Joe Stilwell's march/retreat from the Japanese through Burma took 20 days.
He covered 140 miles in that time, about 1/2 of his desired rate of travel.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAV/is_2_90/ai_76736958/pg_1?tag=content;col1


And let us remember, Those soldiers were not in good health any longer.


I remember years ago reading about Vinegar Joe and this march through Burma. It was a remarkable feat considering the soldiers health, the terrain and weather they encountered.



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#166362 - 02/04/09 04:44 AM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: scafool]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
For fans of Band of Brothers, Easy Company (and the rest of the 3rd Bn) did a forced march, with field equipment, of 136 miles in 72 hours, which works out to 1.88888888888 mph. And they were in fantastic shape, much better than most of us I'd suspect...
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#166366 - 02/04/09 05:12 AM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: Sherpadog
Originally Posted By: Desperado

And let us remember, Those soldiers were not in good health any longer.


I remember years ago reading about Vinegar Joe and this march through Burma. It was a remarkable feat considering the soldiers health, the terrain and weather they encountered.



Actually Stilwell's group was a mix of civilians and military, and they had sick who had to be carried too.
That is one of the reasons his march is a fair example to look at for planning purposes.
He also had periods where he was able to raft his motley crew on rivers, was able to use pack animals, and he had resupply at a couple of points.

If it had been all military or all healthy it would not be as relevant.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#166387 - 02/04/09 01:46 PM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: scafool]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Then there's those crazy LRRP humps in Nam, basically a "run through the jungle". I need a good dose of CCR this morning anyways.

Weren't the Apaches reknowned for their arid cross country humps, something like 100 miles a day?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#166390 - 02/04/09 01:59 PM Re: How many miles an hour hiking? [Re: benjammin]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Boy that's a variable question.

Mind you, those boys in Burma were MOTIVATED! As were the Easy Co. boys.

Personal experience: about 2-3 hours with a daypack in fairly even terrain, 4-5 miles (taking it easy). With Boy Scouts 15 years ago, we could do 10ish miles in about 7 hours, in the Sierra Nevada mtn ranges.

Funny thing though, is I've done 13 mile runs in 2 hours in virtually the same terrain (Mammoth mtn area). The point being, group size and pack weight hugely make a difference.

I figure that the "3 mph" rule is usually a good estimate, unless really mountainous terrain.

In a BO situation, I figure 20 miles a day. Unless I run (go figure)

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