cnn story

Latest on this - over 1 million still without power, half in Kentucky. Some without water.

Here's my car, we live about 35 minutes north of paducah, KY.




I went to Wal-Mart today, and a friend that works there told me that for days, they have been swamped by folks from KY coming as far as 80+ miles away, looking for Propane and anything to carry kerosene in. They even cleaned out the store of outboard boat motor tanks at $25.00 apiece and only hold 2.5 gallons.

If they clean out the Kerosene remember that *odorless mineral spirits paint thinner* is just a bit better grade of Kerosene.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/weather/01/30/winter.weather/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Interesting to see that the Grayson County Emergency management communications centre is having to rely on 'cold war relic' 1970s corded POTS telephone handsets.

Are they really talking about more than a month to get the electricity power grid backup?

I guess everyone should take emergency planning authorities advise for a 3 day home kit as being rather hopelessly optimistic.

When Oklahoma went through this a year ago most folks had power back on in 3-7 days but there were some that went twice that long. Very few went more than a month.

One of the primary bottlenecks was the lack of electrical contractors to re-install the power heads on the side of homes. In many cases when the power lines were pulled down the power head on the house was damaged or ripped off entirely. The utility company is typically only responsible for getting the power to the pole nearest your house & they won't connect to an electrical system that is damaged.

At least in that storm, if you lost power, a three day outage was pretty much a best case.

I wonder how many people will kill themselves by running generators inside their houses this time.

With all respect, I would suggest a bit of caution before recommending this as a substitute "across the board.'

Glancing through the MSDSs of various manufacturers from Canada and the USA, there seem to be substantial variations in composition, flash point, and so on. These may possibly be regional variations reflecting temperature, humidity, regulatory rules, etc.

In lamps, I imagine one would just adjust the wick accordingly. In kerosene heaters? I honestly don't know. Combustion byproducts? Another good question to consider.

I don't have all the answers. This is just a "heads up."

I don't have all the answers either, but reading this
http://www.milesstair.com/kero_fuel_primer.html
might help a bit.

reading this will add to confusion
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/waste/quick_topics/publications/pss/pcp/PetroleumProductDescriptions.pdf

This statement from a refiner tells you a bit about the range mineral spirits occupy as fuel
http://www.agerefining.com/new/pr3.shtml
which is a narrower section of the range that is Kerosene.

Kerosene sold as fuel has a pretty wide range of properties depending on the manufacturer too.
It is wider than what is sold as paint thinner (mineral spirits).
Paint thinner is viewed as a more demanding use that requires higher refining than kerosene fuel generally does.

In a lot of Europe you can't buy "mineral spirits" It is all just "petrol" or their other local name for kerosene

You're right, kerosene is something of a witches' brew in itself. It's certainly useful to know that paint thinner can pinch-hit, with the usual reasonable precautions.

My main question, really, is the safety of paint thinner in kerosene heaters, which are often used indoors in an emergency and with partial venting at best. Can they handle the "high-test" stuff? Would they run too hot? Perhaps an experienced user has some direct experience to share.

I know that my old MSR XGK stove will burn everything from diesel fuel to stoddard solvent. I assume paint thinner is closer to the solvent. But that's an open-air activity, and with oddball fuels I would always use a well-covered pot. Diesel fumes won't improve the mac and cheese.

Meanwhile, I'm going to try paint thinner in my Dietz Air Pilot lantern, bought cheap after the Y2K bust. Might as well; I'd rather roller-skate through Hades than paint an interior wall.

P.S., don't Brits call kerosene "paraffin" and gasoline "petrol?"

Hi again Doug.

I was getting way to wordy again,
The Age Refiners link gave this answer



I won't burn diesel in a lamp because it soots the lamp up.
I won't burn vegetable oil in a lamp either because it crusts the wick up.
And anything that evaporates and flashes faster then Jet A is too volatile.

I do know that when I buy odorless lamp oil at a premium price it is the exact same thing as odorless paint thinner and burns exactly the same.

I have had problems with pressure stoves burning automotive type fuels because of the additives clogging up the jets.

I am glad you questioned my comment because I am looking at it and checking out if what I have been doing for years is right.
The result is I am finding out a lot of grey areas in how they name oil products.

(I wonder if Blast would be able to clear it up a bit.)

Since Wed people have been coming in from Kentucky (I'm just on the TN side) last night was almost as busy as christmas.

The most common requests I hear people asking for are
-Water
-Small camp stoves, propane and fuel for them
-C and D cell batteries
-Cell phone chargers
-Pay as you go cell phones
-portable electric heaters / oil heaters
-lamp oil and wicks
-Generators
-Small battery powered radios
-Flashlights

And we're pretty much out of all of the above (except for the prepaid phones and some chargers) in the 4 walmarts in the local area. I've heard of people driving down to nashville and alabama.

One story I read said this is actually worse than Katrina.

fuel types--for lots of information on lamp and stove fuels i once again direct people to Classic Camp Stoves.at spiritburner.com--links to and informantion on anything and everthing thing that will burn--in the UK where Coleman fuel is big bucks--$25 a gallon or more,they use pannel wipe for fuel in gas burning stoves.pannel wipe is used for cleaning auto bodys before painting..

I sense a baby boom a-coming!!!

I live in Lexington KY. The ice here is plenty bad, but not quite as bad as 2003, and we are not as hard hit as the western part of the state. Still, there are plenty of lines down - I think we had 125k without power out of roughly 270k population - trees are down on houses and across streets and roads all over town. Our city streets were treated pretty well prior to the storm, so were clear (of ice anyway) by the second day. Sidewalks, driveways and yards still have 1/2 to 1 inch of ice over snow, and are treacherous.

I lost power at home for about 36 hours - 2 days and 1 night. At the hospital where I work, it was 4 days, and at one point we lost generator power for a couple of hours! It is a rehab, not acute care, but when the generator went out, they started talking about transferring some of the patients out.

Like Blast in the hurricane, I have assessed my preparations, and was generally pleased, but did find some holes. As I have discussed here earlier, heat was a worry for me, in a townhouse. I found heat in the house was retained a surprisingly long time. I had about 10 "Duraflame" logs, but I did not use the fireplace at all. It was fairly comfortable at night, but was pretty chilly the next morning. The water in the hot water heater stayed warm a long time too. I have at 2 other stoves, (Coleman 1 burner and a 2 burner propane) but for this I used a can of sterno over a folding camp stove on top of my regular stove. It was perfectly adequate to heat a can of tomato soup, cook a grilled cheese sandwich, and heat two teakettles of water - one to supplement the warm water to wash dishes, and another for hot drinks the rest of the evening. I probably burned the Sterno for 2 hours and did not use the whole can. I have several kerosene lamps, plenty of food and batteries and did not have to use stored water because the water continued to work. I was well set for the recommended 3 days, and think I would have been OK longer, but it would have been rough with single-digit nighttime temps for the weeks or a month some are looking at and did experience here in '03.

My Coleman mini LED lantern was a tremendous help in walking from room to room, and was fine to read by - more convenient to handle than a flashlight. Overall though, it was a little boring. I may add a battery-powered walkman type CD player. Even better would be one of those little personal DVD players (I don't have a laptop), but I don't know what alternate power sources could be used. I have concentrated so much on long-term planning lately, I think I need a few more short-term food items - stew, hearty soups and the like, to heat and eat.

It was good to have a real test that was fairly short, to get a more subjective look at my emergency prep.

You know, they know what causes that these days.

I have friends in western Kentucky who say this is incredibly bad. Their town just got water back on when a generator was brought in.

I had not considered until their experience this past week that I now only have a cell phone so I need one of those battery operated chargers. Back in '94, when I last experienced a major power outage (rolling blackouts over a few days) I had only a landline.

I do have a car charger for my cell but some of these Kentucky towns are also short on fuel.

Off to Amazon....

Not in Kentucky.............











(Just kidding, half my family is from there)

Thanks to all for the information you have shared on this list. We are in West KY and were able to get thru the ice storm with little trouble thanks to the many suggestions I read here and on other lists.

Our power went off last Tuesday and came back yesterday (Saturday) afternoon. However, since we had multiple heating sources and plenty of food, we were set...unlike some of our neighbors. Some of the adjoining counties may not have power for another 3-4 weeks. The local areas did open "warming centers" but folks were told to bring their own bedding and, at first, food. One of the local radio stations started recommending that some folks consider "evacuating" south to TN. I understand FEMA and the National Guard has finally shown up and are handing out water. For the first few days, the local city govt was handing out one gallon of water per family (that's per family not per individual) Yikes.

On the get list is more led lanterns. Had plenty of led flashlights and oil lanterns, but found that the small led lanterns put out sufficient area lighting to get thru the night and the batteries burn for a long long time. The bright white light is a bit harsh, but for me that is better than having candles lit all over the place. Also on the get list is more led headlamps. The one we had was great when needing to wander around the house with hands free.

Water was a worry for me. Not so much for drinking/cooking, but for flushing the toilet (we're on a septic system)...me and bears might go in the woods, but my ladies informed me in no uncertain terms to figure out how to flush! Luckily, there was enough snow on the ground, so I filled a bunch of rubbermaid containers and set them next the fire. So, for next time I gotta plan for "potty water"...any recommendations on good chemical toilets?

I also didn't have enough batteries. Had enough to get thru, but my supply made me nervous.

Krogers got up and running fairly quickly. They had a generator, so had perishable food...and they would take local checks. Wally world did not have a generator and would only accept cash when the power was out. An emergency cash stash was not something I had yet built up. So, we were very lucky we could find a merchant that would take checks. While we had plenty of "food food", comfort food is nice to have, especially with kids (ok, with moms 'n dads as well.) That ran out quickly.

When you live out in the country with lots of trees, ya gotta have a chain saw. I didn't. Cutting downed limbs with a bow saw so we could get out was entertaining. I now am the proud owner of a Stihl 250, won't be dropping big trees, but it will get me outta the driveway.

I discovered that I CAN cook on a dutch oven, outside in freezing weather. It just wasn't a big deal. It took a bit more coals and a bit longer, but my 12" & 10" cooked fine.

Inventory (with location where stuff is stored!) is important....had an entertaining time finding my coleman fuel as well as some resource materials, both of which had somehow gotten moved from where I thought they were.

All in all, we fared much better than some of our neighbors for which we are very thankful.

--Steve

Gonna lay in a supply of sterno cans -- and use them to cook outside.

i know the folks along the coasts have a good idea of the area that would be effected in a big storm--tidal surge and all that..but these ice storms seem to be a major threat over the last few years.did anyone run across any maps that show areas that would be more prone to ice than just plain winter snow storms.here in Minnesota it's the cold and snow but i have not seen a real ice storm.

At this point you know more than most planners ever will Steve.
I am very happy to see you sharing your experience with us and others.
Nothing could be better to do.

One of the reasons I stored several cans of Sterno was because I thought it was safe to use inside, unlike camp stoves. After all, that's what restaurants use under chafing dishes to keep food hot? Not?

Also, to the one worried about his lady friend, things are MUCH better here today. I don't know what the temp actually got to, but 48 degrees was predicted. The sun has been out all day, and we have had massive melt. The ice was gone off the trees and bushes by the time I looked outside this morning, and except where it was piled up from shoveling, much of the snow and ice is gone now.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

From the Sterno people http://www.sterno.com/pro/pages/gel.html
* Ethanol-based gel is nonexplosive and nontoxic
* Odor-free, smoke-free, carbon monoxide-free
* Resealable and reusable: Packaging made from reusable or recyclable materials
* Consistent BTUs keep food in the temperature safety zone *141°F+
* Delivers hottest maximum temperature with no spills or flare-ups

From PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/638911
"A high school student became ill and later unconscious while working over a heating table set over three cans of burning Sterno. Measurements of 1000 to 3000 parts per million of carbon monoxide were obtained around and above the apparatus. Although the room was well ventilated there was incomplete combustion of the canned heating fuel because the apparatus was surrounded by aluminum foil, which resulted in poor oxygenation of the flame area. This case demonstrates the hazards of carbon monoxide poisoning from incompletely burned Sterno."

Carbon monoxide isn't always the problem. Everything that burns requires oxygen to do it. People require oxygen, too. Well-sealed house + Sterno burning + people breathing might cause some problems.

Sue

+100 on that!!!!!

It was only 1/2 of his family

I'm just getting around to reading this thread. I am in Central Kentucky, just south of Lexington, and find some resonance with some of the other Ky. posters. Our power was off 5 days. I was disappointed in myself that I couldn't immediately locate things I needed. So lesson learned. And as someone else said, I have been more concerned with long-term planning, rather than short-term circumstances like this. A short term problem is statistically the more likely occurence. But we made out OK. Even though I had to hunt down some of my "stuff" I had enough redundancy we got through the first night until day broke and I could put my hands on things in the light of day.

I have a 5 gallon bucket lined with 2 garbage bags with some kitty litter inside. The lid is a toilet lid from emergencyessentials. It works well because the kitty litter cuts down on the smell and negates the liquid factor. I would guess that you could make a bag of kitty litter and a bunch of bags last well over a week. No water wastage! P.s. store the bucket in the garage and there is almost no smell in the cold. Throw (well, carefully place) the bags out with your trash...voila! Toilets can be reserved for their original intended use: the dog's water dish.

Another material that works well for bucket toilets is stove pellets. Dual-purpose for many, neat packaging and easily stored, doesn't become outdated if kept dry. A scoop added to the base of a woodstove fire seems to boost the heat factor, esp nice when you've got a cold room and a cold stove.

For those with a higher 'ick-factor' and some water for flushing, put solids in the porcelain toilet and urine in the bucket with the pellets. Since the pellets are just dampened, extruded sawdust, there is no toxicity problem, and it does a very good job on urine odor. It's also compostable.

It's also not bad as an emergency cat litter, but some cats that are used to the clay litters may object.

Sue

Louisville got hit bad and most were back up within 8-9 days. More electrical crews were on their way before the 1st storm wave was over. There are still massive piles of limbs and trees all over Louisville. The city thinks it will be done with the cleanup in another 2 months. As you went East and North, it wasn't as bad.

I've been all over Western KY in the past month or so. They got hammered. Seemingly, entire forests got snapped in half. There are mounds of limbs everywhere. If you hike the woods, it is more scrambling than hiking...tedious and takes forever. Widow-makers (loose limbs up in the trees) are EVERYWHERE and will probably be a threat for years to come. Most of the hotels are full of tree care, arborist, junk haulers, etc from out of state. I think they will still be working in late summer. They still have out-of-state electrical crews as well.