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#120051 - 01/14/08 04:57 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: lukus]
Misanthrope Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Chicago burbs
+1
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#120067 - 01/14/08 06:07 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: Misanthrope]
lukus Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 170
Loc: TEXAS (where else?)
I just watched the video. I've always been a fan of Ray Mears, but I've never seen this video before. I haven't been let down, Ray has great technique for sharpening.

One thing about the base camp/water stone sharpening is he is sharpening a Scandinavian type blade. The Scandi grind has a single sharpening bevel on each side, all the way to the edge. Like a wood chisel, just both sides. Scandi's are usually a laminated steel, with the center core being much harder than is typical of most blades. Scandi's are sharpened like a chisel, he is laying the whole bevel on the stone and sharpening. Scandi grinds are much more popular in Europe and not so much here. Probably because you're sharpening the whole bevel, it makes the blade "ugly", you lose the nice polish. The harder center core and working up the slurry like he does also tend to minimize the burr.

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#120123 - 01/14/08 09:59 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: lukus]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
well, i have a Scandinavian balde, so will this effect it?
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#120191 - 01/15/08 03:51 AM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: climberslacker]
lukus Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 170
Loc: TEXAS (where else?)
No, I'd still use the diamond. About 800 to set the edge and 1200 to finish. The most important thing is to sharpen the whole bevel. You've got to take off a lot more metal, but getting the right angle is foolproof. Sharpening a secondary bevel will about ruin it.

Something kind of funny, after going through the whole polish and then stropping the blade, Ray used the edge of a car window to give it some "tooth".

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#120192 - 01/15/08 03:57 AM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: climberslacker]
Stretch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alamogordo, NM
Climberslacker, you didn;t confuse me with your link, I just can;t open links very well (especially videos) because I'm on a dinosaur dialup and I'm too much of a cheapskate to upgrade.

If you're really sold on the Japanese waterstones, go for it. Just remember, they depend on water and slurry, as Lukus said, and, while they cut reasonably fast, there are faster and cleaner sharpening systems..... diamonds are at the top of the heap, I think.

If I had to start all over, and were in your shoes, this is what I might try: I'd probably get a couple of Scandi-grind Moras - because I recently found out how good they are for the price! smile. I'd use them just until they lost their initial fine, crisp edge. Invest in a medium diamond stone and a fine diamond or waterstone. Then I'd make a strop and load it with green compound (chromium oxide). Then I'd practice on those, maybe use a couple of friends different stones, and see what happens.

You could really spend alot of money on waterstones and find they just aren't right for you.....or maybe that they're perfect. Anymore, for me, cleanliness when sharpening means alot, and diamonds are pretty clean.
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#120314 - 01/16/08 12:37 AM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: Stretch]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
stretch, thank you, I might just do that!
_________________________
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
impossible is just the beginning

though i seek perfection, i wear my scars with pride

Have you seen the arrow?


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#120407 - 01/16/08 04:45 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: climberslacker]
Misanthrope Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Chicago burbs
Lukus hit it on the nose...

One of my other addictions is traditional woodworking... My shop is filled with plate glass plates, diamond stones, jigs, grinding plates, oil stones, flattening plates, etc.

IMHO, for wood working tools, you can not beat waterstones for an ultra sharp edge. Norton makes phenomenal stones that are far more affordable than the natural Japanese or Belgian stones.

However, the beauty of waterstones is that they constantly reveal a fresh cutting surface, which allows for metal removal much more quickly than an oil stone. This same softness causes them to go out of flat much more quickly. As such, waterstones require regular flattening.

In the real world, I do not expect my field knives to carry the same edge as my fine chisels. As a matter of fact, I think it is is foolish and counterproductive. I expect my paring chisels to pare end-grain mahogany like a hot knife through butter. My mortise chisels are sharpened to 35 degrees and meant to be whacked with a hammer. You sharpen the tool to suit the work. I don't expect SAK to carry the same edge as my straight razor.

For field use, I carry a diamond hone, a fallkniven stone (diamond/ceramic) and small leather strop charged with green paste. Works well enough for me.

My $.02
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#165583 - 01/29/09 12:07 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: Misanthrope]
Stokie Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 175
Loc: Paris, France
By some strange coincidence I went into a woodworking shop last week when I visited my parents in the UK. There were having a sale on including the "Ray Mears" set of 3 waterstones (600, 1200 & 6000 + nagura stone) and the rubber guide feet thingy. For 45 quid it seemed a bargain.

The thing is I've got Benchmade grips with the thumb studs. I'm unsure of the angle and as such I'm not sure if I should take the studs off or not. Would keeping them on help me get the right angle to sharpen them or is it as I suspect they will only get in the way?

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#165592 - 01/29/09 02:02 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: climberslacker]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I don't use Japanese Whetstones myself, but thanks for the link to the video. I always enjoy Ray Mears.
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#165599 - 01/29/09 02:57 PM Re: japanese water stones? [Re: Nicodemus]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Little to add to what Lukus explained so well already. Just one (not so minor) point - natural Japanese stones seem to work perfectly for traditional plain carbon steel blades. But not quite so well for alloyed steels, let alone some hard stainless steels. Synthetic stones, ceramic rods or diamonds tend to be a lot better choice for the latter unless you don't mind having to work several times as long to get a good edge. That's also why Japanese water stones don't last long if you use them for sharpening hard, heavily alloyed steels.

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