I've got a few of Doug's little kits and have added, barely, an oven bag and a few water tabs in each. I've also stuck a SAK Classic in each except for one where I stuck a little L.L. Bean labeled Buck that was a promo freebie with the Buck 110 they have on their site. It seems like a perfect little lock back mini-PSK knife with a much better blade than the Classic but Bean doesn't sell them separately and Buck has nothing like this on their site. It's ChiCom made.

You know the size of the Ritter PSP so what would be the best tiny knife that would fit in the little room leftover in that kit?

I know all about carrying something proper in my pocket, on my belt, etc. I am specifically asking about something that will fit *in* this kit.

I have gone to the SOG Twitch II with the clip removed. Originally I had one of the knives and the clip screws fell out. Being impossible to find, the clip screws and clip were trashed. Once I realized the great fit, I bought one for each PSP and trashed the clips from the start. Between BOB's and Car Kits that makes a total of 10

I don´t know how much space is left for a knife in DR PSP since I don´t have it but if you are looking for a tiny knife I would recommend Byrd (by Spyderco) Starling. I carried this knife on my keychain and tested it quite a bit but unfortunately I have lost it not long time ago. I think I will buy the same knife because I really liked it.
Despite its size it has quite good ergonomics and can get the job done. I didn´t observe any blade play. It seemed to be built very well.
However another and probably better option could be Spyderco Ladybug (better steel and various colors - I would go with orange for PSP). But it is more expensive than Starling. Byrd Starling has very good price/performance ratio. (It´s around 12 USD)

I am not really knife expert and I haven´t tried many knives so maybe there are better options out there. This is just my experience with Byrd Starling.

This is my photo of it:


Edit: Spyderco homepage says: "Discontinued - Closeout Price." But it can still be found in various stores.

Take a look at the Benchmade Benchmite II:

I bought a $10 knife from Walmart for both my PSK, as well as my Altoids kit. I can't find it on the walmart website, but I think this might be it:

http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=138&brand=kershaw

Lockback, small folder, very thin. Probably OK for a few days use. I know that Buck also sells a 2" lockback for the keychain too, probably aruond $25.

Some interesting picks here. I am also intrigued with the Buck 505. Having two 501's, I know about the design. Solid knife.

Hint: http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic2051.htm

Unless you can't wait until March time frame.

Had a girlfriend that teased like that....

*drools*

Doug, you are a bad man. *laughs*

Doug, more info somewhere? The knife in a sheath photo doesn't tell me too much. Ever think about using a just slightly larger pouch? Your kit is great (I've got four) but having the room to add a condom or oven bag, a few water tabs, a button light and small PSK knife would make it about ideal.

And a Heat Sheet Bivvy, and, and...

Water tabs, check
Knife, check
condom, check
mini glow sticks, check
All fits in the bag....

Moved to a small pelican case and add micro AMK FAK, and Heat sheet plus Mg block and REI matches.

And, and...

I'll second the Benchmite. I obviously haven't played with Doug's latest toy but the Benchmite has been pretty good to me for the last few years. Not exactly cheap at around $25 though.

- Eric

I'm a little surprised no one's suggested the Gerber Ultralight LST. It's a real knife, very thin, very light, and quite affordable.

The LST Ultralight looks perfect! And about $11.

SAK Classic or Spyderco Ladybug.
Depending on the local knife laws.

One option that you might like to consider: Put your RSK in a smokers oilskin pouch. There is enough room left over for a small knife (in my case a SAK Farmer) and some cordage, spare lighter etc.


Actually I have got two RSK's. The other one is in a Witz case.

He IS a tease, isn't he!!!

http://www.equipped.org/rsk_mk5.htm (as previously posted here)

My goal was to design a "POCKET" kit. As such, you can only make it so big. The upcoming PSP+ (working name) will be slightly larger and have more components, including the RSK Mk5 and PICO™ Lite. Look for that this summer, hopefully.

Spyderco has discontinued the Jester but you can still find them at some places. It's about the same size as the Ladybug but with a more robust blade at the tip.

Doug, I was kidding about the ever increasing size. I do hope that the container the new kit will be in would be available separately so that one can transfer the contents of the PSP and add a couple additional items (those that are included in the PSP+). It would be rather silly to buy PSP+'s when one already owns the PSP.

In other words, sell the + items and case separately as a *completion* package so the PSP owner can expand his kit if he chooses.

Interesting thought...

Actually, we were discussing the feasibility of just such a package at OR this past week. There are some issues involved, but it is on the list of possibilities. We shall see, no promises.

Stumbled across this............

http://wildboarblades.com/linderpage5.htm



Or the knife from this set.

Regarding the Benchmite and other all metal knives I rather prefer handle not to be made of metal. Think about freezing temperatures in winter. When using tiny knife like this you usually take off your gloves. And even when using the knife with thin glove liners, unless the handle is textured the knife tends to slip in your hand. Doug´s new mini knife is a fixed blade so the handle can be wrapped with cord but you cannot do that with folding knife.
That´s why I also carry plastic signaling whistle and not a metal one.

I like a little locking buck knife, and a lighter, light and a few other items carried away for the main PSK

A good quality pen knife would be great IMHO.
They are hard to find.

Amyway, since most people I know carry a pocket knife if they carry any extra gear at all I think the best knife for a PSP is a good decent small pocket knife.
Not a combat, tactical or an assault something or other, just a small folder like your granpappy always had in his pocket to cut a string, whittle on a stick, or slice a chaw a' tabacca off the plug of tabacca he always had with him.
Something with stag or bone scales and well rounded nickel silver bolsters and good springy high carbon steel...

Think about what the people carried before and why. There was a reason a pen knife was called a pen knife and why small folders were often known as stockmen's knives.

In your grandparent's time people people carried small knives like that because they used them constantly, for everything from castrating steers and cutting binder twine off haybales to sharpening pencils.

It might be a good time to look back at the older designs that were dictated by the needs of people who actually used them a lot.

You beat me to it!

http://www.smkw.com/webapp/eCommerce/pro...=&SKU=G6050

The same reason why I haven't bought a Benchmite yet though I've come very close to ordering one already. An all-metal grip is just as bad in a hot climate if you leave it in the sun BTW. I actually burned my palm that way in the Sahara once, you'd need to see it to believe it... lol

I have a Alox Lumberjack SAK in my PSP


Two Alox Lumberjacks and a red Alox Farmer
I like the small saw and the combo tool. I find the saw handy for building shelters, tools and traps. I prefer the Farmer model more as a knife, but the smaller Lunberjack fits in the PSP pouch better.

Gerber's STL 2.0 makes a decent size backup to the SAK/SwissTool and CRKT M16 EDC.

Truth be told, I have a heck of a time finding them at real stores. Only online, and I'd rather not buy if I can't play first. Any ideas?

I was in the local Sportsman's Warehouse this afternoon and looked at the little Gerber LST Ultralight. It's nearly perfect as is the Buck Bantam 283 for what I had in mind. Both fit into Doug's PSP kit along with the water tabs and oven bag I've added to each.

Of course, as I'd said earlier in the thread, the likelihood of me having only that kit on my person without a larger pocket knife (I will typically have a mini-Grip as well as a Classic in my pocket and, often, either a Farmer or OH Trekker (though they usually reside in whatever pack I'm wearing).

Have not tested either the little Gerber or Buck but I know they cut string and such. What I really want to see is if I can make a decent few fuzz sticks with them and maybe a couple tent pegs. Pretty small knives for the latter.

Trust us. Just buy one of the Vic Alox knives. I recommend the Farmer.

The Farmers are cool little knives (I've got two) but won't fit into the tiny PSK's. For these tiny knives, I think a lock back or fixed blade knife is much preferred than a pen knife. I've got lots of pen knives (my grandfather was in the cutlery business) but they simply are not up to many of the tasks we ask of a knife outdoors. Also, my opinion is that knives are far better today than those of yesteryear.

Sorry Gramps, wherever you are.

My present PSK knife is a Scandinavian blade blank from www.ragweedforge.com If you can improvise a field handle
and a full tang isn't critical there are some very attractive options that take little space if you have the length to stow one.
I want Doug's latest offering too, but my state tax refund just came in the form of a voucher.

Since I haven't paid state taxes since 1995 and haven't gotten a federal refund since before then, pray tell me what a refund voucher is??

Does voucher also read I.O.U.??

PS Texas doesn't have state income tax, I am not delinquent. Instead, we pay thru the nose on property taxes.

The Galieter of Sacramento wont budge with the girlymen of our state assembly and there is no budget. So tax refunds are coming as vouchers ( IOUs) with a 5% interest rate if they ever become cashable.

If you go to a Victorinox Classic-sized, something like their Midnight Manager would give you an LED light (red) right on the knife. I'd rather have a working saw blade than a lock-back but I'm not sure you can get a SAK with a saw small enough to fit that pouch.

Chris, as an ex-Californian, I feel your pain. We bailed from the Tarnished State in 1994. We don't have the weather but Idaho is way more fun.

I am not even really sure if I would want my knife to come as part of a package.
I tend to keep in mind that these are just pocket survival kits too, so a decent disposable blade might be a fair option.

(Maybe a small Olfa style knife like CK1 or CK2 would do it. http://www.olfa.co.jp/en/body/kind/8_p2.html
These are small but fairly solid and they are resharpenable.
They might need to be redesigned a bit to make them more suited to our needs.
Maybe a smaller or thinner version.
Maybe a button type slider instead of a round nut on a screw, or maybe just an easier to grip and larger nut with nylon or something to make sure it does not vibrate loose when traveling in a car.
However, it is a fairly good and simple design to start from.)

---------
I am sorry if I am sounding a bit of a sour note here, but I am just simply addicted to reality.

One of the problems with going too small and with trying to do everything is you end up with gear that really does nothing.

I would rather have a good small pocket knife on me, in my pocket, than a fancy and pricey miniskinner in a plastic bag only intended for emergencies.
I am far more likely to need to cut a piece of string, strip some insulation off a wire, or slice open a pant leg than skin a deer.

(and yes, to most of us price does still matter.)

Just an afterword here:
Two rules I have learned about kit is to keep it simple and keep it functional.
You certainly do not need to be trying to figure out how to use gimmicky stuff in the dark when you are cold, scared and confused.
Fiddley stuff tends to break and lose parts too.
If your kit is full of stuff that dies or fails to do what you need it to do when you need it, then it is just junk and it does not matter how well it was engineered or how finely crafted.
Most of the rest of the kit does manage to be simple functional and versatile.

A good design is a functional design. Everything else comes after that.

IF you can find one the Victorinox Alox Lumberjack folder is perfect for use in the PSP. Smaller and lighter than a Alox Farmer, with a main blade, saw and combo can and bottle opener tool.

I normally replace the scalpel blade in my PSP's with a very sharp Victorinox Alox Classic SAK or a Alox Lumberjack SAK. I've seen way too many people cut themselves very badly when try to use a scalpel with cold wet hands.

I usually EDC a Alox Farmer SAK and a nice Bark River fixed blade knife with me in a pocket pouch.

It's important to reiterate that a mini-knife in a mini-kit is part of the last ditch "I've lost everything but this" effort.

I understand Doug's logic with the scalpel blades. IIRC, he states that he's assuming you've got a decent pocket knife or fixed blade knife on your person at all times. The scalpel blade can be lashed onto a stick (there's wire in his kit) if all else fails. My own thinking is that adding something like I have now to each PSP, the little Buck 283, the Gerber LST Ultralight, and a SAK Classic are all better choices than simply a blade (although in my Altoids tin kit, I have a single edge razor as that's all I could fit and what I had on hand). The reason I don't like the Classic or other small non-locking blade for a PSK is the risk of accident with the blade closing. It's not a good time for that to happen. While there's no first aid kit in Doug's kit, there is some duct tape and most of us carry a hankie or kleenix (or a shirt) so a bandaid can be fashioned. I stuck a couple alcohol wipes in each kit for wound cleansing or back up tinder.

From what I've seen to date, the little Gerber LST Ultralight is the most compact of the designs that fit's a PSK well although the slightly thicker Buck 283 has a better, more ergonomic handle. I imagine the blades would be of similar quality. A small knife like this could safely fuzz a stick, sharpen one, and with good knife technique probably do more. The new Ritter PSK fixed blade knife will likely be better still and only slightly more dough. I'll get one to replace the Classic in my last PSP.

One last thing, all of us know better than to think that a little PSK is a great solution to being stuck out on an unplanned overnight, especially in cold, wet, or snowy weather. However, I reject the notion that a small, *well-designed* kit has poor or useless components of low quality. Everything in Doug's kit and my own home-assembled PSK in an Altoids tin are of good quality and will not likely fail you in dire circumstances.

I think the main thing one has to do in a survival situation, depending on weather, is find shelter. Depending on where you are, that may be easy or hard (woodlands are easier than desert) and that's the one thing these kits don't address. However, the firestarting equipment is good as is the signaling equipment in the PSP. The cordage and wire can help with shelter building. The fishing kit is pointless but the additional heavy thread is not. A few other items are nice to have but maybe not as important as others. The fresnel lens could be a godsend to those of us who need reading glasses and don't have bifocals. Can start a fire when the sun's out too.

Most of us put foil in a kit like this but for fashioning a water container or cookpot, it's a poor choice. For a large, reflective signaling device, it might be pretty good as well as a wind break or base for a fire. The inclusion of a condom or, perhaps better, an oven bag for water gathering is doable (I've added an oven bag to each kit. There are no water tabs or any meds because he states he didn't want a kit with things that will expire but I've added 4 water tabs to mine. The knife was just really the last item I though should be in the kit. If we were smart, we'd clip the kit to a Heat Sheet or fold a 45 gallon yard bag over it and secure it with a couple of rubber bands. Then, we could even add shelter to a shirt/pants pocket kit!

CSG - Fair point about slippies, but my PSK is for genuine edc, and where the laws are restrictive, a sak fits that need. I pack a lumberjack, which gives me a good sharp blade and a small woodsaw.

I also (as per other threads) keep a space blanket or plastic poncho with me for shelter because it folds down to the size of my kit and attaches to the tin with rubber bands.

And I agree - a decent waterbag, puritabs and something to make a cookpot (I use a loaftin folded and hammered flat) are essentials.

It all makes a compact package that I can slip in a pocket and isn't dependant on me having anything else with me (I usually do, but that just gives some redundancy)

Another knife to consider is a small folder from AGRussell. They make 3 knives from 2 to 3 inches that are very thin, very sharp, and very lightweight. Their Titanium folders are not throwaway priced but not unreasonable. The 3" and 2.5" are lockbacks, the 2" is a slip joint.

Usual disclaimers regarding COI.

Andy

The good thing about the scalpel blade in the PSP is it will pass most security, is unlikely to be mistaken as a weapon and if you really need it you still have a sharp edge with you.
So don't be too hasty in dismissing it.

Anyway, I don't really count the scalpel blade as a knife at all, yet I have 1 in its foil pack in my wallet.
It is there in case I need something sterile for removing splinters and so on. There are a few other odd items in my wallet too.

Doug's PSP is a very small kit and meant to be that way.
It might not have everything, but it is small enough to be in a pocket and with you.


Odd as it seems anything I would think of adding to Doug's kit is stuff I already carry and use frequently enough that I would not want it in an emergency pouch like the PSP.
I want to just reach into my pocket and have it instead.

Would I want to chop down towering oak trees, defend against a charging grizzly bear or butcher an elephant with a pen knife?
Well hardly!
But if it lets me cut a seat belt, strip wires or open a pantleg so I can stop a wound bleeding it might be just enough.

Edit:
Ahhh, Andy. Those little titanium folding knives are so perfectly what I mean it is amazing.

Gerber used to make and even smaller LST, which I think was called the Micro. It is 2 inches overall with a 1.5 inch blade.

I grabbed a whack of them on a close out sale and they went into and onto every kit and keychain I have. Standard LST contruction and quality. I'm sure there are some still floating around out there...

Inexpensive enough to stash a bunch, big enough and strong enough, that you can cut what you are trying to cut and not yourself.

Jenks

Geez, that makes the Ultralight look like a chopper!

Yup, it's not big, but being a lock back and actually having a handle on it..., makes it sooooo much nicer to use.

My opinion, FWIW

jenks

The Gerber LST Micro was my EDC before I converted to the 'equipped' side and purchased my first Rittergrip.

It rode on my spare key chain (I carry spare car & house keys in the 'other' pocket) and got used A LOT. Its a surprizingly tough little knife, though it certainly didn't keep an edge as well as the Rittergrips.

The only problem I had with it was that the tiny lanyard/keychain hole didn't allow much more to fit through it than nylon string. I added a little loop of nylon string (epoxied the knot) for attaching it to the keychain.


Ken K.
(five Rittergrips later)

the bucklite knife fits the bill here