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#164712 - 01/23/09 07:48 PM Re: Heating the house [Re: Jesselp]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"One major cold spot leads me to believe there's a leak behind the kitchen cabinets..."

All my cold spots like that are the 4" holes in the floor to make room for the 2" pipes. One was large enough for the cat to get through.

Sue

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#164772 - 01/24/09 12:25 AM Re: Heating the house [Re: benjammin]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Dang Desperado, you took all the fun away...now he won't get to see what a pregnant wall looks like.


Being a home builder, you would be shocked at how many times I have caught someone at the Home Depot checkout line with a new window/door and the "regular" (high expansion) foam.

The insulating sub-contractor we used in the past once sent a new guy to seal a house for us. $32,000.00 worth of windows and door frames later he was looking for work and so was that sub.


_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#164774 - 01/24/09 12:30 AM Re: Heating the house [Re: Susan]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Susan
"One major cold spot leads me to believe there's a leak behind the kitchen cabinets..."

All my cold spots like that are the 4" holes in the floor to make room for the 2" pipes. One was large enough for the cat to get through.

Sue


Sue,

Seems like I remember you saying you own a manufactured home.

Generally, the manufactured homes have fiberglass batt insulation held in place by a black almost tarp like cover underneath. This "tarp" degrades even if the structure has been closed off all the way to the ground. Once it degrades, the insulation falls out post-haste.

If you can, you might contact an insulation company that installs the poly-foam spray on stuff. You will be amazed at the difference it makes over the first year.


_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#164811 - 01/24/09 06:03 AM Re: Heating the house [Re: Desperado]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Consider a strategic withdrawal. Castle dwellers of old often had layers of defense. As one layer was overcome they would fall back. Retreating to the inside of concentric circles reduces the perimeter and allows you to concentrate resources.

For cold emergencies you could select a small interior room, work to increase its ability to resist cold and make your stand.

Ideally the room would be built specifically to resist cold with added insulation, entry through a warmth preserving air lock, no windows or skylights, doors insulated exterior types in well weatherstripped frames, and water, food, minimal cooking and sanitation facilities located within the enclosure. ideally the plumbing in the house would be built to allow all the water lines to be drained to prevent freezing.

Less prepared ahead of time it is still practical to retreat to a large walk-in closet or similar small interior room. Insulation can be improved by hanging sheets and blankets on the walls and ceiling maintaining about an inch between layers. The body heat from three or four people in a confined space will often keep it warm with any extra heat. Candles, oil lamps, small propane or electric heaters can be used as needed but precautions need to be rigorously observed to prevent fire, and carbon monoxide poisoning. If you bring food, water and a chemical toilet with you there is no need to leave so the warmth stays put.

If you rig a small enclosure made of blankets outside the door heat loss can be controlled when the door is opened.

I know a couple who made it through sub-zero temperatures in an unfinished, unheated house by pitching a small tent, inside a medium sized tent, inside a large tent, inside their living room on a couple of layers of discarded carpet. They used a tiny single-burner propane stove to cook on, a chemical toilet, and a couple of candles for heat. They said even when the outside was fifteen below with a strong wind the innermost space was always comfortable.


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#164847 - 01/24/09 07:20 PM Re: Heating the house [Re: Desperado]
digimark Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 70
Loc: Chesapeake Beach, MD
The HVAC contractor who was maintaining our gas heat system would replace the thermocouple every one to two years as a maintenance item, and he'd hang the old one on the side of the furnace as an emergency spare. It's like keeping the best of the old tires as the spare when you re-shoe your Plymouth.

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#164941 - 01/25/09 02:25 PM Re: Heating the house [Re: ratbert42]
Steve Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 84
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: ratbert42
Be careful. Even in Florida, I've seen more than a couple house fires from people using candles as heat. Kids or pets and candles don't mix well.


Propane is relatively safe, especially the catalytic units, and various models of heaters span a huge range of BTU and capacity. A popular one is from Mr. Heater , which has an oxygen sensor. Coleman has a variety of units, too.

Many use small disposable propane bottles, but can accept a converter for larger gas-grill-size tanks.

Ditto on the CO sensor... battery-powered and AC-with-battery-backup units are available.

Steve
_________________________
"After I had solaced my mind with the comfortable part of my condition, I
began to look round me, to see what kind of place I was in, and what was
next to be done"

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#164986 - 01/25/09 10:22 PM Re: Heating the house [Re: digimark]
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
The pilot light safety device associated with gas appliances such as furnaces and water heaters depends on a self-generated electric current and a complete electrical circuit. The current is generated via a piezoelectric cell. When a piezoelectric cell is heated, it generates a current. The heat comes from the pilot light flame which is in close proximity to the piezoelectric cell. This current activates the safety controller to allow the gas to continue to flow. When this current stops flowing, the safety controller shuts off the gas. The design of the circuit is to shut the gas off if the pilot light flame goes out. In my experience, the main failure of this circuit is not the piezoelectric cell or the safety controller. It is the connection at the safety controller where the piezoelectric aluminum tubing screws in. At that point, the aluminum tubing screws into either an aluminum or copper socket completing an electrical circuit.

As many of you may be aware, aluminum to aluminum or aluminum to copper electrical connections are fraught with problems. When aluminum is exposed to the oxygen in air, it creates aluminum oxide. Over time, this oxide builds up, creating more and more electrical resistance. In the past, when aluminum was first used in house and RV wiring, this build up of resistance due to higher current flow caused many devastating fires. Changes were made to electrical codes to prevent the formation and build up of oxides where aluminum wiring or connections were made. Usually this involved the use of dielectric grease to stop oxygen from reaching the connection. For some reason, all the appliances I have serviced, even newer ones, do not use dielectric grease in the pilot light safety circuit. There is not enough current generated by the piezoelectric cell to start a fire, but what occurs is that the build up of resistence reduces the current flow enough to cause the safety controller to shut the gas off just as if the pilot light flame went out.

There is an easy way to correct this problem. Shut off the gas and the electricity to the appliance. Unscrew the piezoelectric tube from the safety controller. Use a plastic scrub pad to rather gently remove the oxide from both sides of the connection, both the external tube connector threads and the internal safety controller threads. Blow any residue away. Coat the threads with dielectric grease and reconnect the fittings. Turn the power and gas back on and relight the appliance as directed on the safety controller. Do not be concerned about disconnecting the piezoelectric connection, there is no gas flowing through this tubing, it is strictly an electrical circuit that is not in any way connected to an external electrical circuit. Current is only present when the pilot light flame heats the piezoelectric cell and the circuit is complete. If you have shut off the gas, there is no pilot light flame, thus no current. The only caution is not to cross thread the fitting when reconnecting. Start the fitting by hand and use a proper wrench when removing and reconnecting, not a pair of pliers which may destroy the fitting.

I have done this maintenance procedure to both my own and my parents’ appliances for many years. I have a furnace and a water heater in one home that are thirty five years old and I have never had to replace a piezoelectric cell or a safety controller and they are both still working. In fact, I have never had to replace either in any appliance I have owned or serviced! If you are qualified, you can use an additional pilot light, piezoelectric cell, safety controller, and or custom circuitry to generate a current for other purposes when there is no other electricity available or during power outages.

Some appliance service personnel know only what they have been taught or know how to make more money. It takes the same amount of time to do either. But to replace the part, they make more money.

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#165032 - 01/26/09 08:04 AM Re: Heating the house [Re: turbo]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
The normal expanding foam works fine for windows and doors as long as the foam has a place to expand to. High-expanding (marked on the bottle) I'd be careful with ALL OVER.

IE: Don't shoot an entire bottle of that stuff into the cavity between your outside wall and your inside wall unless you know it has a large void to fill... it WILL push out your wall. With that said I shot an entire can behind my shower to make my pipes stop vibrating.... (forgot to during install).. I know there is a HUGE cavity back there.

I also used it for my doors but there was no trim on the inside or outside so it just squirted out... cut with a blade, and easy insulation laugh

Also using it on my second story where the walls are / they sometimes left 1" between the wall and the floor with insulation exposed... ceiling that up, then doing the tiny holes with silicone II. Then that`ll be covered by carpet, and MAYBE baseboard if we can figure out how to put it on a wall that slants.. hmmm.

A side note... when the can is empty don't throw it on a nail there's still tons left. wink WOOPS. The junk pile was sharp.
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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