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#163805 - 01/19/09 04:16 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: Sherpadog
As for the glove issue, remember when you were a kid and you had gloves that were attached by a string? Just saying...explore all possibilities. smile


Sherpa dog makes a good point.
I do that with my heavy parka. The string goes through the arms and the little loop that is behind the neck for hanging it up.
I tie mitts on the end of the string.
If my fingers get cold, into the mitts they go.
If I need fine finger control the mitts can dangle, or even be stuffed up my sleeve for a moment.
Edit:
If you decide to sleep out and use the tent remember to brush the snow off everything before putting it inside and brush any snow that got inside the tent out before it melts.
If there is frost on the inside in the morning it should be brushed out before it melts too.

I like Be Prepared's comments about the ensolite. I carry a slightly larger than normal piece for sleeping on but I made it out of scraps from pads other people had wrecked. I taped the pieces together into a pad that folds flat instead of rolling into a tube. I kept a smallish piece of the scrap as a sit down.
I will still try out Sherpadog's suggestion of a fleece towel.
Maybe my old one size too small blanket for that.


Edited by scafool (01/19/09 04:29 AM)
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May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163812 - 01/19/09 06:12 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: oldsoldier]
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
Mdinana,

It is difficult to give you a decent recommendation since you did not say where and when you were going to in Alaska and for how long.

I am a refuge from the western shores of the Great Lakes Area. When I came to the Pacific Northwest many years ago, I did a lot of solo winter backpacking. What I discovered was that weather can instantly and drastically change. In the upper midwest you could dress for cold and work outdoors for hours with minimal layers depending on the velocity of the wind. We were especially concerned with what we called “The Arctic Express.” As long as we had a wind barrier layer we could still work.

In the Pacific Northwest, you are subject to “Chinook Winds” off the Pacific Ocean as well as the “Arctic Express.” Chinook Winds can initially cause heavy snow fall followed by heavy rains as well as rapid thawing. This can be devastating depending on your altitude, snow depth, and how you are equipped. In short, you must be prepared for wet weather, soft fluffy deep snow, and wet heavy snow at all times. Your equipment needs greatly increase to cope with these situations. With this increase in requirements, your pack size greatly increases.

I used an external frame pack with just a tarp and sleeping bag attached to the top of the frame for short duration low altitude treks but changed from the tarp to a winter tent attached to the bottom of the frame for longer treks especially at higher altitudes. I also included a good pair of snow shoes. Because of the weight, I quickly changed tactics. At first, I took a heavy clear plastic fishing bag that I would put my pack in with a stout cord or rope attached to the pack not just the bag and pulled the pack on the snow instead of carrying it. It was a lot easier. Later I purchased a cheap plastic sled that I converted to a pulk with modified chimney cleaning rods to pull it with. If the snow completely disappears, I can still carry the pack and pull the pulk with just light weight items in it. This was a big change from my midwest experiences.

I would recommend you really study the area you are going to and check with knowledgeable locals before taking to big of a plunge. I might also recommend reading “The Winter Wilderness Companion” by Garrell Conover and Alexander Conover.

Have fun!

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#163820 - 01/19/09 10:12 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: MDinana]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: MDinana

Until you move, then somehow you sweat (I don't get it!)
-15 degrees gets cold real quick when you stop for lunch.
You are overdressed. Switch to lighter weight layers while hiking and add more clothes when you stop.
- I could have used something to insulate my butt, besides my sleeping bag, during lunch.
A 2x2'' pierce of ensolite pad will help keep your rear warm and dry
-I was suprised how well the ECWCS pants did on keeping snow out of my boots and socks - the boots are only about as tall as a pair of hi-top basketball shoes
Gators are a godsend.

D) buy a new backpack!
O] I vote D
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#163823 - 01/19/09 10:27 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: Stu]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

As for where in AK I'll be, it's the SW corner, town called Bethel. I'll be working most of the time, so this bag isn't meant for any serious camping, just an "Oh crap my bush plane just crashed" type of affair. I don't know offhand if it's mountainous, but the town itself is apparantly a freshwater port. My concern is that the 56 surrounding villages are served by the hospital I'll be at, so I may go on "rounds" by plane.

OldSoldier, you hit on the head what I've been using on my hands. I'm just not as eloquent as you. Thin liners, the half-back gloves, outside mitten shell.

REI has a sale on gaitors. They looked about XL only, but I'll head back this afternoon and look over some more.

I've got a pair of windbreaker fleece pants around here somewhere. I'll try those next time instead of the layers on my legs. As for my torso.... maybe I'll try a light vest over my Nike "under armor." Or my soft shell - I've had it for years and still can't find a good use for it. Could this be it?

And yes, I did put on my jacket when I stopped for lunch! I was pretty happy that, besides my back where the packpack was, I didn't sweat too much. I was stopping all the time, taking things off and opening zippers. It's a pain adjusting for the weather!



Edited by MDinana (01/19/09 10:28 AM)
Edit Reason: clarification

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#163826 - 01/19/09 10:49 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: MDinana]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I still sweat under the pack, even when stripped right down to just a tee shirt.
It is one of those places that just don't breath.

I would still carry long underpants as well as the outer pants.

Quote:
It's a pain adjusting for the weather!


True, true, but it beats getting chilled when you stop.
No sweat is a major rule in the northern bush.
If you sweat you freeze.

And if you are in a plane that goes down you are likely better to stay right there until they come find you.
If the pilot is competent at all he "should" have a better survival kit on the plane than you can pack, and the plane itself is a valuable source of material too.

edit.
I have never been there, but it should be flat coastal plain with few trees.
Possible extreme cold weather from the arctic coming through the Bering Straits, and occasionally temperatures might go as low as 50 below or colder, but normal winter temperatures should stay above 0 degrees F.

Later:
I was just looking at Bethel on Google Earth.
It looks like it is 55 miles up from the mouth of a meandering river. It also seems to be surrounded by at least 30 miles of muskeg in any direction and over 70 miles of muskeg in some directions.
One of the villages it serves has a total population of 6 people.

It sounds like a great trip, take a good camera!


Edited by scafool (01/19/09 12:23 PM)
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May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163980 - 01/20/09 03:04 PM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: scafool]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
You definitely want something that will wick the sweat off of you. You need to make sure you open a zipper in the coat when building up a sweat.

Definitely sounds like you need a new pack. A pack with external mounting points is definitely key. Tough to fit all your gear inside a bag.

Just my $.02
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#164056 - 01/21/09 01:39 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: Mike_H]
EdD270 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 94
Loc: White Mountains of Arizona
+2 On getting a new pack. If your current pack doesn't have attachment points on it, it's inadequate and needs to be replaced. Consider getting one of the heavier weight Space Thermal blankets to put on the floor of your tent, under your closed cell pad. That will greatly reflect heat up to you and keep the ground from absorbing it and chilling you to the bone. Down sleeping bags are warm on top, but crush flat on the bottom and have zero insulating value.
If you stop, put on layers, but only a few. If you stay stopped long enough to get cold under added layers, you stopped too long.
Better to keep moving and not let muscles get cold. When you stop for the night, put on lots of layers after you set up camp. Setting up camp will generate lots of heat, too, like walking.
As for carrying stuff, the new pack should accomodate it. Or consider a haversack, shoulder bag, or whatever you want to call it, a possibles bag, for small stuuu that you want to keep handy.
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#164065 - 01/21/09 02:21 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: EdD270]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
OK Guys, I went to REI yesterday, and got a sweet deal on a backpack ($35, after discount and sale). It's 2500cc, has a daisy chain down the back, and slots for nylon webbing along the bottom. It's a good mid-size bag, probably could do 2-3 days in it if I had to.
http://www.rei.com/product/780621

One of those emergency tarp blankets is a good idea. I'll probably steal one out of my FAK when I leave. As for a closed cell pad, I realized my Thermarest was too cold in practice. Maybe I can Craig's list to find one.

Mind you, this isn't supposed to be a camping bag, but it's supposed to keep me alive for a couple days. Any clothing in there is just to supplement what I'm wearing anyway for the weather (which includes a wicking base layer) - an extra jackets, socks, gloves, maybe a pair of underwear. But I digress... and the final product will be placed for review on here in a few weeks anyway.

One of my big wonders is if I need my tent. After all, if I'm not camping, then why bring it? And if a plane goes down, then yeah, I probably should stay with/in it. This was the thought behind the USGI poncho and liner - something I could use as a lean-to if need be, or a wearable insulating layer. I'd really like the "woobie" from Kifaru, but it's a ridiculous price.


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#164073 - 01/21/09 02:42 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: MDinana]
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: MDinana
One of those emergency tarp blankets is a good idea. I'll probably steal one out of my FAK when I leave. As for a closed cell pad, I realized my Thermarest was too cold in practice.
...
One of my big wonders is if I need my tent. After all, if I'm not camping, then why bring it? And if a plane goes down, then yeah, I probably should stay with/in it. This was the thought behind the USGI poncho and liner - something I could use as a lean-to if need be, or a wearable insulating layer. I'd really like the "woobie" from Kifaru, but it's a ridiculous price.


Thermarest does make a decent winter one, ProLite 3 is what I use, but, it's still not really as good IMHO as a nice closed cell pad. (It is a little cushier though!)

As far as a tent, I am thinking like you are, that this is going to be a survival deal, not a planned camping trip. You can actually make a pretty comfortable shelter with a few things like a decent poncho, bivvy bag, couple trash bags, etc. Here's something I slept under a couple times with just what was in my daypack to show the guys that you could make yourself comfortable with just a few basics: (We had a pretty good rain one night too.)




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#164092 - 01/21/09 04:04 AM Re: Winter Wonderland Trek [Re: MDinana]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
15 is cold! Until you move, then somehow you sweat (I don't get it!)


You may find that just wearing a softshell jacket such as a windproof fleece such as Gore Windstopper or Polartec Windpro in conjuction with a merino wool wicking layer may work better than a hardshell jacket (unless of course your in wet sleet or whiteout blizzard conditions) as these tend to be much more breathable when physical activity increases. Putting a down or primaloft jacket on over the softshell during stops should keep you warm. Keeping dry in very cold conditions is the key to keeping warm but it isn't easy.


The Exped Downmat 9 may be what your looking for to insulate yourself from the ground in very cold temperatures

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/exped/downmat-9-dlx/

Although slightly heavier than the Thermarest equivalent it allows comfortable night sleep down to the temperatures you have mentioned. It is expensive though but is highly recommended for winter camping.

Quote:
I could have used something to insulate my butt, besides my sleeping bag, during lunch.


The Thermarest Lite Seat could be what you looking for.

http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=45&cID=4

The Lite Seat rolls up small enough to fit into a jacket pocket

I usually put all my down gear, i.e. Exped Down mat, Sleeping bag and jacket in a seperate waterproof Ortleib PD350 22 litre dry bag, which has been known to be secured to the outside of my backpack. But generally I like to keep these items within the pack itself for security. This ensures that the down gear can be packed away or removed inside the tent without any of the down gear getting wet. There are very few completely waterproof backpacks out there and a dry liner bag will most likely be required. I've found that it is almost impossible to get everything into a pack less than 40-50 litres that is required for safe winter trekking with the intention to stay out overnight.

Quote:
A "dump bag" on your hip is a good idea. It would have been nice to take my hat or gloves off for a few minutes and not have to carry the items.

Best to attach your gloves to the end of some cord and then thread through both sleeves of your jacket like your mum used to do when delivering you to pre school. Much harder to loose a glove this way in very cold weather. Loosing a glove in very cold weather can be extremely hazardous. Best to carry additional pairs of gloves or mitts because one pair will never be enough as the first pair will always get wet.

For very cold weather a non metalic handled knife or pruning saw will also prevent cold weather injuries to hands. Very cold weather can make handling of a Leatherman tool difficult if not wearing gloves to insulate yours hand from the metal.








Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/21/09 04:05 AM)

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