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#163155 - 01/14/09 08:59 PM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: thatguyjeff]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Originally Posted By: thatguyjeff


I'm a smoker and intend to be one for a while.


That's true dedication right there!

In theory yes, it should be better at low temps. But from what I remember, the butane/propane doesn't mix evenly, so what happens is the lighter(or was it heavier?) propane burns off first, leaving you with only regular butane left in the canister. For it's intended use in stoves, this was not as much of a problem since by the time the propane burns off, it's warmed the rest of the canister enough to make the butane vaporize. But for a lighter, where you are just using it for multiple quick lights, there might be an issue. I don't think it should effect the lighter any, since the stoves didn't under any changes for this mix.

For normal cold, not the kind of deep freeze that you get in MN, I like the flint stlye lighters, they seem to light a lot easier than the piezo electric ones. If it was much colder than that, I think a zippo would work marginally better than a gas one. The easiest way is just to warm up the lighter a little bit in your hands, if that's possible.


EDIT: Here's a link i found if you want to get all technical about it

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Mixtures.htm

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#163159 - 01/14/09 09:12 PM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: thatguyjeff]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
You seem to have the idea.
Propane boils at -42.09 °C, close enough to - 40°F that it does not matter. This means that below -40°F it stays liquid instead of giving you any gas to burn.

Even at 0°F we usually need preheaters to make sure there is enough pressure for heaters to work right. As the gas comes out of the tank the expansion causes the temperature to drop even more and it drops the pressure.
Have you ever noticed the frost buildup on propane tanks being used in cold weather?

As the temperature rises the pressure increases.
At regular temperatures you need something as strong as a propane cylinder to hold it because the pressure is so high.
Butane you can buy in a light weight tin can.
Butane and isobutane are trade offs of the fuel efficiency for the weight of the container.
By mixing a bit of propane with the butane you get some of the pressure of the propane, but it averages with the vapor pressure of the butane so it is still not really high pressure at normal temperatures.

So if you want really low temperature fuel you would need a lighter built heavy enough to handle the higher pressures at normal temperatures.

This basically means you have to warm your lighter up if it is cold out. Stick it in your pocket, tuck it under your armpit, or hold it in your hand for two minutes.
Whatever it takes to warm the fuel up enough to give enough pressure for it to work.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163163 - 01/14/09 09:30 PM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: thatguyjeff]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Would you think a different fuel would negatively effect the lighter, all else being equal?


Using the isobutane/propane 80/20% mix shouldn't damage the lighter or cause any safty issues but it would probably be a good idea to discharge the lighter during the summer months and use normal butane and only use the isobutane/propane mix during the winter months if using a cheap chinese made butane lighter. Brunton and Primus both produce fuel tools which are specifically used for these commercial gas canisters that have an even higher propane percentage of 30% so their own lighters shouldn't really have a problem using the isobutane/propane 80/20 mixture such as the cannister produced by MSR.

If you find that a flint ignition lighter rather than a piezo-electric lighter is preferrable then the Zippo BLU gas lighters look the business.

http://www.zippo.com/Products/Zippo_Blu_Lighters.aspx?bhcp=1




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#163177 - 01/14/09 10:37 PM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
IIRC, isobutane mixes do not work well below about 0F. This is why they arent used for winter camping. Usually, only white gas is (although I have got my meth stove going, it isnt very efficient).
I really think matches are your best option here.
_________________________
my adventures

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#163241 - 01/15/09 08:35 AM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: oldsoldier]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Extreme cold a friend who smoked had his ritual, you know the one, where you get out the pack and smack it down a few times, get out a cig, flick the bits off the filter, and smooth it all and replace the pack before lighting it.

In cold weather he would start his little ritual by placing his lighter under his arm beneath his coat. By the time he got to the point he was ready to touch flame to it the lighter was warmed up and ready to go.

I thought all smokers knew that one.

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#163289 - 01/15/09 04:46 PM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: Art_in_FL]
thatguyjeff Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 41
Thanks for all the replies and info!

At least now I know what I'm dealing with and can stop looking for something better.

Yes, we smokers all have our rituals. But when it's -18 F (like it was this AM - actual temp, not factoring windchill), I don't want to be outside f***ing around any longer than I have to.

Of course, if you could actually smoke indoors in a public place (any public place) in MN, that would help. But OH NO!

My employer doesn't even allow smoking on the grounds. I have to stand on the curb.

Quit you say? Nuh-Uh. I LIKE smoking. There. I said it.

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#163415 - 01/16/09 01:57 PM Re: Looking for a "torch" that works when frozen. [Re: thatguyjeff]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 574
Loc: UK
keep the lighter inside your glove or hat.
Quick Joey Small

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