This isn't necessarily intended for a survival type situation...

I'm a smoker and intend to be one for a while. I like the torch style lighters. I've had a few, some advertised as "storm proof" and whatnot. But I haven't found one that's freeze proof.

Here in MN, in the winter, my lighter is in my pocket and when it gets cold it doesn't work for nothing. I want one that works when it's been out in the cold for a while. Don't want a zippo or bic, etc...

Anyone know of a torch style, stormproof lighter that actually works when it's frozen? Or is this something, due to the design of the torch style dealie, that just doesn't work when it's cold?

Nope, but I suggest a shirt pocket carry placement to keep it warmer.

Its gas under pressure, so, as butane works differently at lower pressures and temps, there likely isnt any way, barring keeping it warm, that I would see it working, simply due to nature of the fuel.

Even Zippos can be hard to light when it gets real cold.
Bics seem to freeze at about -20 on me.

Like Desperado and old Soldier say, the only things you can really do are put it in an inside pocket or warm it up in your hands before lighting it.

You may try looking at backpacking forums or mountaineering forums. Maybe shoot an email to rmiguides.com who guide mountain climbs.

I have a high altitude lighter, I can't recall the name. Its a pressurized butane lighter with a clasp lock and some other 'novel' concepts like a button compass and waterproof seal. It's basically a suped up bic.

I have used it over 12,000 feet but it was also next to my body so it wasn't frozen.

Just fill your gas lighter with Isobutane/propane mix from a commericial canister

http://www.msrgear.com/stoves/isopro.asp

you'll also probably need the Brunton fuel tool as well.

http://www.rei.com/product/708996

This should in theory give you an additional 11C colder working temperature compared to butane fuel.

Actually you may find that the working temperature of the torch using this fuel may even be slighter lower as the propane content will burn of first at very low temperatures enough to warm up the torch to get the isobutane above its boiling point of -11.5C.

Sorry, I was typing without the benefit of my contact lenses when I wrote the quote above.

When I was an avid skier, I learned to keep a small pouch on a wide (think ice hockey skate) shoe lace around my waist or neck. Inside said pouch was ID, lighter and smokes. Lighter stayed warm, smokes stayed dry, and if I hung myself accidentally by the neck cord the ID let them know who was dead.

I now use a beak-away lanyard as I have no wish to be hung by the neck. Added to the aforementioned contents are cash and a USB drive with all family med and ID info etc.

As an aside....

Try shaking the lighter when cold, it seems to help. Or try to quit the smokes, but that hasn't worked for me yet either.

What about wind-proof matches?

Sounds to me like it has more to do with the physics/chemistry of the lighter than anything else. I kinda expected that.

So help me with the conversion here, so I can decide if this is worth my while. Theoretically, the fuel mix you're suggesting should work down to about 10 degrees F, if not a little lower?

Would you think a different fuel would negatively effect the lighter, all else being equal?

IF I remember correctly isobutane burns "hotter" than propane. (or I may have that backwards) Flame size may be different. I would assume BLAST would know.

That's true dedication right there!

In theory yes, it should be better at low temps. But from what I remember, the butane/propane doesn't mix evenly, so what happens is the lighter(or was it heavier?) propane burns off first, leaving you with only regular butane left in the canister. For it's intended use in stoves, this was not as much of a problem since by the time the propane burns off, it's warmed the rest of the canister enough to make the butane vaporize. But for a lighter, where you are just using it for multiple quick lights, there might be an issue. I don't think it should effect the lighter any, since the stoves didn't under any changes for this mix.

For normal cold, not the kind of deep freeze that you get in MN, I like the flint stlye lighters, they seem to light a lot easier than the piezo electric ones. If it was much colder than that, I think a zippo would work marginally better than a gas one. The easiest way is just to warm up the lighter a little bit in your hands, if that's possible.


EDIT: Here's a link i found if you want to get all technical about it

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Mixtures.htm

You seem to have the idea.
Propane boils at -42.09 °C, close enough to - 40°F that it does not matter. This means that below -40°F it stays liquid instead of giving you any gas to burn.

Even at 0°F we usually need preheaters to make sure there is enough pressure for heaters to work right. As the gas comes out of the tank the expansion causes the temperature to drop even more and it drops the pressure.
Have you ever noticed the frost buildup on propane tanks being used in cold weather?

As the temperature rises the pressure increases.
At regular temperatures you need something as strong as a propane cylinder to hold it because the pressure is so high.
Butane you can buy in a light weight tin can.
Butane and isobutane are trade offs of the fuel efficiency for the weight of the container.
By mixing a bit of propane with the butane you get some of the pressure of the propane, but it averages with the vapor pressure of the butane so it is still not really high pressure at normal temperatures.

So if you want really low temperature fuel you would need a lighter built heavy enough to handle the higher pressures at normal temperatures.

This basically means you have to warm your lighter up if it is cold out. Stick it in your pocket, tuck it under your armpit, or hold it in your hand for two minutes.
Whatever it takes to warm the fuel up enough to give enough pressure for it to work.

Using the isobutane/propane 80/20% mix shouldn't damage the lighter or cause any safty issues but it would probably be a good idea to discharge the lighter during the summer months and use normal butane and only use the isobutane/propane mix during the winter months if using a cheap chinese made butane lighter. Brunton and Primus both produce fuel tools which are specifically used for these commercial gas canisters that have an even higher propane percentage of 30% so their own lighters shouldn't really have a problem using the isobutane/propane 80/20 mixture such as the cannister produced by MSR.

If you find that a flint ignition lighter rather than a piezo-electric lighter is preferrable then the Zippo BLU gas lighters look the business.

http://www.zippo.com/Products/Zippo_Blu_Lighters.aspx?bhcp=1

IIRC, isobutane mixes do not work well below about 0F. This is why they arent used for winter camping. Usually, only white gas is (although I have got my meth stove going, it isnt very efficient).
I really think matches are your best option here.

Extreme cold a friend who smoked had his ritual, you know the one, where you get out the pack and smack it down a few times, get out a cig, flick the bits off the filter, and smooth it all and replace the pack before lighting it.

In cold weather he would start his little ritual by placing his lighter under his arm beneath his coat. By the time he got to the point he was ready to touch flame to it the lighter was warmed up and ready to go.

I thought all smokers knew that one.

Thanks for all the replies and info!

At least now I know what I'm dealing with and can stop looking for something better.

Yes, we smokers all have our rituals. But when it's -18 F (like it was this AM - actual temp, not factoring windchill), I don't want to be outside f***ing around any longer than I have to.

Of course, if you could actually smoke indoors in a public place (any public place) in MN, that would help. But OH NO!

My employer doesn't even allow smoking on the grounds. I have to stand on the curb.

Quit you say? Nuh-Uh. I LIKE smoking. There. I said it.

keep the lighter inside your glove or hat.
Quick Joey Small