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#164075 - 01/21/09 02:50 AM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: scafool]
jhlewis10 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 25
What would make it better?

We had a long fire 3-4 feet long, and dragged larger pieces of wood into it as they burned. We underestimated the amount of wood we would need. Tons nearby and was easy to collect with moonlight and snow on the ground. Good idea with the green wood.

The grass was near the creek bottoms, thigh high, looked like wheat. did not see any cattails or rushes.

I have a nylon tarp I made from Walmart, that I have grommeted I have used as a bag before, but for this I wanted to do with out.

All I had was a contractors bag, I filled it with grass but it kept the radiant heat of the fire off me, so I laid on it.

The 15 below temps the day before took care of our soggy leaves.

The wind was crazy and one thing we could have done better is channel it so it would not curl into some of the lean 2's. About 4am it switched to the North and the temps dropped. We got about 1.5 inches of snow, the snow the cold ground made for restless sleep.

Practiced self splinting a broken leg, Land Nav skills utm coordinates, Fire starting many times, using a signal mirror, snares, collecting and treating water etc. All those perishable skills you should keep up on.

Was a good test of using things I have with me at all times and what I would change or add.


Edited by jhlewis10 (01/21/09 03:02 AM)

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#164081 - 01/21/09 03:05 AM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: jhlewis10]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


Sounds like you did alright. You learned a lot and thats what these types of exercises are all about. Just remember, there will always be the "armchair experts" who will attempt to second guess everything you did...or did not do.

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#164099 - 01/21/09 04:48 AM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: jhlewis10]
snoman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 181
I think most make their shelters too large and "roomy." I've seen a few that you could sit up in. This isn't a tent. You need them snug so they hold in your body's heat. When you make the frame, make it so small it's difficult to get into, and then lay on the debris, like boughs and leaves - at least 3 feet thick, preferably more. Don't forget a thick layer of debris inside the shelter to lay on and insulate you from the cold ground.

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#164112 - 01/21/09 07:47 AM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: jhlewis10]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
JHlewis, just a few more thoughts.

One of the things I used to go to were small hippy style gatherings.
(a gathering of people, and a gathering of wild herbs, no money allowed but plenty of trading going on, usually more than 5 miles from a road.)
These gatherings were often in the spring and fall, depending on what was being gathered.

So not bitterly cold, but still cold enough at night that a person could die of exposure if they were not ready for it.
Usually heavy dew.
Chilly enough for frost some times. Quite often often wet and rainy.
A person would not be able to sleep well for sure unless they were well prepared for camping out.

We would usually have quite a few youngsters from the cities show up with no proper gear for sleeping out. No tents, no tarps, maybe a crappy blanket.

So we used to put up a tarp for rain protection throw some mats and blankets down to cover the ground and get them to do what we called a "love pile."

After the first chilly night they got the idea.
A mass of 10 or 15 bodies gave them enough warmth to make it through the night OK even if there was heavy frost.
The more kids in the pile all the better.
(Dogs give off a lot of heat too, but you end up smelling like them.)

If it was windy at all we would hang some tarps as wind protection for them.

At one Gathering we put up a large tarp tepee for the kids with a small fire altar in it to warm them, but it was not as good.

Not only could we not fit enough of them into it for a pile up, the ones we could fit in stayed up all night stoking the fire, bongo drumming and chanting.
Then they all wanted to sleep all day when it warmed up instead of learning about herbs by helping to gather them.

Both the ones who had been in the tepee because they had partied all night and the ones outside because they had stayed awake shivering around camp fires all night.


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#164118 - 01/21/09 09:21 AM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Yup, the late 70s, the 80s, and the early 90s were fun Big Daddy.

(Then hydroponics happened.)
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#164162 - 01/21/09 02:41 PM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: scafool]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 390
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: scafool

(Dogs give off a lot of heat too, but you end up smelling like them.)



...and vice versa smile
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Realize.

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#164253 - 01/21/09 09:23 PM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: UncleGoo]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Regarding reflectors:

I was out trapping cats in a wetland area, and came across someone's campsite (probably homeless). It looked like a canvas tarp that had been formed into a pup-tent-type shelter with one open end, with a fireplace in front of the opening. Instead of the regular flat log reflector, they had made a V-shaped reflector of branches coated with mud (each leg of the V about three feet long, or almost). The fireplace was in the V, the opening aimed at the opening in the tent.

I had never seen this kind of reflector design, but gave them full marks for creativity, and I suspect that it might act as a pretty good windbreak, too.

Sue

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#164266 - 01/21/09 10:13 PM Re: Debris Shelters In Winter [Re: Susan]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Odd that you mention that they were likely homeless.
I have noticed a quite a few good tricks the homeless people use.
For a lot of them cities are very hostile environments, even worse than a desert.
In the city I live in now there are a number of homeless people who sleep out at temperatures in the -20 and below range.

Some of them are true experts about stealth camping in the concrete jungle.
Not only do they have the regular bush craft problems coupled with a lack of equipment, they need to avoid attracting the attention of police who will hassle them or the violent punks who might kill them just for fun.
Count with that the fact that as soon as the city or the businesses people figure out where homeless people are sleeping they take steps to remove that option.

It goes far beyond just sleeping on a park bench or under a bridge, and some of their solutions are quite brilliant
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