Well, for a no-burn day we managed to have a pretty good fire-making adventure. We all managed to burn stuff up. It didn't hurt to have some good refreshments through out the day,too.

You might want to get your gang together to do the same thing.

The goal was to widen our survival imagination as well as to practice various fire-related techniques. Among other things everyone had multipe chances to experience use of all of the following fire starter and tinder combinations.

As fire starters:

Bic lighter
Strike anywhere matches
REI stormproof matches
9 volt battery
magnifying glass
Knife struck flint and steel
Blast match flint and steel
Bow drill
Hand drill
Coals from a wood fire

As "tinder:"

Newspaper
Fine steel wool
Wet Match fire stater tabs
Couglan fire starter tabs
Petroleum jelly soaked cotton balls
Dry cotton balls
Inside of road flare
Fluffed fragments of heavy brown twine
Dried and crushed up leaves

We were there for hours trying many different combinations. Pretty much everything worked except the magnifying glass, though not everyone could make everything work.

Newspapers aren't tinder.

Maybe, but they are "tinder."

So why didn't the magnifying glass work?
Was it too cloudy of a day?

Great!!..everyone here needs to try out all the stuff we talk about to see if it really works..someone in an old post said alot of the information in old--1950-60's survival books was bunk
and would never really work--you have the right idea--
did you take any photos ???

?

Great topic/great experience!

What tinders worked best (or even at all) with sparks struck from the flint/knife combo? I've never been able to get that work with anything other than char cloth.

-Blast

Flint/knife and Blast Match are both flint-and-steel spark generators.

The one-handed Blast Match produced are relatively huge spark shower for everyone and easily ignited fine steel wool, road flare stuffing, and newspaper "tinder", sometimes ignited petroleum soaked cotton. I didn't try or see it used to ignite the twine or leaf tinder bundles - next time.

The flint and steel we used was the flint rod edge of a Doan magnesium block. Users found it more difficult to use and the spark shower was relatively weak for most. Still got the fine steel wool going but stuggled to fire up the rest for our users. Next time we will try to have a bigger flint to strike and will also remember to try the magnesium shavings off the Doan block with both its own flint and others.

Does this match your experiences?

Thanks.

With a basic mischmetal rod I have lit

pre char'd candle wick (scrape some filings into a frayed
top)


steel wool


toilet paper (make a cone shape and scrape some filings into
it before making sparks)

Ah, a nomanclature problem. When you said flint I thought you meant the rock rather than a bar of ferrocerium.

Sparks from ferrocerium rods are much hotter and appear in significantly larger numbers than sparks tossed by a knife blade hitting flint/chert/petrified wood/etc and so are much more likely to ignite tinder. I was hoping you found something other than char cloth that would work with old school flint/steel strikers.

-Blast

Ahhhh, a 9V battery and fine 0000 steel wool, a favorite of my scouts for starting a fire, it's so easy, a cave man could do it.

An aa battery works too. Just tease out some steel wool to each
terminal.

No idea, but I'd say newspapers aren't tinder, they're kindling.

There's nothing like hands-on practicing!! At last last year's Boy Scout summer camp my son took the Wilderness Survival merit badge. Part of that involves lighting a fire three ways without matches. He used a ferro rod, steel wool w/ 9V, and a magnifying glass on twine.

Here's a picture of him (on the left) and his buddy just before heading off to a night with just the clothes on their back and a few bits of survival gear. They are trying to look like mountain men.



I was surprized how well the steel wool worked ... and how difficult lighting with the magnifying glass was.

Ken,

I thought camo was a "no-no" for scouting.

I'm actually doing a fire starting session with the scouts a few weekends from now. I'm going to demonstrate some different tinders using just a BSA Hot Spark to start.

Mike

Great experience indeed. Nice Job.



I assuming that you mean something naturally occurring? Now I don't feel so bad. I haven't had much success with naturally available materials either.

I am thinking Milkweed pod silk or Cattail fluff (the plant that is) might be an option, but haven't tried yet.

Working on it! I think the fluffed up twine fibers would go, but I cannot remember seeing anyone try.

Is the rod on one side of the Doan magnesium bar ferrocerium(sp?) and not flint, as I may have erroneously assumed?

How about the strikers on Bic lighters, don't they use flint?

When I was in Los Angeles over the Holiday period I was able to join a small group on a great "survival walk" with Christopher Nyerges (sp?). He had a chunk of rock that I understood was flint, and a handheld steel in the shape like a carabiner that was used as the striker. They put out a lot of sparks when struck properly and easily ignited fine steel wool.

Ferrocerium in both cases.

I have a flint/steel fire starting kit like Christopher Nyerges. Hmmm, steel wool? I'll have to try that though I'm still hoping someone might have another option. Oh, tinder fungus doesn't grow down here as far as I can determine so that's out too.

-Blast

Any idea where a flint-and-steel set like that can be purchased?

Thanks.

Scroll down the page...

Silly me.

Thanks.

FYI: "camo" per se is not prohibited by the Boy Scouts organization, but they do prohibit wearing of military uniforms or items thereof.
Old style flint and steel strikers cam be purchased at any store that sells official Boy Scout equipment, or online from the official BSA website. Prices are reasonable to cheap, and quality is generally good.

Hate to disagree with you on that, but camo is not considered appropriate attire by the BSA. Since "camo" mimics military uniforms (whether offical military issue or not) they are not allowed.

I found someone who had a very good article about it here:

Uniforming Article

It is also spelled out in the BSA Insignia Guide.

Sorry that this went a bit off topic.

Wow, being that hard nosed is how Boy Scouts lost some of
their access to long time held public resources. Calling the
Sheriff?

Origional scout uniforms looked like the military uniforms
of the time.

On foul weather campouts, the cotton uniforms are hazardous too.

I think the issue was the dad making a stink out of it. Just have to learn to play together... LOL...

The new uniforms are definitely starting to address the issues with cotton.

The old uniforms did look a bit like military ones (as that was a basis of the scouts) but they are trying to get away from that concept. And they never did have camo in the scouts.

Remember our scout motto, if you can't see it from space, then it isn't a proper campfire. LOL!

But seriously, some of the scouting program could use some more revamps. I would like to see more about survival. The only "survival" kit I've seen in a scout store was the You Can Survive, which is pretty much worthless. As Doug called it, "You Can Eat".

Hmmm... marketing potential for Doug. See if he can get in with the Boy Scouts to sell the PSK.

I built my first "official" fires as a Cub Scout and learned a few good outdoor habits as I progressed in Scouting. Those experiences were the springboard for lost summers in California's Sierra Nevada mountains. Most of the summertime fire danger prohibited open flames.

Coming at all this from a survival, primitive skill perspective is proving to be a lot of fun and not as easy as I thought. That darn hand-drill beats me up!

They still are uniforms. Badges, tie/bandana, sashes, epaulets, beret etc.
http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/boy-scout-uniform.asp

They look very much like US or NATO style military.
Just no camo so they don't look like survivalist militia types.

But this is straying a bit.

I remember some nice wool scout uniform shirt and pants we
used to have. My folks would have never let me take something
like that on a campout. For meetings only!

My initial negative reaction to this issue
came because as a young scout the best winter gear we could
afford was military surplus wool clothing and the occasional
poncho.

Scouts is great for scratching that itch kids have to try
out building a fire, using a knife or axe or 22 rifle but under
supervision.

Sure they are uniforms. You see a scout in uniform and you instantly know that he is a scout. The point was not wearing camo.

As an article put it, if you are wearing camo, you are trying not to be seen.