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#160751 - 12/31/08 10:44 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: MedB]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Civilians can also look for classes or seminars on Effective Mediation. I do mediation as part of my business responsiblity's and everything listed above certainly aids in the training for it.

If you can't get people to set aside emotion and rhetoric and communicate, then hostilities on either side will certainly escalate. Knowing the difference between a real threat and a posture is key when deciding what you should do in a less than ideal situation.
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Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#160754 - 12/31/08 11:10 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: comms]
yeti Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 203
Loc: somewhere out there...
Great topic. While I think $4000 and up classes might be way out of reach of most of us, there are other options.

You might also look for collaborative model leadership classes, texts, etc.


Edited by yeti (12/31/08 11:12 PM)
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#160769 - 01/01/09 01:22 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: gonewiththewind]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Definitely not something that today's schools are passing out. I remember some of the classes you speak of while thinking I was going to be a cop in the army. (The recruiter lied, but that's another story.) Some of the guys that rode with the 1/160th had those skills. Had I really understood what the 18's were about, I would have been interested. All I knew of was the Rambo end of the story. Now fat and old, I just apply those skills in business.

Did you enjoy the B4 identifier school? I thought is was harder than airborne and air assault combined.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#160774 - 01/01/09 03:17 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: NightHiker]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Here is one example from one of my law enforcement friends on situational awareness and survival.

10 practical, tactical tips for safe contact with gangs




By Scott Buhrmaster, PoliceOne Columnist

Across the country, gang activity continues to grab headlines, as illustrated in numerous articles posted through PoliceOne recently. In Chicago, for example, it has been reported that officers are battling an influx of several new and violent gangs to the city. The New York Times reported earlier this month that although other types of homicides have fallen across the country, gang-related murders rose a staggering 50 percent from 1999-2002 (the last year statistics were available).

Although strong counter-gang efforts by officers in Los Angeles and Chicago (the nation's leading gang center) have effectively sparked a downtrend, LAPD Chief William J. Bratton, however, called gang violence "the emerging monster crime in America,” during a speech to a national gang violence conference in Los Angeles this month.

USA Today reported that some experts attribute an increase in murders in the first six months of 2003 to an overall resurgence in gang activity in many cities. And it likely comes as no surprise that even rural areas across the country are not immune to gangs. The Charlotte Observer, for example, recently ran a feature article focused on the preemptive counter-gang efforts of law enforcement in a rural North Carolina area where gang affiliation has surfaced. In fact, some remote areas outside larger cities may even attract urban gang members looking for a place to set up shop in an area where police resources may be fewer and, theoretically, awareness of gangs and tactics to suppress them may be lesser.

Regardless of where you work, you will likely face the challenge of approaching gang members at some point in your career. For some of you, this may already be a daily occurrence. For others, it may be a less frequent occurrence but nonetheless one you must be tactically prepared for.

Here are 10 pointers, presented specifically for patrol officers, to keep in mind when approaching gang members.

Although these really just scratch the surface of the myriad gangs contact tips, they do serve as a solid foundation for your next gang contact. They also serve as a reminder that contact with gang members has unique nuances that can make a dramatic difference between well-controlled contact and a free-for-all. The better prepared you are to recognize them, the better prepared you will be to safely navigate street contact with gang members.

* Stay alert to your surroundings

Knowing that they attract police attention, gang members standing in a group on the street may hide their weapons in easily accessible, nearby locations instead of on their person. Hiding spots of choice would be those easily overlooked by officers but offering quick access to gang members. Good examples are inside wheel wells of nearby cars, on top of parked car tires, inside a nearby garbage can, under bushes or under a piece of garbage on the ground.

Another surrounding threat may be gang members—both friendly and rival—across the street from your contact, secreted in nearby alleys or in vehicles, driving by. To fellow gang members, your contact with their street brothers and sisters may be considered threatening and warrant distractive, perhaps offensive, action. To rival gang members, your contact with their enemies may be seen as an opportunity to attack while the enemy isn't watching – particularly if the attacker is looking to score points for courage (and stupidity) for attacking in police presence.

An ideal gang contact will involve three officers: a contact officer making direct contact with the gang members, a primary cover officer spotting the contact officer and a secondary contact officer scanning the surrounding area for threats. Obviously that kind of personnel isn't always available, but when possible, the three-officer approach is preferable.

* Pay particular attention to underage juveniles

Knowing that underage juveniles may face lesser weapons possession charges than older members and may be considered less threatening to an approaching officer, gangs may have younger members carry their weapons for them. When approaching gang members, stay keenly alert to the younger members, both for the fact that they may be armed and for the fact that, in an effort to impress older members, they may be more inclined to confront, challenge or act violently towards law enforcement.

* Pay particular attention to females

Under the assumption that officers approaching a group of gang members may make the dangerous mistake of disregarding females as less of a tactical risk than males, gang members may have females carry their weapons for them. They may also do so with the thought that male officers without a female partner or a female officer close by may shy away from closely searching a female in the group, particularly if efforts to do so are met with resistance, threats and ridicule. Be prepared to handle females with as much tactical caution and thoroughness as you would with males.

* Watch out for dogs

Obviously the presence of a dog should warrant special attention, but be aware that gang members have been known to train dogs to respond to non-verbal attack commands like touching a pant leg, pulling on a shirt or dropping a leash. A dog can be a dangerous, even deadly weapon. Handle its presence at the scene as such.

* Avoid showing obvious disrespect

In gang culture, respect is often worth more than gold and can make the difference between life and death. Efforts to degrade, embarrass or show outward disrespect for gang members will likely be met with strong resistance and may incite violence that otherwise could have been avoided.

Regardless of your true feelings, try to maintain an air of respect without alluding to weakness, inferiority or lack of control of the situation. A facade of respect will help you maintain control and may yield mutual respect that will prove beneficial at the point of contact and in the future.

Do keep in mind, however, that in an arrest situation anything goes. If, for example, a gang member you are arresting asks that you not cuff him until he is out of eyeshot of his associates to avoid embarrassment, this is an obvious no-no. Tactical soundness takes priority over all other considerations.

* Don't overreact

"Overreacting tends to make officers appear to be someone who shows fear,” says PoliceOne gang expert and P1 Discussion Board moderator Bob Walker. "Gang members refer to this type of officer as ‘scary'--someone who shows fear and over reacts.” Fear alludes to vulnerability and lack of control, which may increase the chances that combative members may confront you. However, be sure that in your effort to avoid overreacting you don't UNDERreact. Remain in control of yourself and the situation while responding with the appropriate level of action.

* Know your jargon and your facts…or don't use them.

One of the quickest ways to loose respect and credibility and to put yourself in danger when dealing with gang members is to show signs of ignorance to gang jargon and culture. Although communicating with gangbangers on a colloquial level may facilitate better communication, deeper respect, and may yield more information, if you're not up to date on all the current street terms, don't use them. The same holds true with gang-related facts. If you're not sure of what you're saying, don't say it. In the world of gangs and law enforcement, ignorance is not bliss, it's dangerous.

"Most street officers who are not specifically assigned to gang units are dealing with all kinds of different people and occurrences,” says Walker "They don't have the convenience of dedicating time to learning lots of gang slang and then staying updated on changes.

"Once you start using slang, you're opening the door to the rest of your conversation being conducted in slang. If you're not fully confident of your ability to speak gang language, it's better to use no slang at all than to toss out a few terms in an effort to be cool, and then find yourself coming up short later in the conversation.”

* Walk the walk

Never threaten anything that you can't or won't follow through on. If you say you're going to respond in a certain way if your questions aren't answered, do it. If you say action will be taken if certain behavior isn't immediately terminated, take it. And on the flip side, if you promise something that you can in fact provide in response to cooperation, follow through on your "agreement.” Another quick way to loose credibility and diminish the odds of future cooperation is to make shallow threats and meaningless promises.

* Pay close attention to clothing

Some gangwear is conducive to effectively hiding weapons. Things like baggy pants with deep pockets, oversized shirts, thick coats, and ball caps lend themselves well to secreting a variety of weapons including, of course, guns. Pay very close attention to the movements of gangbangers who may be wearing clothes that are especially good for hiding weapons. Also remember to search very thoroughly and cautiously when that level of contact is warranted.

* Use ‘interest' as a means of gathering intelligence

You may be surprised at how much can be learned just by asking with interest and waiting for an answer. Whenever possible, ask gang members questions that may yield valuable intelligence information without a demanding or overbearing tone. Ask about things like leadership, new gang members, upcoming activities, problems with rival gangs, shifts in territory…anything and everything that may prove helpful to anti-gang efforts. Be sure to take notes when reasonable and be sure to share the intelligence with your command staff, fellow officers and your gang unit.

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#160789 - 01/01/09 04:05 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: Desperado]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...The recruiter lied..."

You too huh???
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OBG

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#160809 - 01/01/09 08:05 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: NightHiker]
MedB Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 108
Great link NightHiker...

In a past life I helped develop and teach a course called "Sales Judo". And I have to say to this day, the principles are ones I use unconciously everyday.

And should any of you ever meet my wife, remember... we never had this discussion. Right? -smirk-

In a sales scenario (or other emotional situation), there is inherent resistance right up front. Confronting that head-on rarely works and often leads to unfortunate resluts. Instead a simple two-step approach works great:

Step #1 - "Block"
Like martial arts, defense is often taught first. The reasons are many. In this case, it's to get the subject to relax and drop his/her defenses. The fastest way? Make them feel heard and/or validated before proceeding. Emotionall speaking, you are getting them to drop their guard a bit.

Step #2 - "Counter"
Now, and only now, can you make your point. The best way is to make it a counter to their point. Not a direct rebuttal and hard-nosed, but instead using their force against them as it were.

For example...
Sales:
Attack -"Your prices are too high"
Block- "A lot of my customers think that at first, our products do tend toward the high end"
Counter- "You might find it interesting to know we actually shop the competition twice a week and publish their prices. Let's take a look"

Wife:
Attack - "You spend way too much time thinking about survival gear and skills"
Block - "I can see that. In fact, I do spend a lot of time on it. You're right."
Counter - "You deserve to know why I do. I'd like to share this article with you and we can discuss what seems reasonable. How does that sound?"

Clearly tone of voice, body languge and all of the other non-verbal cues need to be brought in here. But taking just a second to "block" first is a super easy and powerful communication technique.

Hope this helps,
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MedB

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#160822 - 01/01/09 10:46 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: gonewiththewind]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi Montanero,

I agree with your thoughts on tactical communication being critical in survival, I routinely use it both on-the-job and in my private life.

I also have taken some training in this field, it started with something called "Verbal Judo" which is a book and now instructional program taught by Dr. George Thompson. I have provided the original book to many people as it is an excellent everyday life guide and not overly hard to read/understand.

I then moved on to taking courses with the Reid Institute which were excellent in teaching Interview and Interrogation Techniques. These course are not cheap but even reading this book was an terrific first step in learning these skills.

Your spouse and especially your teenage children may not appreciate you developing your knowledge in this area of communication.

Mike

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#160838 - 01/02/09 01:19 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: SwampDonkey]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey
Your spouse and especially your teenage children may not appreciate you developing your knowledge in this area of communication.

Hehehe…

Effective communications classes: $5,000
Finally winning an argument with the wife: Priceless

laugh
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“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#160853 - 01/02/09 04:49 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: JCWohlschlag]
MedB Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 108
Some of the comments here have me thinking. Let me ask you all a question.

In your opinion, what's more important in a truly large-scale disaster/survival scenario...

...tactical communication skills from an authorative standpoint?

or

...persuasive communication skills from a cooperative standpoint?


_________________________
MedB

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#160880 - 01/02/09 03:22 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: JCWohlschlag]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...Finally winning an argument with the wife..."

Can't be done. You may think you won, but in a day/week/month/sometime, you will find out that you lost...
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OBG

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