Hello All. This is my first post after many years of reading. I will start off admitting i am a brand [censored]... That said does anyone have experience w/ Wilson Combats line of knives? I want to buy American and the D2 steel sounds great. The kydex sheath and tacti-coat are other pros IMO. I already own a Wilson Scattergun Tech. shotgun and love it. The price is another thing though. $250-$450 for a survival/camping/hunting blade. Am i nuts? I feel my brain and my blade are the two things that really count in a survival scenario. What are your opinions?

ps. Thank you ALL for the many informative and often funny topics and responses.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/kniveswt/wilsontactical/index.htm

I remember when Wilson joined the ranks of 1911 aftermarket parts. The 1911 is without challenge the most heavilly modified and accessory rich firearm in history.That said, My first 1911 was a 3 digit navy that NEVER failed to go bang with proper ammunition and good magazines.Ditto my Remington DCM or the ones carried on active service .Wilson has a good reputation with the 1911 crowd.
That said, I really have to ask, given my plain vanilla 1911s went bang what a $250 knife with Wilson on it will offer over any number of knives at less cost will?
My most important survival item is my sleeping bag. If you have one, curl up in it and sleep on this.

Welcome Newguy!!!

The datails:
"The Model 2 is our most requested knife by military personnel. It features a hollow ground D2 blade for maximum durability. The versatile design allows it to be more than just a fighting knife. The Model 2 is available with a 4”, 5” or 6” blade to fit most all needs. It doubles as an excellent all around knife, capable of most all tasks suited for a knife. The micarta handles are removable with a hex key for maintenance or refinishing. The kydex sheath has a Tek-Lok attachment that allows you to attach the knife to virtually anything. The hole spacing in the sheath allows it to be attached to a Safariland 6004 drop-leg holster. It is an essential piece of kit for demanding professionals." Wilson Combat

Wilson seems to use D2 steel exclusively. Why? The Kydex sheath allowing the knife to be carried upside down on the body or while hanging upside down seems ideal. And the Tacticoat finish i have on my Scattergun is just awesome. Also MADE IN THE U.S.A. I don't mind paying an american to do the job right. I read that they make knives w/o the use of jigs. No stamping and grinding by Indonesian children. Anyway i guess i am looking for the reasons why i shouldn't go this route.

This is the knife i can't stop lusting after
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/kniveswt/wilsontactical/model2.asp

Thanks OBG!!!

HI Dropout!

I am not familiar with the brand.
I looked at their page.

I like the look of their model 6.
You are right about them being expensive. Those prices are not as high as Randall made knives, but still.
I buy knives to use, abuse and lose. Not as trade items for the collectors market.

I like knives to hold a good edge, be strong enough not to break, small and light enough to carry, and to be cheap enough that I can have a spare or two.


(Let me ask if you are spending the money for "Machismo?")

You really have to ask yourself, what will you do with that knife? What do you need it for? What exactly can that knife do that some cheaper one can't?

Having made a few blades as an amateur in my time, I'm all for supporting fine products by custom knifemakers. You sound like someone looking for a utility knife however, not a knife collector.

I have no direct experience with Wilson knives. The ones on their website look nice but in practical terms, I doubt they're the optimal choice. At least some of them are basically the sharpened crowbar type - very beefy blades (1/4") that make semi-decent prybars but not necessarily great (or even satisfactory) cutters due to the overly thick profile. If you need a crowbar you can get a much better one for $10. As far as a great no-nonsense hunting/survival knife you can get a good old USMC Kabar for under $50. It will do all that is required of a good knife and is likely a better cutter because of its slimmer blade profile.

Again, this is not meant to disparage the brand that caught your attention. It's just that from the user point of view I don't believe it's worth spending anything over $100 at most on a survival/utility knife. You simply will not get enough return for the money. If you want a Wilson knife because of the looks, workmanship, collector value or whatever, go for it if you have some bucks to spare. But you have to realize that as a working tool it will only be marginally better in practice (if at all) than some much cheaper knives.

P.S.: Well, looks like Mr. Kavanaugh has already made a few identical points while I was writing my post... At least it goes to show a few other folks may share my opinion.

Hey Scafool

No, this choice is ego free. I have the benchmade mini-ruckus and love it's style and performance. ($225 at the time of purchase...). I just love a good tool. I tend to hang on to my stuff so i guess we have different philosophy there. I work for a company that install/de-installs over-sized and/or heavy art/artifacts...

http://www.methodsandmaterials.com/

The job is very stressful and we tend to use materials and tools of the finest quality. Redundancy is our friend. I guess my exposure to moving ancient objects with modern equipment has made me believe in quality over all else. I think my choice is more based on being a wimp and not believing price follows quality...

I like Wilson's products in general. I used to own one of their high end 1911 competition guns and it was superb. Sooo I understand how a Wilson fan would be willing to pay a premium to support the company.

However knives such as the recently discussed RAT products seem to offer a lot at a significantly lower price. If someone more knowledgeable about knives knows differently please hop in and correct me.

The Wilson Model 2 - Tactical Fighter in a plain 6" Tacti-Kote finish is $340.

The RAT Cutlery RC-6 looks roughly comparable for $200.

http://www.ratcutlery.com/rc-6.htm

First, Welcome aboard.

Second, I'll never talk someone off a ledge when it comes to spending money on a 'want', as long as they can afford it. If you have the budget, do it.

I couldn't tell you how many times I have paid more for an item because I liked the color, how the zipper pull felt, the marginally improved detailing or whatever. For example, a compass is a compass right, it points North at rest and whatever direction your going the remainder of the time, (hopefully haha). So why do we fiddle over the little details?

Can you find a cheaper alternative knife that does the same thing so you can put the money into something else like a great head lamp, couple of maps, some food stuffs for emergency's? Absolutely.

We've all bought knives based on a recommendation or because we thought they were cool. I have a whole drawer full of them. And almost never used. In my EDC I rotate a 15 year old Swiss Champ, a few year old RSK Mk1 and a LM Kick. Around the house I tend to have an old stainless steel GI utility knife in my pocket. All see way more use than my fixed blades and cheaper to boot, (well the RSK is more $ but...well I prove. But its a great knife!)

Haha. Welcome aboard.

The product line looks good, and those higher grade knives have a really nice touch, but it seems they are rather pricey ($2,400 for a limited grade?)

For what you'd spend to get a "Tactical" grade Wilson, I would recommend checking out some of the Busse family of knives (big groan from the crowd, here comes the schpiel).

Busse are also american made, using a rather proprietary alloy that has been quite well tested by the industry. They have a forum page at Bladeforums as well as their own website. Their big drawback is never having stock to sell. As soon as they make a production run, they sell out quickly.

The reason I advocate this manufacturer is due to my experience abroad, and the fact that I own several of their blades and have put them through the wringer and they have performed better than expected. Combine that with an unconditional guarantee (you break it, they will repair or replace it for the cost of shipping) and you have yourself a deal that cannot be beat for the money you spend. The mainline of Busse knives are the high end, they also make lower grade but quite functional models under their Scrapyard and Swamp Rat brands, also with the same guarantee.

In the world of knives, I've come to realize that pretty much any knife at any price range can be considered adequate and satisfactory for the money you pay, more or less. There are ripoffs at any price range, so caveat emptor, but even an inexpensive Mora, which can be had for less than $20 these days, is a quality knife in the proper context. I wouldn't spend $200 on any Mora, but for what they charge, you do get your money's worth. In my opinion, D2 is not the end all, be all of knife steels, any more than Busse's INFI alloy would be, or for that matter 1055 or 1080 or 420 or 440. All have their place somewhere, with advantages and disadvantages. Designs also vary considerably, and Busse knives are almost always big brutish knives that aren't really made for delicate work. They are what I would call combat grade, if such a term could be so singularly descriptive.

As to your question, I have no experience with Wilson knives at all. From what I saw on the website, they look good, and would seem to be a quality made knife. If you do acquire one, please share with us your observations and opinions. As for me, I know what I like, so I doubt I would seek to get a Wilson myself. You never know what deal may come around the corner, though...

BTW, welcome to the forum. Hope to see you post more.

OK Dropout, It was a fair question and a good answer.

I work as a carpenter and sharp edges are part of the business.
I will pay top money for top of the line tools because I make my living with them.
At the same time I keep an eye out that those dollars are buying actual tool value.

I do not really think of tools as disposable items.

Knives are tools.

Lose them:
Yup, lost again. It seems that now and then tools grow legs and wander off. I have also dropped them into rivers, had them "Borrowed", had a strange dog run off with one, had my luggage with them in it disappear, forgot them and misplaced them.

Inexpensive enough:
Yup.
I like them inexpensive enough that I can have a few spares around.
Also inexpensive enough that if some lowlife thieving ignorant person steals it I am not really upset, maybe inexpensive enough that they don't steal it and leave it right where it was.
....
So, How much are you paying for a six ounce piece of steel and why?

Not saying you should not buy, just that you should know why you are buying it.

Larger fixed blade knives have been on my mind since last Sunday afternoon when I happened to catch a one-hour show about the USMC winter survival training on the Military Channel (don't know that real name of the training or the place they were at).

I won't hijack the thread with too many details of what I thought was a really cool show, but each of the marines in training were carrying:

-- a multitool - LM Wave? They were using saw and file the most
-- COMBAT KNIFE - looked like a black-handled Kabar
-- canteen
-- metal canteen cup
-- small rope - maybe paracord
-- snowshoes - looked home-made - out of rope and maybe 2" thick bent branches
-- snow shovel w/ removable handle
-- sleeping bag w/ liner
-- bivy sack - camo, not sure what kind
-- ferro rod, but ONLY provided after they'd already started a fire by friction using a bow
-- at some point they showed a dark colored towel or similar cloth and a largish rubber collapsable bucket. They used the towel to hold & melt snow and the bucket to catch the water).

1. It renewed my faith in the utility of the multitool, esp the saw. They used the file and knives to smooth off surfaces for clubs and other tools.

2. It made me rethink about the utility/need of a longer heavier chopper type blade.

They used the multitool to do fine cutting on traps & deadfalls and such. They cut branches for fire & tools (club, slingshot, proximity alarm together with the snow shovel.

They used the combat knife for chopping, prying bark off of dead cedar trees for kindling, and for digging out the burned end of a short log to make a bowl (maybe 9-10" across and closed LM multitool deep). Several used the carbon dust to soothe nausea brought about by hunger/nerves.

Several folks got injured while working to pull firewood off of large dead trees (shredded hands & hits to heads). They would have been soo much better off with a larger saw and leather gloves. Oh ... its so hard not to hijaack the thread.

They each butchered a rabbit on the first day. Much to the happiness of my daughter they didn't show it, but I would have really liked to have seen more details of how they did it ... for example, which knives did they choose to use? They ate just about every part - including the eyes on the first day. Later in the week I noticed some of them with very furry little pouches. Wondered how they cleaned/tanned the leather.

My fixed blade knives: an old Buck Special 119 (1973ish), Becker Crewman BK10, a bunch of Moras of different lengths for RV camp cooking, and my wonderfull Ritter Mk3.

I find myself looking at larger knives such as the Becker BK7 & BK9 wondering if I should get one, but then wonder if I'd ever carry those heavier knives (even my BK10 feels heavy to me). I wonder if they really do much of anything that the Mk3 and a small axe (Snow & Nealley Penobscot Bay) couldn't do better.

By the way, it also made me appreciate what those young men (and one woman) were doing to prepare themselves to protect our freedom. Awesome!!

Ken

Well yeah, a larger knife is a valuable tool in skilled hands. I also carry a black handle Kabar outdoors, it's not really heavy or bulky either. A little too big for the chores requiring extreme finesse but all the more useful for the kind of stuff that I need a knife for most of the time - preparing shelter and basic woodworking.

Well look, I suppose the thread is officially hijacked but it was regarding A QUESTION BY NEW MEMBER 'DROPOUT' WHO WANTS TO DROP ABOUT $300 ON A WILSON COMBAT KNIFE AND IF THAT IS A CRAZY THING TO DO.

I never understood the desire for 'combat' knives for any reason more than familiarity with the tool from past professional experience. And that's okay. I won't be high and mighty here, I am very fond of Gerber Mark 2's, but really what are those good for off a battlefield?

I recently got to play with a Gerber LMF and it was an awesome knife. The blade seemed small you don't need long blades for most outdoor craft. The butt cap can pound or be pounded on, it carries its own built in sharpener. Plus its under a hundred. It will be my next fixed blade purchase.

The knife may be Wilson's most requested knife from military personel, but until the Pentagon clarifies what a'tactical knife' is the statement means about as much as 'Mormons overwhelmingly buy Bach and Handel performed by their choir.'
There is a curious contradiction in hollowground blades being called the most robust.
The knife description states it is usefull for 'most' knife applications.' I would really like to know which potentially life saving applications those are. I am sure, once the Wilson 1911 and shotgun have exausted ammunition this 'tactical' knife will kill lots of bad guys armed with child made indonesian blades who's Kalashinkovs have also exausted their ammunition.
Again, Wilson has been around, makes lots of nice goodies for those who need beavertail grip tangs to prevent pinching,safety extensions and all that other stuff SGT York so desperately needed in his famous gunfight with a charging unit of Prussian Guardsmen.
Ultimately, we are all part Magpie and not his wise cousin Raven
and buy what shines for us.

LOL Thanks for the IMMEDIATE input from you all!!

I don't like the designation "combat knife" particularly. Mostly because i picture myself using it NOT hurting other human beings...
But looking at their line is tempting. I wonder about D2 metal versus other types. Is it a rust attracter? The armor coating makes me wonder how much care the knife needs.

Thanks for the tips on other brands.

Yeah the cost is the biggest issue. I don't like buying alot and would rather spend some cash knowing i'd get superior quality over something just really good.

And no i'm not looking for a display knife or collectors item.

Thanks guys.

Anymore advice is welcome

Links! Links! Link!!!!!!! Me!!!!!! Sites!!!!!

Dangit Chris!!!

I did NOT want to know that about myself! :P

D2

Does anyone have a background in metallurgy?

http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=103&e=263&c=techart

Sounds to me like it need to be cured at a higher temperature to gain maximum hardness and minimum shrinkage. It says the corrosion resistance is average. (tacticoat a must?)

Anyone know a good site to see different types of steel side by side?

This is a decision shall be driven mostly by how much you are willing to spend. I can say I have handled both the mod.4 and the mod.22. They are HEAVY and THICK (especially mod.22)

I am sure they are high quality cutting tools, but too much $$$$ for my blood.

I suggest you look upon the mod.22 as a sharpened crowbar/chisel that is too short to use as either.

I have owned several Wilson 1911's and all but one were simply amazing. The one that I was not happy with was taken care of with a smile and no charge to me, so that speaks to their service.

BTW, the Wilson 1911 magazines are the only 1911 mag's I own that don't wear out over time when left fully loaded. YMMV

Wilson 1911 mags are awesome... that's all I know

It's a nice looking knife, but much too rich for my blood.

If it's a tool you think you are going to appreciate for the money, why not get it. If it functions no better than a knife of similar size and a lower price, then how disappinted will you be? That's the real question.

I don't think this board is the place that one comes to get talked out of buying a knife. You might get talked out of buying a specific one, while you get talked into an alternative. Or, you may end up buying both, in time. I see nothing wrong with this either. IMO, one cannot have too many good knives.

Um, I think York and his boys were charging the Germans. Then were counter attacked. But, my memory could be spotty.

As for D2, I think I remember hearing that it's not bad, but you'll notice most folks don't use it. Supposed to be difficult to sharpen (and thus dull), but that also screams "brittle" in my mind.

Funny benjammin you bring up the Busse knives, I was in the back yard chopping down a small palm tree with a NBFBM and it still remains razor sharp to shave with it. I don't know what Jerry does with that INFI but the more I use it the more I get amazed. Yea I stopped trying to rant and rave about the Busse knives because of so many different groups, the Busse Clan, the Mora Clan, and the lists go on and on. I still only carry Busse and scrapyard but have rats as well. This is my old stash but has grown since, Busse's a hard habit to shake, I'll have to start going to BKAA (Busse Knife Addiction Anonymous) to cure my addiction and wallet.

Overlooked in York's taking out machinegun nests and then outflanking the enrenched large unit of infantry was a singleheanded gunfight. York was charged by Prussian Guards, Germnan elite soldiers all 6' plus. York killed 5 with his 1917 Remington Enfield, droopped it and pulled his 1911, killing the remaining7.

The first M1911A1 I used in competition was a conglomeration of parts of the best pistols in the armory. It was the only way to get a 1911 that didn't sound like a baby rattle when shaken. One of the best issue 1911's I have ever fired, other than a true Colt National Match at Camp Perry.

"...baby rattle..."

That was my first 1911, an Ithica made obtained thru the DCM for the total price of $17, including shipping. Trigger pull was to hard the trigger weighs of my gun club could not make it go off...

Beats the heck out of one so worn that it's full auto. In an experienced shooters hand no injury should occur. In a new shooter it was a REALLY exciting day to be the range safety NCO. She let the slide go forward on a full mag and it was an empty mag in a blink of an eye. Thank god she was standing on wet grassy ground.

D2 is known as a highly wear resistant steel. It's very hard, not that tough and not too impact resistant. A difficult steel to work and heat treat so not too popular with the more traditional knifemakers.

D2 can make a good blade when heat treated properly. For some reason though it doesn't seem to be able to take a very fine edge and cannot be highly polished (you get a weird orange peel effect, hard to explain until you've tried grinding D2). Can be real pain to sharpen on natural or softer artificial stones.

The term "combat knife" doesn't mean much, at least not much more than the word "tactical". A true fighting knife would be something along the lines of the Fairbairn-Sykes dagger (the Gerber Mk II is pretty much the same thing), meant for killing and little else. I don't think too many folks except for the entirely uninitiated would attempt to pick any knife like that for their primary outdoor survival knife.

On the other hand, the typical "combat knife" these days is basically a medium-sized Bowie, which has been the most popular type of outdoor hunting/survival knife since the early 19th c. when the Sheffield knifemakers began marketing them. Nowadays the USMC Kabar is the most popular example of its kind. It can make a helluva weapon if necessary but it's primarily a tool. The concept of a 7" Bowie blade may not appeal to everyone but it really works as an outdoor survival tool, hence its popularity.

BTW, interesting what you said about the Gerber LMF. I bought one for a friend and so got the chance to play with it for a little while but there was nothing about it I liked. Too space age, uncomfortable handle, wrong balance and less than perfect blade geometry. I also never figured how to make the sheath work. IMHO it's no improvement over the older generation of US military knives, more the contrary. But I well understand somebody else may find it more suited to his taste. Which is a good thing, the market is huge so to each his own!

First off, thank you all for your responses, links and welcomes. I'll spend more time researching and thinking about what it is that i need. (keeping in mind that i like shiny's)
When I do finally make a purchase i will post and let you know which route i went.
Of cousre if you have other types or brands i should check out please post it here for me.
Thanks again!

D

Oh good lord, if that doesn't open up a floodgate. hahaha.

Uh-hem! Ravens like shiney. So long as it is functional shiney.

Me, I like a nice 1090 or 1095 carbon steel with a wood or leather washer handle in the five to seven inch range. Very shiney.

I have to admit, despite having a collection of fixed blades worth well over $2,000 right now, I have no use for any of them on a daily basis. Other than testing purposes, more than half have not been used for any sort of real service. Three are kept handy at home as self defense weapons (a big knife at close quarters on familiar ground is an effective defensive weapon, especially if you get the drop on the BG). Otherwise, my edc is usually my little Gerber shortcut, which replaced a SAK classic, or else occasionally my Leatherman Wave. Even in Iraq, a multi-tool was used by the soldiers much more often than any fixed blade they carried. When I asked what, other than melee, the fixed blades did get used for, most often it was as a pry tool, or to flip things over to look underneath (the idea being I suppose if something nasty was under there waiting for you, you'd already have the big nasty knife in hand and ready to go), or to cut open the MRE bags.

Most of the time I used mine to fend off offensive palm trees by throwing it at their trunks, hard. Palm trees, after all, are tough.

Benjammin, it must have taken some guts to admit that... I appreciate the honest to God confession.

I'm in the same boat after all, only that I primarily collect old military edged weapons. Dozens of bayonets, swords and kukris - many of them still serviceable - plus a few drawers of blades "meant to be used" that I've never used for anything actually. The only stuff that really sees regular service are my Endura, SAK, Leatherman Wave, black handle classic Kabar plus the puukko and kukri I made myself. In about that order. Everything else is just for show.

Oh, it's like most of my belongings I suppose. I could really do without 70% of the stuff around my house these days. Coming from a background where I had damned little for a time, I suppose it is a bit of an over-reaction now, and maybe some reaffirmation of my hard work generating more success than I probabaly deserve in my lifetime.

I suspect it's the same for many here. If nothing else, I can use the excuse that "it's better to have it all and not need it, than to need it and not have it." There's always a chance I may need a dozen really good fixed blade knives for something someday. In the meantime, I can sit with friends in my hooch sipping whiskey and admiring the collection I suppose. Heck, I may even end up giving them away as sacred gifts to those who someday might seek my approval/admiration and also have need of commemorating some accomplishment materially. I'd like to think such trophies have a practical side, unlike the plaques on the wall, but really, until they do get used seriously, that's really all they are.

This is Raven shiny-

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/kniveswt/wilsontactical/2008tacticalgrade.asp

Now this is the type i'm not looking for.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/kniveswt/combatelite/cfs.asp

SECURITY!!!

"...do without 70% of the stuff around my house..."

Exactly! We have a ton of "stuff" in storage, waiting for us to give up the RV lifestyle. We have decided that keeping all that stuff is stupid, we don't need it now, so we probably won't ever. So the local SPCA (the only place to donate stuff in the county our house sits in) got a windfall. If you haven't used something in several months, you probably don't need it at all...

That is simply blasphemous

From an unrepented hoarder

Pete

That has a very familiar look to it
http://www.randallknives.com/

http://www.randallknives.com/catalog.php?action=modeldetail&id=25