Not where I live, I have searched high and low for them.



What is the difference between survival and survivalist?
I would assume a person who survives is a survivalist, but I am fairly new to this whole thing so perhaps there is nomenclature I am unfamiliar with? Something that might help others is having a terms of service clearly posted. I have look for this site's terms of service and can't find them even after reading every entry in the FAQ. Kind of hard to know what is OK and what isn't.



I am a former Marine grunt with combat experience and formal survival training. I like to think I am qualified to post here. I am interested in emergency/disaster preparedness. I like to think myself rational and polite. I am married with 4 kids and 2 dogs so think myself family friendly. I have never been arrested for anything so think myself law abiding and patriotic.



I am not asking anyone to 'have a problem with the law', I am authoring a post about how the laws we have to live with affect us as preparedness/survival advocates and our practice of what we learn. I am getting that this is the wrong place for such discussions although I admit I don't get how such a thing can be amongst those who would wish to survive/prepare for a disaster. Did Katrina not teach that government and laws won't help in such a case? Did Katrina not teach that government will move right in with no help, but expend resources insisting law abiding folks surrender their firearms and all other credible means of self defense while rapists, looters and other marauders remain armed and at large?



Doesn't apply to me. I live in a suburb and work for a fortune 50 company.



Then this clearly isn't the place for me. If this is a forum for people who think getting 10 years in prison simply because one had a swiss army knife in their pocket for a crime others get probation or a year in prison for then so be it. Y'all can continue discussing your knives (all of which will be sentence multipliers) and your "survival" ideas such as how to start fires (even though those may be illegal and your knife gets you a sentence multiplier) till the cows come home.



Well, I did read that the forum is moderated to appeal to school teachers with kindergarten classes. If that is the limit of what can be discussed then this isn't the place for me.



Of course.



I am not just a guest, I am a paying customer. $200 worth plus I was considering another 160-170 for the RSK3 plus on the knife forums I was speaking positively about the RSKs. On another forum I spend $30 and with my order got a personal note from the owner inviting me to his forum (with higher traffic than this one). No problems there. Here I post something innocent and feel like I have run up against a cult.

Ritter gear is good, but it isn't all that. The RSK1 I got has a ton of blade wobble. Not the lock mechanism, but the body itself. It is so loose the blade can just be wrist flicked open and closed. Nice, but this means when locked there is side to side play (lots of it) in the blade. This isn't a defect, it is a design choice as anyone with the blade knows.

A $20 Dozier Kabar folder doesn't have this loose play in the blade. Nothing in the promotional material mentions this loose play in the blade.

The survival kit is better than most, but is still cheap. The firestarter is guaranteed to rub your thumb raw. The compass is cheap crap like virtually all tiny compasses. Never can tell where north is because the little thing may just be rubbing against something instead of pointing north. The whistle is good, but the wire and thread? Not enough to be practical. I could go on, but won't.

Ritter branded stuff is OK, but it isn't the best one can find. Above average? Yes. While I have my misgivings about the forum and it's moderation I am not going to unfairly slam a decent product.

The forums? Pretty much suck. Hate on me all you like. You folks call yourself preparedness minded, but you can't even entertain a civil, politely worded post about how local/state laws affect us.

Can't even imagine how this group will survive should the do-do ever hit the fan. I guess this is why some other forums refer to you guys as 'armchair' survivalists. At first I thought it unfair, but now kind of understand.

Good luck folks. I am pretty much certain to be banned as soon a Chris wakes up simply for making a post asking about the law and survivalism/preparedness. So be it, just means this isn't a hang out for me (or anyone else not counting on Uncle Sam being in their disaster kit)

I also advocate the rule of law. It makes a society function. I am a former Marine so I do understand the idea of rules/command/law. This doesn't mean all laws make sense nor does it mean that all laws are favorable to those of us who would like to do simple things like dig a Dakota fire hole in our backyard during the rainy season to get some practice. It doesn't mean it makes sense that a state law allows a spring activated leg trap capable of maiming a child, but doesn't allow a twine snare that couldn't harm a baby. I don't care how law and order oriented you are, I have a neighbor who is former sheriff deputy and now game warden who isn't so uptight.



Katrina taught us that the law and order officials are going to bail and take care of their own families and leave the rest of us (who can blame them).



Like the courts do today?

I am definitely on the wrong forum.

Most of us are not using said utility tool to harm another person, their property or their income. Your example is not a victimless crime and therefore warrants whatever sentence multiplier your state allows.

Now, why are you getting a cold shoulder? You see every so often someone comes in using a non-desript (pardon the ironic pun) 'Username' and then right off the bat starts lines of questions similar to "How do I evade laws in my state?", "What kind of tools would you have in your Escape and Evade kit?" "Whats the best rifle and caliber for punching through a zombie brain?" "I am the master of my domain and that is wherever I am standing so I will ignore laws so I can do what I want." (that was the basic concept of someone who came here last summer looking to hike across the country.)

I did a Google search for 'wisconsin folding knife laws', response time was 0.44 seconds. The first hit was a .pdf that says blades over 3 inches are illegal. My Leatherman, SAK, and gerber folder (all things I rotate in my EDC) are well under 3". My RSK Mk1 is a about 3.3' so while that's technically an illegal carry in Wisc., based on my demeanor, cooperation, and respect I show the officer I doubt I would get much more than a warning. I certainly would not be meeting said officer as part of committing an illegal act or acting suspicious.

I did the same search on Wisconsin trapping laws and downloaded the entire 2008 trapping regulation pamphlet. Not being a trapper I would think that trapping is a method of hunting and therefore not the same as controlling pests in your garden.

You will find this forum more along the lines of how to collect and purify water when the faucets don't work, how to start a fire, how to stay warm and dry, the pro/cons of GPS, Spot vs. PLB and links to current survival situations in the news. In this last topic, Mr. Ritter has been immeasurably helpful with his insight.

You will NOT find people on this forum who support weakening law on crime, supporting criminal behavior, advocating or teaching techniques akin to spying, breaching, evading capture, lock picking, or discussing The End Of The World As We Know It situations.

I have now explained to you what I believe it is 'your doing wrong'. In both of your posts, your looking for affirmation of deviant behavior. You won't find that here.
=====================
From when I started writing this response till I posted, there was a lot more activity, (I started before Jeffs post).

Your asking people all over the world to comment on the laws in your state on if you can or can't use snares or practice snares. Why not call a game warden in your city? Do a Google search on what is legal.

You said that your relative got ten years for using the knife in the use of a crime, not that he had kept it in his pocket. Not that it made a difference. If he had just matched the description of someone who committed a B&E and had a screwdriver in his pocket he'd probably have gotten the same sentence, who knows. What is now known is that while Wisconsin is tight on the size pocket knife a man can carry they are tough on criminals. Good for them.

So the death penalty for stealing quarters from a machine would be OK in your view?



Neat, but that isn't me or what I posted.



There is no such law in Wisconsin. Please post the link you found. If it is a link to an actual state statute I eat crow. There is no such law, instead nobody can carry any knife here without fear. In the case of my nephew his blade was 2 and 3/4th inches. Carry any knife, even a tiny swiss army chinese knock off for $5 at Wal-Mart and you can get a sentence multiplier for jay walking.



And that belief would make you ignorant. Your RSK1 is illegal and I also own one. I am, according to your research, a criminal simply for wearing an RSK1 on my belt or in my pocket. That is the entire point of my post that so many of you rush to judge me on. Ritter sells me a product that can get me jail time according to your understanding of my state's laws. I can go to Wal-Mart in town and buy a knife with a much longer blade no questions asked. They are sentence multipliers, but I guess that is OK? Doesn't really bother anyone?




Like many laws here they are intentionally vague. Having read the 2008 regs can you please tell me if using 550 paracord for a snare is legal or not? I read them and it appears they are not. It appears to me that the only legal gear is the overpriced contraptions that conform to an arbitrary standard that do not make any sense.



OK



Again, doesn't apply to me. I am a former Marine and current fortune 50 IT guy. I get the idea of rules and structure. I don't think laws forbidding fires on personal property during the rainy season are conducive to folks trying to get some safe experience making survival fires though, do you? The laws governing me on my own property are much lighter than on public property such as parks. If I can't light a fire on my own property during the rainy season where can I learn to construct a proper fire and try out the various fire making tools?

Does nobody on this forum care about such things? Again, I strongly suspect I am on the wrong forum. I get that and only am posting until the inevitable ban when Chris (who refused my PM) wakes up. I just can't believe what I am seeing here.



I did not solicit affirmation of 'deviant' behavior. I simply posed the question to the membership asking how the laws they live under compromise their preparedness for emergencies and training. I can't comprehend why some seem to think I am soliciting affirmation of 'deviant' behavior. I am confident that if you read my initial post or any post in this thread there is no encouragement for anarchy or deviant behavior.

You folks sure are quick to judge.











[/quote]

No, you're a guest - that money was for a knife and other things, not for the forum

I didn't mean to imply that my spending $200 on Ritter gear would buy me any special thing here. Rather it was a comparison between this forum and another. Here I spent 200 and get treated like crap and on the other with more traffic and better info I have no problems. On the other I spent $30 and got a note from the owner inviting me. Here I post an honest question and feel like I am being interrogated by rookie cops who think they know how to interrogate.

They have no reason to interrogate, they just do because they can and therefore do.

For a NGO to promote or let somebody promote illegal acitivity is a big no-no.

Also reading some of the post in this topic, it's getting a little political and personal. Both are adressed by the forum rouls.

Respectfully, I think I'll have to disagree with most of the first post.

Before I get to that though, just a quick question: if there are such draconian laws in WI, why is hunting such an avid activity? How are the poor "firarm" laws able to be circumvented by deer hunter, etc? I'm asking not to bust your chops, but for my own edification.

Also, the Ritter knife "wobble" isn't a Ritter issue, it's a Benchmade issue. DR just designed the blade profile, whereas Benchmade is the producer, based on the Griptilian knife model. There is a small screw that acts as the pivot for the blade, that can be tightened. Finally, Benchmade DOES have a lifetime warranty, so you can send it back with a note on what's wrong, and for $5 (return postage), they'll fix it right up.

OK, back on topic! I think that most state laws don't really forbid the type of preparations most of us discuss. For example, any day hike or multi-day camping situation allows us to practice primitive bushskills, fire making, water collecting, etc. Geocaching can help with navigation/GPS/map & compass skills. I don't know where in WI you are and how that affects travel, but if you want to get into trapping, perhaps taking a trip to MN, the UP, or IL would be appropriate? Yeah, trapping may be a bit restricted, but most hunting and fishing isn't (IIRC).

Hopefully this answers some of the concerns you've raised. As for the knife concerns... well, if you're ever questioned, you might get away by saying something along the lines of "I've carried one ever since my time in the Corps." Nothing illegal about a dialogue. But, of course, I don't think this will get you off the hook if you're carrying a Kabar at Lambeau.

Fine by me, I can tolerate polite discussion not agreeing with me.



The deer hunter enjoys certain protections. Deer hunting is a major revenue generator in Wisconsin so unless a hunter shoots somebody else any trespasses are forgiven. Wisconsin is in the top 5 most taxed states (sometimes coming it at #1) for a reason. Very little of that money goes to actually protecting wildlife even in this age of green everything. Heck, even being as highly taxed as we are we can't even get a snow plow dumping salt to come by our road because it is 'too expensive'. Everyone knows that Illinois politics are hopelessly corrupt, but not everyone knows Wisconsin is the only state other than Illinois that has no form of concealed carry on the books, you simply can't have a firearm on you concealed or open carry without running afoul of the law here.

As I said in a previous post my neighbor is a game warden for the state. During certain seasons you can do anything you want (because it generates revenue) and any other time you cannot. It is like China during the Olympics.



Do you suppose that when Doug 'designed' 'his' knife he was unaware of this problem? Do you suppose Doug had no knowledge of the blade play issue when he contracted with Benchmade?



Actually it costs the phone call to get a Return Authorization, then the postage to Benchmade and the postage from Benchmade. About $20 in total and for that one could buy a Dozier designed Kabar folder. Not as nice, but plenty good as a tool knife. I am not slamming the knife, I am just saying that neither the Benchmade ads nor the Ritter ads mention this very loose blade play not found in other knives. Some may find this blade play disconcerting. This is the kind of thing I was willing to overlook and not mention until I found this hostile forum apparently run by Mr. Ritter who cannot be contacted from any link on his forum. I will be certain to mention this from now on when I see this topic on other forums "Is the RSK worth it?". I used to say 'yes', but will now say 'no' due to the hostility of this forum. Of course there is the obvious product defect that neither Ritter nor Benchmade mention. Had I known about the loose blade play inherent in a 'high end' knife I never would have bought it. The RSK1 is just a drawer knife for me because it's loose blade play disconcerts me. I would love a refund, but since Mr. Ritter can't be contacted from any source on his own website what does that say about him and his products? Chris, I know you are going to ban me, but what can you do about getting me a refund for a cheesy, overpriced knife with good steel? Anything? Do I just have to ask my credit card co to charge back? The knife is a wobbly piece of crap.



With respect, you are ignorant of your own state's laws and how often you run afoul of them.



The problem is that trapping works for you 24x7. Fishing and hunting only work for you as long as your energy holds out. Why would I, or anyone, travel at our expense to another state just to learn how to behave illegally in our own state?



And why should a Kabar be illegal at Lambeau? I do not understand. There are many places where knives and guns are illegal and some make some sense, others do not, but the morons keep getting new locations to the can't carry list added and who can keep up? It is beyond my means even though 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' seems to hold a lot of weight with the law and order types. The same types that Katrina proved will abandon their responsibilities in favor of their own families the instant the SHTF.

By "law enforcement" I mean just that - enforcement of the local laws. Nowhere do I place this responsibility on police officials.