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#160760 - 12/31/08 11:29 PM Archery advice
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
I was 14 years old, and looking for archery equipment. I walked down to the local place-bait shop/sports equipment shop, and told my story to the crusty old proprietor. I was looking at a pre-packaged set-he stopped me, and said that he could do better in used equipment. He put together a package of used and new stuff-bow, arrows, glove and arm guard, belt quiver-I asked "how much?" He looked me over, and, I swear, sniffed -and quoted a price that was within twenty cents of what I had in my jeans.

That was 45 years ago, and I still have most of that stuff, plus a couple of additional recurve bows. No arrows. I went looking for arrows, and got some plastic vane fletched arrows, which seem to work okay atshort ranges with a recurve bow. I do not want a compound bow, because I am opposed to having gears attached to my archery equipment and because I am thrifty. Maybe when I wear out the old bows...

So I need advice:
What is the experience in using non-feather fletching with traditional bows?
Is there any kind of maintenance required for elderly fibreglass bows that appear to be in good condition, and were stored unstrung..for a really long time.
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#160765 - 01/01/09 12:18 AM Re: Archery advice [Re: ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I had no problem shooting platic vanes off a standard arrow rest, in spite of the warnings of the traditionalists.
The spine of the arrow matters more than the fletching anyhow.
If the arrow is the right weight for the bow it wiggles around the bow as it leaves and the fletching does not touch the bow.
The effect is called The Archers Paradox.
It the arrow is too stiff it will not fly straight because it slides against the bow as it leaves. If the spine is too weak the arrow bends too much and the nock end slaps the bow as it leaves.
As for old fiberglass, I have shot very old glass bows with no problems too.
Just try bending the bow easy the first few shots. If it is going to fracture it will likely start by delaminating on the back, most likely near the edges of the back. It wont be a brittle type of a fracture, more of a splintering effect. It moght separate from the wood core if it is a fiberglass backed wood bow. Before stringing it look it over to make sure there are no nicks or whitish looking areas.
As fiberglass delaminates the resin pulls away from the glass and gets a milky instead of a clear look to it.

You still might want to wear a glove on your bowhand for the first few shots and keep an eye out for it.
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#160767 - 01/01/09 01:11 AM Re: Archery advice [Re: scafool]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: scafool
I had no problem shooting platic vanes off a standard arrow rest, in spite of the warnings of the traditionalists.
The spine of the arrow matters more than the fletching anyhow.
If the arrow is the right weight for the bow it wiggles around the bow as it leaves and the fletching does not touch the bow.
The effect is called The Archers Paradox.
It the arrow is too stiff it will not fly straight because it slides against the bow as it leaves. If the spine is too weak the arrow bends too much and the nock end slaps the bow as it leaves.
As for old fiberglass, I have shot very old glass bows with no problems too.
Just try bending the bow easy the first few shots. If it is going to fracture it will likely start by delaminating on the back, most likely near the edges of the back. It wont be a brittle type of a fracture, more of a splintering effect. It moght separate from the wood core if it is a fiberglass backed wood bow. Before stringing it look it over to make sure there are no nicks or whitish looking areas.
As fiberglass delaminates the resin pulls away from the glass and gets a milky instead of a clear look to it.


And maybe eye protection. When son#1's composite hockey sticks shatter in a big way opposed to just breaking there are splinters flying. With the bow near you face, seems there would be more of a chance of seeing one up close.

You still might want to wear a glove on your bowhand for the first few shots and keep an eye out for it.


Edited by Desperado (01/01/09 01:13 AM)
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#160787 - 01/01/09 02:38 PM Re: Archery advice [Re: Desperado]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
"And maybe eye protection."

Yes, good point.
I wear glasses as a simple fact of life, so I often forget to mention eye protection.

I get what you are saying about hockey sticks though. They are actually stressed more than most bows are and are more likely to shatter in a big way.
When I have seen glass bows fail they usually do it by one of two ways. By raising slivers or splinters on the back, or by delaminating on an internal shear line. Neither of these failure modes are explosive deconstruction, but it is far better to be safe than sorry.


The plastic vanes for fletching are quite flexible, more like rubber than plastic, but they are still more likely to cut the skin on your bowhand than feather fletching is if your arrow comes off the shelf of the rest when you release it. So a glove as well as the arm brace.

The reason that many people advise against using plastic fletching on a shelf type arrow rest is they are afraid it will bump going over the rest and throw the shot off.
The cure for that is to nock your arrow onto the string a little above the height of the shelf. I learned that when shooting traditional stick bows with my knuckle as the arrow rest.
Until you get the nock height adjusted for your arrows there is a good chance they will hit the shelf or your hand as they leave the bow.


This page was written for a compound bow, but it explains a bit about spine weights and nock heights.
http://www.martinarchery.com/o_manual/2004manual/finetune.html

This page gives a better description of how to set the nocking point
SUAC - Bow Tuning


Edited by scafool (01/01/09 02:43 PM)
Edit Reason: added link
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#160813 - 01/01/09 08:36 PM Re: Archery advice [Re: scafool]
MedB Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 108
Great topic and some good info so far!

Maintenance-
As long as bow was stored right, not much. Right does NOT include leaving it strung for extended periods, standing on end, UV exposure, etc. For a recurve, you should also try and hang the bow from two hooks in the belly of limbs (as opposed to flat on it's back).

The string however is another matter. For many bowyers it's the most overlooked item. Check for wear on the ends (string itself and string nocks on the bow). And some string materials don't do well over time (waxed thread for example stretches with moisture and age). Also check the serving on the arrow nock region.

Arrow Fletching-
This isn't exactly what you asked but... I really prefer wooden arrows for traditonal (no cams) bows. Why? Besides the asthetic, wooden arrows can be straightened and reshot after a hard miss. They tend to be more resilient than carbon etc. And remember, kinetic energy is a function of speed AND mass. If you can't take down game with a good Zwickey two blade and cedar arrow, you've got the wrong bow; not the wrong arrow.
Learn to straighten wooden arrows (it's easy btw) and you will be a happy archer.

I prefer natural fletches, but fake ones work fine as long as they are soft. If your nock point is right (as stated above) then you shouldn't have to much trouble. Besides, arrow rests are made to be replaced and super cheap and easy to do, so don't be swayed by that arguement. However there is one arguement that does hold water ...
Natural fletches tend to have a bit more "drag" and thus induce spin more quickly in the arrow. This can have the effect of stabilizing the arrow faster as it leaves the bow. This is especially important if your technique is less than flawless. As mentioned above the act of an arrow leaving a bow is violent. The paradox the arrow goes through is a sight to behold (high speed video) and any chance to stabilize it quicker is worth considering.

By the way, moving the nock point can be a good idea, but first you need to make sure you are taking into account how you grip the string. Most traditional archers (not primitive) go with two fingers under and one above. That will move your arrow nock point up.

Hope this helps,
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#161211 - 01/04/09 02:55 AM Re: Archery advice [Re: MedB]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Thanks, y'all-
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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