Does anyone have experience with the SureFire G2 Nitrolon in LED? We have 6 that are incandescent, and I would like to change them to SureFire's new LED replacement lamp to improve battery life.

I haven't seen rechargable CR123. Are they around and I've just missed them?

Primary Lithiums are excellent but they are expensive. I have had good results using Soshine RCR123s 3.7V rechargables.



http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13811 (these are even cheaper than any primary CR123s available for retail in the majority of retail outlets in the UK)

In the UK a single CR123A can cost up to $8 each from well known supermarket outlets. I do keep a small supply of primary CR123A (around a dozen or so) for their long term storage ability but now mainly use rechargeable cells instead for everyday use.

Fenix T1, High 225 lux: 1.0 hrs, 2 Soshine RCR123 ==> $0.04/hr (assuming 200 recharges)

Ha, I guess that answers my question, doesn't it.

I got a Fenix P3D three months ago and it is the best flashlight I have ever seen. Surefire flashlights were once my gold standard. Now Surefire seems like prehistoric technology to me, in comparison to Fenix. The lowest setting on the P3D is more than enough light for most household tasks. And at 60 hours battery life time on low, I'm seriously wondering if I'll have to replace the batteries even one time a year! The Fenix P3D can also serve well as a self-defense tool on the blindingly high setting (which will also strobe with a click of the switch).

For those of you looking for a LED flashlight using AA batteries, I recommend River Rock AA light available at Target for about $27. You won't be disappointed!

The Novatac P120 series light was designed by Henry S., the owner and engineer behind HDS Systems.

Henry has an excellent reputation and was a pioneer in LED portable lighting technology. See his early Action Light which employed cutting edge power regulation, LEDs and power source in a hugely rugged package, way before it became vogue.

At the time, Henry joined NovaTAC and brought his HDS EDC flashlight with him. With minor tweaks, it was produced as the NovaTAC P120.

It appears Henry and NovaTAC had a falling out at some point and Henry left to resume business under his own company. Henry is fairly consistently regarded as somewhat of an engineering perfectionist, and rumor suggests that perhaps the NovaTAC product wasn't quite up to his standards (tolerances, production, materials). In any case, the specifics are not known since nobody is talking.

Henry did another revision of his design and is now selling the lights under the brand name Ra Lights. His "Ra Clicky" is basically the evolution of what you see as the NovaTAC P120 (which was the evolution of the HDS EDC lights). He has made a fair number of improvements, esp. in the durability, even though the P120 was quite durable already.

His "Ra Twisty" model uses the same technology, but in an ultra rugged design. Note the use of a shock gasket in front, behind, and around the sides of the extra thick lens, in a stainless steel housing. This is about as sturdy as it gets.

In general, Henry's designs have always used very sophisticated power regulation. They do thermal regulation, rechargeable cell protection, etc. These are very sophisticated lights.

So to get back to your answer. In any form, Henry's designs, esp. the electronics are more sophisticated than the Fenix lights IMO.

OTOH, the Fenix lights represent a wonderful value. These are a LOT of bang for the buck. But they aren't close to the Henry designs in any number of ways.

My feeling is the NovaTAC lights are very good lights, but not as good as those that Henry is producing himself under the Ra name.

IIRC, Henry is currently planning a 2xAA battery pack for his Ra lights, but the ETA is unclear. Henry tends to want to get it right, and will delay the release of the product until it is "right".

Basically, you can't go wrong with any of these lights. The Fenix lights are a great value, and in a lot of ways, the NovaTAC lights are a great value in that they have Henry's engineering in less expensive form than from Henry's company. And Henry's lights from Ra represent pretty much the best lights you can get.

Right now, my EDC is an HDS Systems EDC Ultimate 85 with an 18650 lithium ion rechargeable battery pack and a 2x123A battery pack as a spare. Basically a light produced by Henry prior to his joining NovaTAC. It is an outstanding light.

This light has caused me to lose my upgraditis. But if I were to replace it now, it would be with a Ra Clicky and my backup light of preference would be a Ra Twisty.

I look forward to alternate battery packs for the Ra lights, but keep in mind that the Ra lights all are designed to support rechargeable batteries, and I've found the optimal carry situation is to use a rechargeable battery for normal use, and a primary battery as a backup.

-john

This is a good point. All batteries are not created equal, and this applies to lithium 123A cells as well as others.

For the best reference regarding 123A *performance*, see the thread, 123 Battery Shoot Out on CPF. This is the most complete and definitive information on 123A battery performance I've seen.

In regards to safety, this is a serious concern with lithium technology. People should keep in mind that in addition to a failure of the battery, they can explode violently and they vent very dangerous fumes.

While talking about rechargeable lithium technology, the thread Li-Ion protection technology and possible dangers is a good read to get familiar with the dangers of lithium technology. I'd suggest it for anyone using any type of lithium batteries.

Note there are potential issues with manufacturing defects as Doug points out, and problems with people not understanding the risks well enough and doing things they shouldn't.

The first category is difficult to ascertain, but our best defense is as Doug suggests. Try to avoid "off-brands".

The latter is more under our control and basically comes down to: DO NOT mix and match cells of different brands or different charge levels! This means once cell lights are intrinsically more safe than multi cell lights.

Don't allow these batteries to be shorted!

Also, do not use UNprotected li-ion rechargables unless you know what you are doing!

Use of protected li-ion rechargables should still be done with care and understanding of the issues. Don't mix and match different charge levels, different brand/models, etc. Use a charger that does independent cell charging or only charge one cell at a time.

-john

Yep, you missed it! Take a look at the Li-Ion Battery ShootOut to see a comparison of some of the options.

These rechargeables can be very useful, but make sure you understand the safety issues first and treat them with respect.

They are also not appropriate for all applications, so you need to make sure the light (or whatever) supports the use of li-ion rechargables.

-john

Keep in mind these lights have different goals.

Also that there is a broad range of products from SF, some very sophisticated.

While the Fenix lights tend to be brighter, and are great bang-for-the-buck lights, when it comes to reliability and tactical light use, I'd still bet my life on a SF over a Fenix.

This may be changing with the TK10 and TK11, but I haven't seen a critical comparison of these lights in that context. Certainly it is clear the TK10 and TK11 are very good lights and very good values. Are they up to SF standards in regards to reliability? I don't know.

Also keep in mind that a number of the SF lights are essentially "legacy" lights, probably targeted at existing users who have existing fleets to maintain, or people who are familiar with an existing product and don't want to change, or pay more. Also, some don't like the tint of LED lights.

Bottom line is it is good to have options!

-john

+1 TK20 is exactly that, but 2xAA.