I have noticed that BIC lighters lose their pressure over time, although they will still produce a small flame even after ten years. Also, I found some old Esbit tabs still in the packaging that had turned yellow after ten years. I haven't tried them to see if they still work as well as when white.

Anyone discover anything else that might need to be checked/replaced after a number of years?

well anything with a expire date, corrosion on metal(alloy) things, things made of rubber, knowledge can be lost or be outdated...

Almost everything has a limited shelf life in practice. The most critical on my list - medical supplies (including water purification tablets!), food, water, matches (wood or paper, both degrade after a few years), firestarters (some types deteriorate within a few years), batteries - alkaline as well as rechargeable, ammo etc.

High temperature, direct sunlight and high moisture all increase the rate of decay. Anything mechanical that isn't in use regularly must be checked every now and then. Also, a lot of folks seem to believe that syntethic materials are more resistant to decay than natural ones. Wrong - sunlight and UV radiation can affect many plastics and synthetic fibers in a very short span of time.

Anything plastic, if it is exposed to sunlight or heat...

me

Whats the life of shotgun shells, the plastic shell type.. is their one? Can I extend this life by packing in a #10 can with oxy absorbers.. Or maybe a mylar bag..

Thanks,

Don't know if this is a very good test, but I recently shot about 400 that were about 20 years old and didn't have one that failed to go bang.

I need to add that these were not stored in any specific way to preserve them. They were hand loads also, and to tell the truth they "felt" a little "hot" compared to normal.

I realize that storing ammo in the garage or shed would cause a degradation in quality. but if my shells are stored in a 24 hour air conditioned location, these should last forever.. My thoughts.. I mean what within a piece of ammo actually goes bad?

on a side note, were is the best place to get ammo for a 12 gauge? I have been hitting walmart and paying maybe 10 bucks for 15 00 shells. Does hand loading cut down cost considerably with these days of cheap walmart ammo?

I don't know if 24 hr climate control even matters. The recent "find" of 400 12 Ga. hand loads had been in an unconditioned storage for all of that time. I know I loaded them, because they had my initials on the boxes and the last time I loaded was 1988. My folks forgot what was in the big boxes of hunting stuff. When I helped to move my dad out of his storage into mine I found them.

As to what goes bad in ammo, the powder / primer could get "wet" from humidity in theory. It seems this would be more likely in shotgun shells since there is no "true crimp" of case to projectile like a rifle/pistol round.

you mean 25 shells right? Or are you buying slug/buck shot. Most bird shot comes in boxes of 25

Chemical degradation of the powder and the primer will happen no matter what condition it is stored in. It may take longer to decompose in a more controlled environment, but the process is never halted, unless you are willing to go to extremes.

Brass will go brittle over time. Copper jackets will corrode. This can be mitigated some by applying protective coatings (as with tuff cloth). I had a box of 35 remington that was pushing 30 years old and had been kept in a relative safe environment most of that time. Upon shooting it, many of the cases exhibited stress cracks, particularly where the head meets the body. After 3 or so of those failures, I uncorked what was left of the box and deactivated the primers and tossed the lot. Generally, I don't like to keep ammo beyond about 20 years under any conditions, and shouldn't have to for now.

This is actually somewhat related to my line of work. The bottom line is, there is no simple answer because it all depends. If you take plastic shotgun shells, what are they actually made of? Some plastics (eg. polythene, PP) are relatively stable. Others like PVC or polyurethane deteriorate rapidly even under ideal circumstances. The decay cannot be prevented and is irreversible. While plastic objects degrade, they also tend to release a significant amount of gases. These are frequently corrosive (PVC is a good example) and will affect any other objects in the vicinity.

Even something as innocent as storing ammo in a wooden crate might be a bad idea. Wood, especially if not sealed, releases acetic acid. That means there will be a specific (slightly acidic) microclimate inside a tightly closed wooden crate. This may well corrode primers, bullets and brass cases and increase the rate of decay for many plastic shells. Most kinds of paper and cardboard are also acidic.

The damage is generally slight but cumulative. It really depends on other factors, mainly the room temperature and relative humidity (RH). As a rule of thumb, it's best not to keep plastic and metal objects stored inside the same tightly closed container. Anything plastic is better placed on open, ventilated racks, only lightly covered by something breathable to avoid dust accumulation. RH should definitely not exceed 60%. 50% or less would be a better (and usually still realistic) goal.

Folks living a dry climate may not need to bother with such safety precautions. In a very high humidity environment though you could store centerfire or rimfire ammo in a tightly closed metal box, perhaps with some silica gel inside. The gel will absorb excess moisture but you'll need to replace it periodically. It's reusable, though - drying can be done in an oven at 250-300°F for an hour.

I've fired old paper rounds in the last couple of years....

Yeah, they were in Dad's ammo box, probably older than I am

As a caveat, treat ALL fixed ammunition, regardless of age or visual condition as if it had just been loaded.
Two anecdotes: A family owned a FLINTLOCK and someone decided to dribble a little powder in the pan and touch it off. They did, killing a family member with a ancient charge and ball that had lain quiet all those decades.
In a second less extreme, but satisfying case: A burglar found the WW2 1911 owned by a retired marine. He tried to shoot the owner, but the vintage hardball didn't fire. He was looking DOWN THE BAREEL when that 50 y/o primer said 'oh, is it time?'

I'm a sucker for a story with a happy ending like that, especially this time of year.

-Blast

Hey Desperado, buying Buck shot... seems to be a bit more expensive than the birdshot..

I'm with Chris, I've certainly degraded in the past few years.

My dad has my grandfather's 16ga. Probably last fired in the late 40's, maybe early 50s. With about 30 rounds. I think we're both a bit afraid to find out if it works!

Yeah, especially if it has color case hardened parts. Sounds like it's time to clean that one and hang it on the wall.

Speaking of old ammo, a US businessman supposedly found the wreck of the Lusitania (from 1915) and over 4 million rounds of Rem .303. Wonder if any of it would still fire?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...p.html?ITO=1490

Lusitania's resting place has always been know. It simply wasn't dived on out of respect as a war grave.303 was loaded with cordite, a propellant known for very rapid degradation.
The sad fact is people are still killed by unexploded ww1 and 2 munitions and anti personel land mines are a major killer and maimer of epeoples in spite of e late Princess Dianna's work toward their elimination.

Last time at Fort Sill, OK they were still finding pre-WWI cannon projectiles and detonating in place. At the time I thought they sure did use a big bang to set off the old bang. After I learned about explosives, I realized that is what is known as a secondary explosion.

Here in DFW there have been several neighborhoods that were bought back by developers and the government after residents found 250 and 500 pound aircraft bombs from WWII training. According to the folks I met from a sub-contract EOD type company the explosives decompose back to almost straight NitroGlycerin.

At Camp Gruber OK I personally found several UXO 4.2" mortar rounds after I hit a bump in the off road track I was driving on. When the gun truck behind me got on the radio to stop and see what I had hit, I thought uh-oh, someone's pet got on post. After I saw the UXO, I almost needed new pants, and the day off.

Thats pretty amazing, I always thought they used dummy munitions for pilot training during WWII due to the scarcity of materials. I'd hate to be the guy working a backhoe in a new subdivision in a former training area comin across one of those things.

I recognize the horrific humanitarian toll leftover landmines cause. But I've always been against the proposed international ban on landmines because I believe their use, particularly the aerial and rapidly deployable types, sometimes saves American soldiers' lives.

But I'm guessing, with an utter lack of actual knowledge, that it would not be all that hard to design them so that that they degrade to inertness after the tactically relevant period of time. I'd prefer an international treaty requiring that, instead, if feasible.

It's shocking how the detritus of wars long past continues to kill so many, year after year, even many decades after most have forgotten precisely why those wars were fought. Not too long ago, I recall hearing that a souvenir collector was killed by UXO from the Civil War. I've even heard stories of impoverished people sending their own children into potential minefields ahead of livestock they felt they simply could not afford to lose.

Jeff

One would think so, but I promise you no developer in the world would give back what he charged plus the property value increases.

They even had to get the contaminated dirt out due to the chemicals in the explosives that had leached out into the soil.

Jeff,

The US now has a remote mine system that can be deployed and later turned off. Is is on the bane of a brilliant munition. I have seen it on History Channel. So at least the US is doing it's part.

Oh yeah, You would be amazed at what a claymore can do for ya'

I'm sure the poster had other thoughts besides munitions.
If there is a lesson here, it is that all things are finite.
Civilisations run out of water (Chaco Canyon) and half a millenium later another civilization is making the same mistake, building giant steel frame kokopellis and yei dancers to bring fire to our mega campfires and hoarding weapons for when the lights do go out.
I've only known one 'survival kit' item that was truly timeless.
I was working a Wyoming prehistoric bison kill site and uncovered with a stroke of camelhair ( another peer of the long vanished giant bison) the clovis dart point that had slipped past ribs and into some vital organ.Once I had photographed and plotted it on my unit map, I excitedly picked up up. And in my haste, that @ 8,000 year old, still one molecule thick at the edge artifact neatly slit a cut in my left thumbs fleshy palm area 3" long, the scar still visible.
It's sort of futile, standing with blood pouring all over and getting mad at some guy who's dust is scattered beyond identification because human nature is to always blame something, somebody for our own stupidity.
So just keep rotating those lighters, shotgun shells and fruitcakes. And when you do, take stock of your own mental freshness, keep it as sharp as that dart point.

I am a bit of a collector and it is strange what I find will hold up. And sometimes items that seem like they will last forever are the first to go. The wooden box referenced earlier is a great example. I have seen pristine crates, cigar boxes, and paper wrapped items utterly ruin its contents. I also have an old mapcase that has nearly perfect leather, but all the metal fittings, even the ones not in contact with the leather, are junk. I would love to use it, but I just can't bring myself to replace the hardware.


And if anyone needs to rotate out some old "useless" ammo let me know! I have some WWI era .303 that went bang every time (before I found out it was worth $) and I routinely fire 60 year old Turkish and German 8mm, not to mention 40's and 50's era 7.62x54. I can guarantee you they were stored in some nasty hot/cold conditions but as long as there is no serious corrosion it is fine.

Keep in mind that some of that WWII axis ammo was loaded by slave labor, and the folks forced into slavery would send a few extra powder charges into the batch to blow up in the users face.
Granted in a true Mauser it would need to be on hell of a bang to cause any damage endangering the shooter, it would be a shame to fall victim to 65 year old sabotage.

Interesting Story Chris. Thanks for sharing

Ya gotta treat every clovis dart point as if it is loaded

We settled out of court, Kenniwick man coming up with more character witness than I could.

+10^23

That, and my hairline. I used to be able to get by at 30 without a hat. Now... burrr...

But other than that, I've got better gear. So it balances. I hope

Plea bargained down to disturbing the peace...

What's the mechanism of that? Was the fuel all gone, or did the nozzle get blocked?

Matches expire, especially if untreated. I suspect the BIC lasted longer. Batteries have a shelf-life.

Kennewickman



Captain Jean-Luc Picard aka Patrick Stewart...

Those Yorkshiremen just seem to get everywhere

That would be nearly impossible as the case is nearly filled to the brim with powder as it is with a normal charge. I am also certain that sabotage did occur, but in the many thousands of surplus Axis rounds I have safely fired and the tens of thousands that have been fired by those I know or communicate with via the web I have never heard of something like that happening. The real danger I have seen is when a reloader accidentally loads a rifle round with pistol powder or another powder with a grossly different burn rate.

Don't want to tell anyone what to do or be a jerk so by all means do what you feel comfortable with. Sorry for the hijack, I will shut up now!