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#176576 - 07/16/09 02:40 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: Todd W]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Lately I've had a run of bad luck with anything to do with fire. A new Windmill lighter died within a handful of uses. All of my WetFire tinder has shown to be poorly sealed. And the wheel on the backup Spark Lite failed to operate.

I agree -- there is no way I want to be stuck somewhere without a reliable means to make fire. So I have been carrying at least three redundant methods: lighter, matches, and some variety of firesteel (plus tinder). I was thinking about trying out the Blast Match or new Sparkie for giggles, but there are just waaay too many moving parts for my taste.

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#176602 - 07/16/09 04:41 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: cedfire]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
This is why I like the simple ferro-rod over other more complicated methods. It works and there isn't too much about it that can fail. Sure, it might degrade with age, but a simple coat of clear nail polish before you put it into storage stops that. I've got a ferro-rod on a magnesium bar that's older than me and it still starts fires no problem.

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#176610 - 07/16/09 05:42 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: Doug_Ritter]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Doug_Ritter

A piece of survival gear that does not lend itself to one-handed use may not be "reliable" at all if you only have one hand to use.


Good point and well made but sadly the Spark Lite is probably not that tool.

I have had difficulty using a Spark Lite whilst having cold hands and being chilled. This leads me to think the Spark Lite would be next to impossible to use if you were hypothermic. It is way to small to use. If you had frost nip or bite using the Spark Lite is likely to cause tissue damage which would further hinder your progress.

It surprised me to that the Spark Lite had an NSN No, do NSN items get tested in the real world? Or does the item just go through a cataloging process.

A survival tool that cant be used when you really need it will send you mad, make you angry and hammer your confidence: all things you want to avoid when your life hangs in the balance.

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#176613 - 07/16/09 05:46 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: PureSurvival]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Originally Posted By: Doug_Ritter

A piece of survival gear that does not lend itself to one-handed use may not be "reliable" at all if you only have one hand to use.


Exactly.

And if it breaks after a couple uses... again not exactly reliable no matter the warranty.
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#176624 - 07/16/09 06:30 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: Todd W]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
Todd, I've had a blast match plastic break on me as well, but I actually like the rod better than I do their device and I pulled mine out and drilled a hole in it and use it instead of carrying the big plastic contraption they have. I love UST's fire steel, even if there plastic case is not as strong as the make out, the fire steel is still rock solid, good diameter and length and works great on a key chain with a hacksaw blade to strike it. It's a shame about the wet fire tender problems they are having right now, I hope they resolve the packing issues, I really like the their tender as well when it works (hince the problem). You can still strike it one handed as demonstrated above, you just have to get creative.
_________________________
Failure is not an option!
USMC Jungle Environmental Survival Training PI 1985

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#176716 - 07/17/09 05:46 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: PureSurvival]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: PureSurvival


It surprised me to that the Spark Lite had an NSN No, do NSN items get tested in the real world? Or does the item just go through a cataloging process.

The US military has been using the Spark Lite since the late 1970's and it has tested many times, including in Survival Schools in Alaska!.
I've seen persons with hypothermia who could not use any thing to start a fire.

Breaking News! Oak Norton and Four Seasons Survival will be bringing to the the market within a few short weeks, some aluminum Spark-Lite's with replaceable flints! After using some of the previously designed brass Spark-Lite's in all weather conditions, I'm looking forward getting my hands on these new Aluminum Spark-Lite's. The new Aluminum Spark-Lite's come with an allen wrench and 1 spare flint along with 8 Tinder Quik in the familier blaze orange plastic case.[b][/b]
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#178353 - 08/01/09 06:27 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: Stu]
aardvark Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 109
Loc: So. California
One thing about ferrocerium rods is that they will deteriorate with time/moisture if exposed. Notice that when you buy Ronson 'flints' for your lighter they are covered in red varnish. I would guess that this coating stops or slows the oxidation process. Scrape that off the first time you spark it and you start the clock.

I don't know if Sparklite flints are fully varnished when manufactured, but it's clear that if you spark it once to test it and put it back, it may fail some time in the future. The thing to do is have a few around, one to play/practice with and leave the others unsparked. And inspect your kit every so often.

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#178402 - 08/02/09 10:10 AM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: aardvark]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Stu

The US military has been using the Spark Lite since the late 1970's and it has tested many times, including in Survival Schools in Alaska!.
I've seen persons with hypothermia who could not use any thing to start a fire.


Stu, I was first introduced to Spark lite at the Land Survival School, Washington, back in the late 80s. It was not as part of a survival kit but as the fire starting kit. I voiced my concerns back then about its use in the cold-land environment. The instructors agreed with me and said they prefer the magnesium blocks or metal matches.

Many skills are demonstrated in the ideal surroundings of a survival course by fit, healthy, well equipped and well rehearsed instructors and students. Most of these skills become very hard when used for real. Too much kit is give a place in the military because it works in the training environment yet fails at the first sight of real life contacts. Secondly, military survival is normally in the form of tactical escape and evasion. Fire is none tactical, so it is far less important in a military survival kit.

I have also seen people unable to do much with hypothermia. But, it is possible to do many things whilst you have mild hypothermia, to allow you to slowdown or stop the effects. Providing the tools you use do not require fine motor skills and that you can hold them.

Although the Spark lite does not require very fine motor skills it does require a tight grip that relies on that you have feeling left in your hand. The wheel is quite stiff and need quite a bit of pressure and feeling to turn. With cold hands this is painful, with no feeling in your hands this is nearly impossible to do.

I found that the spark lite is a lot easier to strike against my thigh when cold providing you can grip it. Interestingly if you can use a spark lite you can use a Bic lighter. Which has a far larger body, which allows you to grip it better with cold hands.

Can anyone tell me which military survival kits since the 1970s the spark lite has been included in, including date of issue and NSN No of the kit.

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#178412 - 08/02/09 02:15 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: PureSurvival]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
The older trappers always kept large wooden kitchen matches handy. (often in a sealed tube to keep them dry)
I never liked carrying them because they would get damp and useless or they could light up in your pocket by accident.
I always had either a bic or a zippo handy, and had the kitchen matches in the cupboard at camp.

I really prefer the spark rods like Doan's Magnesium or Firesteel as an emergency lighter to carry over any spark wheel I have seen so far.
When your hands are so cold that turning a key in an ignition lock is a huge challenge you certainly do not want to be struggling with a finicky spark wheel, not even on a bic lighter. (of course you should have had a fire going and be warming your fingers around a mug of hot tea before you ever got that cold to start with, but that is another thread)

Sometimes we trade a bit too much of item's functions off in favour of compactness and reduced weight.
It is fine that if you don't have it with you it does you no good, and the bulkier it is the less likely you are to carry it, but the other side is that it has to work when you need it, and work under the worst conditions.
To sacrifice effectiveness for reduced size often results in a useful tool becoming reduced to nothing but a trinket, and it is a strategy that should be used with a bit of caution.

There is one thing the sparklight score well on. It can be used with one hand. If you have been hurt you might only have one hand available to do things with.
(It is the same reason I like putting one hand opening knives in emergency kits if they can not carry a fixed blade.)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#178426 - 08/02/09 04:30 PM Re: Sparklite failure... [Re: scafool]
DannyL Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
Originally Posted By: scafool

I really prefer the spark rods like Doan's Magnesium or Firesteel as an emergency lighter to carry over any spark wheel I have seen so far.
When your hands are so cold that turning a key in an ignition lock is a huge challenge you certainly do not want to be struggling with a finicky spark wheel, not even on a bic lighter.


I agree. I have several sparklites, but the only thing in my persoanl experience that beats a firesteel and tinderquik is a road flare.
I've been cold before, and fumbling with a bic lighter or a sparklite is not fun. Especially if your fingers are damp.
I do carry storm matches with me, but they're hard to come by up here (it's a hazmat thing, nobody will ship them ).

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