Story here

Reading this story about Aron Ralston cutting off his own arm I couldn't help gearing up the 20/20 hindsight machine and second guessing him. What could have saved this guy's arm? Or more to the point, what would keep me from having to cut of my own arm?

I thought of my last day hike in the mountains with my daughter. We were going out to scout out a route to the top of a ridge where we're planning to camp. This mountain has no road access so you have to park a few miles away and hike to the base. I stopped at the house of a local cattle herder/subsistence farmer to get local info as to the trails. It turned out that his place was about as close as you could get by car and he suggested we leave the car there so nobody would mess with it.

I pointed out the exact point on the mountain we were headed for, an unmistakable ramp to the top between two sheer rock walls. He knew the route we were going to use to get there. I got his cell phone number and told him we planned to be back at the car by dark.
My daughter and I each carried WHISTLES and in addition to the CELL PHONE I also had a SIGNAL MIRROR.

It seems every time I read one of these horrible stories I am impressed by the urgent need to carry some means of signaling or communication. Also, how could this guy be missing for five days and not have a search party following the route that he left with a trusted friend? Seriously this guy went out to hike alone and apparently either didn't notify anyone or changed his plan mid-hike. I would much rather blow three blasts on a whistle every five minutes, knowing people are looking for me, than cut off my arm with a Chinese Leatherman copy!

Whenever I go out I want someone to eventually think, "Mac isn't back yet." I want someone to be able to find my car or starting point and follow me until they hear my whistle or see my mirror flashing. Better yet I want to be able to call my wife and say, "I've fallen and I can't get up!" It doesn't have to be this way. Mac

The hind-sight 20/20 machine is an interesting friend. It is much better used when you accept that the situation that happened to someone else can, indeed happen to you. In a rock canyon sufficiently deep you may not be able to use any electronic devices. Rock does block radio signals - even to satellites. Signal mirrors only work line of sight, not only do you need a clear line of sight to the sun but also to the signal target. Camping trips often run for many days. Large rocks move when you lean on them. These are some of the unpredictable facts of life in the wilderness. Supposing you go out for a week of mountaineering with your satelite phone, epirp, GPS, cell phone, ham radio, signal mirror, whistle and of course your trusty friend and full train of sherpas. Well you won't have any solitude until a thunderstorm frightens your pack animals off and the sherpas have to leave you to track them down while you go on ahead. You and your side kick then get lost because the batteries were affected by the Thunderstorm and the GPS doesn't work anymore. You don't realize you are lost until too late so you try scrambling through a ravine to get back to the trail. While deep in the ravine you find a rushing stream making a lot of noise so you drink and your friend falls in and cracks his head on a stone and becomes a liability rather than an asset. You decide that rather than scramble up the other side you will follow the stream for a bit. Scrambiling between two large stones on the edge of the stream you lean on what should be an immovable boulder and it leans back because the spring runnoff has undermined it and it was just waiting for you. Now you are squashed at the bottom of a ravine. Too much vegetation to use any signal mirror effectively, Too much sound from the stream for the whistle to be useful. Too deep in the ravine for the Satelite phone to get a signal, or the Epirp to be heard. Too far off the trail to be found by the Sherpa's easily, once they round up the animals.

OK, so it can happen. So what did your hind-sight 20/20 machine tell you to do is such a situation? Did you replace you ultralight carbon fiber walking staff with a slightly heavier titanium one that can be used to lever the stone off your hand? Did you add some really good pain killers to the med kit so you can smile as you hack off your arm? Did you add a small geologists hammer so you could dig your hand out of the rock? Did you learn to test your hand placements with a tentative shove before risking getting stuck? Did you learn to risk a stick or other non-essential item in you test shove? If you hind-sight 20/20 machine only told you that you are so much smarter than the poor schmuck that this happened to that it could never happen to you then you have wasted the opportunity to actually learn.

Survival is about making do with what you have when you find yourself in a situation - anyone with enough will and a minimum of gear can do it. Preparing to survive is about planning, re-thinking, considering as possible truly bad situations and then trying to work out how to get through them. If your preparation for a situation is to consider it avoidable then simply learn how to drive well but don't bother putting on your seat-belt. A truely bad thing happened to Mr. Ralston - he survived. That is the essence of survival. Many lesser individuals might have perished from what he faced. Staying there and attempting to signal rescue failed him, so he did what was necessary with what he had to survive. Losing a limb is preferable to losing a life.

[RANT-ON]Staying at home is the only sure way to avoid the situation he found himself in. Then you will face the potential that you may grow so fat and lethargic that you are stuck in your bed pinned down, not by a boulder, but by your stomach.[RANT-OFF]

The more I Read miniME's posts, the more I think I like him.

Thank you.

Well, I tend not to hike alone. One of my buddies will occasionally go out on his own, but he lets people know where he's going, and when he should be back. As far as being stuck without the use of all our fancy equipment, one of the things I learned in a SAR class a few years ago was to figure out a back azimuth before you went off the trail/road/base/whatever. Figure out a direction to head in, such that no matter where you start from, you will hit something like a road or a clearing, or some other identifying landmark. So given the scenario of having the gps failing, and realizing some time later that I was lost, I would use my back azimuth. If my compass was lost or broken, I'd use my analog watch as a compas. There are still a few more direction finding techniques i could use. If all else failed, I'd stay put.

As far as Mr. Ralston is concerned, had he left a proper plan with the instructions to start looking if he didn't get back in time, he wouldn't have had to cut his arm off. What he did is truly a testament to the will to live, but it is also a testament to stupidity. What have I learned from him? Just telling some of your friends that you're going camping for the weekend isn't good enough. you need to tell them to start looking if you aren't back by monday. Or better yet, leave a plan with a ranger. What else did I learn? To not trust rocks, no matter how big and imovable they may seem, but then again, I don't really hike in loose bolder canyons, but it is still a good idea to check any kind of footing or hand hold before you put your weight on it.

-Chris

Mini-me,

I fully accept that the situation that he ran into could happen to me. Maybe there was more to the story than what was in the article but the way I see it he had five days in which nobody was looking for him. In this case he took the only option he had and you have to give him credit for having the guts to do it. My point is that even a small thing like a broken leg can turn a hike into a nightmare.

Granted we can all come up with "what if" situations in which none of our preparations or plans will have worked and in those cases we will have to fall back on grit, knowhow, and the will to survive.

The point is that most things that turn into survival situations look pretty mundane going in. A day hike, an overnighter, etc.
Leaving a travel plan and carrying signalling equipment are basic precautions that get overlooked to people's harm.

My cell phone dosen't have a signal on the mountain where we went recently. I took my wife's, she gets a max signal there. The point being I took the time to figure that out because it's a good thing to have along in case I step in a hole and break an ankle. If I happen to smash the phone, or the sun isn't shining or a packrat made off with my whistle I guess I'll have to fall back on something that makes for a better story. Those skills are already in place, but really who wants to go there?

Could any of the things I suggested cause harm or put me into some overconfident fatal flaw? This guy lost his arm. That's serious and should give us pause as to how to avoid getting into such a desperate situation. After reading that article I came away with 1. Leave a plan and 2. Carry the means to signal. I didn't mean to sound cocky, as if it couldn't have happened to me. It can and I'm acutely aware of that when I'm out there. Mac

Not Hiking in rough terrain alone - FREE

Telling someone where you'll be and when you're due back - FREE

Not having to hack off your own arm - PRICELESS!!


In the interview I saw part of, the climber said his knife was so dull that it wouldn't cut the hair on his arm. Hasn't he heard of the $15 Superior Sharpener? (www.2xsharp.com)

You can choose to be smart and avoid an incident, or be brave and tough during one. Ain't it amazing how a fool who lives is described as "heroic", but the thousands of smart outdoorsmen are ignored?

My .02

Peanut

Monday morning quarterbacks.

This story is getting media attention. I have seen, read, and heard differing accounts from the media.

So far what I can piece together is the fella is an experienced outdoorsman. Experience means he does it alot. It does not mean he does it well or smartly. One article indicated that he normally leaves notes at his vehicle and did this time. Another indicated he usually does but did not this time.

Others have since returned to the location of the incident and said the helicopter would NOT have seen him based on where he was in the ravine. A signal mirror may have helped, maybe not. A signal mirror is useful if there is air traffic over you, just a shinny trinket when no flying stuff overhead.

There has been a variety of discussion of how he sawed through his bones. I heard on the radio this morning that his hand was wedged so he forced his arm first one way and then other to break the radius and ulna bones. He then cut the flesh at the point of the break.

Reportedly he took 3 liters of water for a DAY hike. How much water do you think is a good idea to carry (at 8lbs a gallon) for a DAY hike? I have not been able to determine if he had purification methods along with him. Even if he did, he was trapped and not able to collect and purify additional water.

I have seen differing stories regarding help being dispatched. One indicated SAR was not dispatched for 3 days. Another indicated they had been looking for him for 2 days before he was found. One indicated his co-workers called SAR on Monday when he did not return to work. How long would your coworkers wait to call SAR if you failed to show up at work on Monday?

The weight of the rock has varied greatly but most accounts agree is was BIG and Heavy. Too Big and too Heavy to move by one man.

Assume that you left a note indicating your expected route of travel, had stayed to that plan, left word with people to contact SAR if you don't return by Monday. It is now Wednesday. You are out of water and have not heard or seen any indications SAR was in your area. You are trapped on the side of a ravine. How long to you wait before you take action to save yourself?

Part of experienceing the wilderness is the wilderness. Having others along to share the workload can be enjoyable. Other times they can limit how much you can "just get away fromi it all". I have taken walks in the woods by myself and it is very different from taking even one other along. I sometimes have to take those soliditary strolls. The more often you take solitary adventures, the more you build confidence in yourself and skills. Yes you put yourself at greater risk but that is part of the experience. If I wanted complete safety, I would stay in a padded room.

This forum is all about what if stuff happens. What supplies, techniques, ideas can you implement to overcome the unplanned. From what I can find, he was taking on acceptable risk, was adequately prepared based on his skill level, and got caught by Murphy. He adapted and overcame.

I'm with you on this one.

It's might be bad form to play Monday morning quarterback, but I agree with Mac that there is something to be learned from this. I can't even imagine being that out of touch for five days. How do you do that? The people around me wouldn't allow it. Its almost like you'd have to arrange it on purpose. I can just imagine the conversation:

Ben: Bye honey! See you later.
Wife (or Boss, or Parent, etc): Where you going?
Ben: Oh, I'm off to the canyon/woods/desert to do some climbing/hiking/hunting.
Wife (or Boss, or Parent, etc): OK, when you gonna be back?
Ben: Oh, I don't know maybe 5 days, maybe 10, maybe 15.
Wife (or Boss, or Parent, etc): How will I be able to get in touch with you?
Ben: You wont.
Wife (or Boss, or Parent, etc): Hold it right there, bucko!

(and you can imagine the rest of the conversation)

How do you get this disconnected from the rest of the human race without making a concerted effort to do so? THATS where the mistake starts.

From what I have been able to find, it was supposed to be a DAY trip. What I do on my weekends is no concern of my boss. There has never been any mention of a girlfriend or spouse during any of this.

A single man decides to take a DAY hike on a weekend. He expects to return to work on Monday. Something happens while out in the wilderness and he doesnt return on time. He doesn't show up at work on Monday. The boss might call his apartment and get the answering machine. The guy has climbed 49 mountains in the region and he is in his late 20's. He is not a complete novice and probably has a pretty good idea of what is likely to happen.

When I was a single man living in my own apartment, I did not call my parents every time I left my apartment. That was one of the reasons I moved out of state, to have some time to grow up and live my own life. If I was going somewhere without my girlfriend, then I might tell her when I return. She was a girlfriend, not my handler. I was an adult providing for myself. What I do on my own time is no concern of my employer and shouldn't be. As long as I report to work when scheduled, then it is MY time, not theirs.

People are so used to having a pager and a cellphone, they can't remember when your time was your own. They should be times when you are alone, not lonely, alone. Being in constant continuous contact with others is an new urban thing. Let go of the leash. A trip to the wilderness is time to leave all the tecnocrap behind and spend sometime with the wilderness, weather, and wildlife. Geez.

Right arm - I mean, right on! (Sorry, Freudian slip <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

There's a big difference between analysing an incident and thinking "What would I have done differently?" and second-guessing the guy who actually did it. The former could save my life someday; the latter is pointless and even counter-productive. As miniMe said, if all you conclude from this is that the guy was an idiot (and from what's coming out, I think he was anything but; he was an experienced, competent outdoorsman who took a calculated risk and had very bad luck), then you have ""wasted the opportunity to actually learn" from his experience. All you have is a false confidence that this will never happen to *you*. And relying on false confidence is a lot stupider than anything Aron Ralston did. So there! <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

A. Ralston demonstrated an incredible will to live, no doubt. But he also made some poor decisions despite all of his outdoors and SAR experience. In his interview, that I watched, live, he acknowledged some of those mistakes. Along with others on the forum, I have pointed out what I see as other mistakes. See the "Survival Story" thread. This does not mean that I consider myself to be any more or less intelligent than Mr. Ralston. I point those mistakes out to highlight the fact that experience is for squat if you fail to apply it to your plans and preparations, as seems to be the case in this incident. Although he was only on for a day hike at the time of this event he was at the end of what he termed a "short, extended vacation." Whether that means a long weekend or a month away he didn't specify. In any event, he had spent at least the 2 previous days mountain biking, hiking, and camping. FWIW, the docs at the interview said that in all liklihood he would have lost his arm even had a rescue team been with him at the time of the accident, the soft tissue and bone damage was so severe.
Ed

Yeah, OK.

I'll show this post to my wife later and tell you what she says about my cutting the leash... if it can be printed in a public forum.

And before anyone tells me how whipped I am (something I do joke about myself), I would not allow her to just disappear alone for an undetermined amount of time either. Knowing where she is going and when she's expected back is a given.

I have disappeared myself for up to 48 hours when I was younger and single. Anything more than that seems pretty excessive to me.

There is a difference between not making plans and having plans fail. I look at such incidents not to critcise the guy but to learn from his mistake. The guy lost his arm. You only get two chances in life to do that.

I am becoming more and more convinced by this board and stories like this one that people who can contact SAR or have SAR looking for them at the earliest possible moment tend to fare better than those who are not missed and not looked for.

Leaving a plan with a trusted person and taking the means to communicate/signal could fail, true. Not leaving a plan and taking the means to communicate/signal already has.

My mention of the whistle, mirror, and cell phone was what I took in the situation I was in recently, a hike up a rocky/grassy slope. The cell phone was left off until I called my wife from the top to let her know we actually climbed up the mountain rather than just found a route to the base. We changed our plan and I let her know where we were and where I had parked.

Serious injury can happen to anyone in the wilderness and the danger only compounds when you are alone. I can't imagine being in such a situation and thinking there was not a soul in the world that knows where I went because I didn't tell anyone. The fact that I could wind up with my hand under a boulder is the very reason I leave a plan and carry the means to signal. Mac

>>one of the things I learned in a SAR class a
>>few years ago was to figure out a back azimuth before you
>>went off the trail/road/base/whatever.

How is this relevant? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Aron Ralston wasn't lost, he was stuck.

Today, I am married with two young <9 kids. I can't get out alone for 5 minutes let alone 5 days. OTOH, when I was single, I worked as a consultant and often had months between gigs, I dated but often didn't commit to anyone. I lived alone. I hiked alone alot. I wouldn't leave notes that said "stupid" things like "Call out the SAR if I'm not home by Monday" because I wanted the freedom to change my mind and stay awhile - or perhaps hike through to the other side and stay in a B&B before renting a car for the return. I didn't consider myself "out of touch" with the human race. I liked a party as much as the rest and was often in the midst of things but I also liked my freedom and solitude.

Having the means to reach out with a signal is a good thing but can't always be relied upon - even with satelite phones. Having the smarts that our ancestors had to survive in God's garden isn't much more than common sense and a load of luck. The same contrivances that allow us to confidently talk about what we will be doing in our 60's may make us overly cocky in our 20's. Our ancestors didn't get to 60 very often because the garden (though beautiful) was (and still is ) a dangerous place where STUFF happens to folks.

We talk alot about gear here because gear gives us an edge when STUFF happens. A walk in the garden when nothing happens is much more enjoyable in comfortable sandals, light cotton shorts, tank top and straw hat with nothing in any of the pockets to weigh you down. Unfortunately, STUFF happens with fair regularity.

I certainly think that our intrepid adventerur in this case made some decisions which might have been made better. I would start by testing the tight spaces before risking myself into them. If he had left a detailed flight plan with a SAR trigger time SAR might still have been looking a 1/4 mile off and not found him for the same amount of time. The outdoors is an amazingly large place. The found him quickly because he had already walked most of the way out.

I don't fault him at all for wanting some solitude on his adventure. Solitude carries additional risk but is not a defacto bad decision.

An Airforce Survival Instructor gave me a gem of understanding that is relevant here. He said something like…..
Survival is all about making mistakes. When you notice you have made your first mistake it is time to become very careful. When you notice the second, stop and think about things as though your life depends on it. When you encounter the third, realize you are treading a thin line between life and death.

We all make mistakes in our travels. I have ventured into the desert without enough water and had a very very bad day. I rode a motorcycle and woke up in the hospital. Never did find out what happened. I have climbed in places that I was lucky to survive.

I have learned each time how narrow the margin is between a nice day and a truly bad one. I need to be reminded (frequently) of that reality. It does not matter what Aron Ralston did or did not do. What matters is that I may again find myself on that thin edge of reality and remembering Aron Ralston and others that have survived seemingly hopeless situations, empowers me to do things I might not otherwise find the strength to accomplish.

And it also helps me keep looking for mistake #1, #2 and #3.

Sorry...that was in reply to Minime's post...it seems my response has gotten separated from his by quite a few other posts.

-Chris

Thank you to Aron for having the courage to let the world know the lessons learned. We all know these, but, sometimes, a reminder is in order. I understand this golden rule, also, but how many of us follow this rule EACH and EVERY time we leave into the 'country'?

Thank you to Aron for letting the world know what is possible. Someday, I hope not too soon, I will find myself fretting an unfortunate circumstance. I know that I cannot prepare for every possibility. So, I hope that I am able to summon the same courage.

Xavier - Phoenix, AZ

I just keep thinking about what a GOOD idea a knife or multitool with a saw is.

Bear

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I feel that Mr. Ralston did make one serious(from a survival point of view) goof. He didn't "file a flight plan." I say this from the point of view of a caver. While caving and mountain climbing aren't the same, caving does have its share of inherent risks; some of them with deadly consequences. I was a caver for a long time: rec, survey and teaching. It was always stressed to me and I stressed it to my students -- "file a plan." I would always explain that if you don't, you put your loved ones in very hard situation: trying to decide if your late return is intentional or not.

If you want to be in communicado for a while, fine -- file a plan. I am certainly *not* saying that you can't have impromptu activities. And I certainly don't want to second guess Mr. Ralston's thinking. I'm sure he weighed all the pros and cons before his trek. I'm just not sure *I* would have left out the "file a plan" step.

Just my two cents.

Torus.