Hello All,

So, for the sake of this discussion, assume that you and a few others (Mormons mostly) are prepared with one year's worth of food, water and supplies.

Something big happens and those stores become necessary.

All of a sudden your neighbors (or friends or relatives or strangers)come looking for help. These are the same people who thought you were crazy for imagining that something might happen.

What would you do?

I've thought a lot about this and I don't have an answer. There are few neighbors whom I've talked about preparedness with, and a few of those have stocked up on some supplies. Usually this is just fulfilling the Red Cross's or FEMA's suggested 72 hour kits.
I've encouraged everyone I know to think about preparedness, plan and get ready for tough times. Most people just scoff. A few of my neighbors have said things like "we'll just come over to your house if something bad happens". It was funny at first, but what do I do when they actually show up hungry or hurt? I have stores for 6 months tops for MY family. In an emergency (worst case or not) where do you draw the line?

There's a reason you are supposed to stockpile arms and ammunition as well as food.
A lot of people think it's for when the army comes to your house, but it's not.

The ant and the grasshopper...

What they don't know about my stash won't cause me any sleepless nights. If they come a calling, I will tell them the truth and say I've nothing to spare for them. It may seem cold, but all I gotta do is picture my wife and/or kids cold and hungry because I gave their food and clothes away to someone else, and that settles that idea but quick.

You draw the line at meeting your responsibilities. If you have an abundance, then go ahead and share, but I cannot predict the future so well, and who's to say that in a crisis situation, two years of food and water stock would be required to get by.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. You put those supplies up for a reason; you don't change your mind just because some fool outside your door is suffering needlessly. You make a plan, you stick to it, and keep the outside factors outside where they belong. You wanna feed the homeless or the unprepared, make separate provisions for them outside of your own needs, and when those supplies are gone, feel good that you were able to help out as much as you did.

That, my friends, is life.

This is good. This is what I imagine most people would think, myself included. I'm not sure it would be so easy if my six-year-old son's best friend asked if he could eat with us. I've lived in my neighborhood all of my life. I've known some of my neighbors for 35 years. Would I (could I) drive them away with threat of violence if they were in trouble. It seems to me that sort of lack of community is what will lead to a collapse. Perhaps I'm just a bleeding heart liberal (or something), and it might be obvious if it ever comes down to it, but for now it's an ethical problem for me.

Keep a low profile about your bounty and then you don't have to answer those awkward questions. You never want to be the richest house in the neighborhood in time of plenty or famine.

+1 to everything that benjammin said above; I could not have said it better.
Unfortunately, it appears that those of us who try to prepare for emergency/crisis situations are a small minority. I don't think any of us would enjoy seeing others suffer; but the most prudent course of action seems to be keeping your preparations as private and confidential as possible.
I think PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY seems to be more lacking in our society every day; and that's a shame.
I would certainly try to assist others whenever possible; but, I don't plan on letting my family be victimized by people who had no forethought to make even the most basic preparations.

Yes, good idea to keep a low profile. It IS tough with young children who innocently tell the neighbors about Daddy's shelves of food, water and supplies in the basement. Maybe it helps to plan ahead for charitable give/no give scenarios.

Did someone post a link here to this short film, "Old Friends," a few weeks ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPYwmHiseXQ

A few good posts on this topic can be found at SurvivalBlog.com:

When unprepared folks come knocking -

http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/11/letter_re_when_unprepared_folk.html

Preparing charity packets -

http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/07/letter_re_preassembling_charit.html

Keeping a low profile -
http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/02/letter_re_keeping_a_low_profil.html

Maybe this is where barter comes in?

I work hard and think ahead make plans and preperations to feed my wife and I,I have talked to friends and family till I lose my voice and it does no good, I feel I did my part. They have health insurance maybe a little bit better house or a newer car,more money in their savings account than I do, when I'm behind on a bill, or I need my truck fixed or repairs on the house I don't see them offering to help me. I guess the one and only exception I would make is if either of the two groups (family/friends) were willing and able to offer help in the form of hunting, fishing or growing a garden, to me that would justify taking care of them, as long as it didn't put my wife or I in a bad position and shorten our chances for surviving.

My cover was blown a long time ago. As one neighbor said as hurricane Ike came barreling down on us, "I wasn't worried, Blast was here."

One of the best things about my neighborhood is that it's edged by hundreds of acres of wild river-bottom that is filled year-round with edible plants. Most of these plants aren't very tasty and it'll take some work to collect them, but they'll at least keep the neighborhood kids fed. My basic plan is to organize foraging parties to go out and collect the stuff as well as help people set up wild edible gardens in their yards. I already have clout in the neighborhood to help me organize things. The down side to this plan is there are also a lot of deer and pigs out there which means there will also be people with guns after them...definately a danger to keep in mind.

And if things get really bad there's always bugs...

-Blast

While I can't hid my preparedness from my co-workers, (hell I make coffee on my desk with a French Press and heat the water with a Camping Gaz stove), I don't advertise my stockpile of ammo, food & water at home.

In my past travels, I've spent several weeks where the community was left to its own devices for food and water after a natural disaster. For the most part everyone worked communally for the benefit of us all. I remember hauling water and making fire to boil it and taking my ration, giving some to families with kids. I didn't tell anyone I started the mess with 100 gallons of water stocked away and ton of provisions. Taking my ration didn't raise any questions and giving some away endeared me to families. When a family had a sick child or unable to get food, they would find a few nyquils and cough drops or a can of beans mysteriously show up at their door.

My current neighborhood reality is that I am acquainted with but not chummy with my neighbors. I'm prepared for a long stay but plan is not to hunker at my house during a disaster if I can avoid it. Meaning, if my area is hammered and I can stay with someone out of the zone, I am putting my family there. Having food stores is great, making my family safe and comfortable is the priority.

"Maybe this is where barter comes in?"

Well, yes, I guess it does depend on how pretty the neighbor's daughter is. I will always have something to share, just depends on what is being put on the table I reckon. LOL

I don't suppose anyone in need is going to have much else that is going to interest me if things go bad. Otherwise why would they be coming to me in the first place?

Really for many the question will be how effectively can you hold off an army of desperate people once they discover you have something they want/need and are willing to kill you for?

But this is really getting rhetorical. Most likely the situation we are going to be faced with will be acute, severe, and not likely just something we can sit and wait out.

Benjammin,
Good post. My personal rule is if you need to shelter at my place, don't come empty handed (with a few exteptions) and be prepared to do what needs doing.
If others want to store supplies for future use at my place they are welcome to.

While I do understand the innate desire for self-preservation in times of crisis, my personal philosophy is that there is strength in numbers. Relevant to this topic I believe that an organized and cooperative group has a better chance of pulling through an extended critical situation. For example, you might want your neighboor who's a dentist to be around you when that molar gets infected.

So the question is: Would I share my family's supplies with others if a blizzard disrupted normal life for a few days or even a week or two? Yes, because that's how I was raised and educated. And I'm sure that's what many of us on this forum would do as well. That's why we prepare, isn't it?

Should I do more to get folks in the neighborhood to think about preparedness? Sure. Will I hold it against them if they don't? No, 'cause that would be against my personal set of ethics.

I think the intent of the original post was to consider the ethics of long term survival in a situation where society has failed in a significant manner. Frankly I don't think any of us knows how we would react in that situation until it happens. But I would intend to act in the manner of the hero of Pat Frank's 'Alas Babylon' and help my neighbors get by until the cavalry shows up.

This op ed piece is not a criticism of how others see the situation; I'm too old to bash others' beliefs systems. I just thought that my beliefs have merit too.

Andy,

I can appreciate your magnanimity, but I will reiterate the same question as others have posed earlier:

Would you be willing to take what your children need and give it to others? If it was between you feeding your child for another week or you feeding other people's children for a day, and that's all there was left, which way would you go? If it was between you keeping your child warm till help arrived, or you letting someone else keep their child warm during that time, which one would you choose?

Just assume that you only have enough to take care of one or the other, not both. Because one neighbor kid that you help quickly becomes another dozen that need help, which then become a hundred, and how much of what you have do you give up for the common good, when the others were not so forward thinking when they had the time and oppportunity to prepare as you did and elected not to, mabye because they figured you would be there to help them?

Ben,

As in all things in life, ethics can be situational. In my case my kids are grown and live apart from me and the DW. I might be more likely to support the little kids on my block at some degradation to my well being because they will be around a lot longer than I will.

But I see the validity of your question. Twenty years ago I might have taken the your approach to ensure the well being of my children. Thank God that situation never arose.

At this stage in my life I'm not sure I'd be all that happy about surviving a situtation that would call for such extreme measures. Especially if it meant that others, that I could have helped, suffered to enable that survival. But obviously I have some interest in self-preservation or I wouldn't be spouting off here!

It was my beloved third grade teacher who read us the story about "Stone Soup" who shaped my point of view of community.

Take care, stay safe.

Yes, I am in the same boat there. My kids are gone to college, so it is just me and the wife and our new puppy that I'd have to consider.

It would be much easier to plan for if I knew there would be enough like minded folks near me to compensate for those who can't see beyond today. As it is, I try to come up with some balance between managing for myself and providing for those in need, regardless of the cause. Not everything that I stock would be hoarded either, and so I suspect it is with many here.

Still, there is a line that must, inevitably, be drawn. After that, I guess it becomes every man for himself, kinda like being the best swimmer in a group trapped in a maelstrom.

There's a line between charity and foolishness. It may be different for different people, but it's important for everyone to recognise where it is. Don't think that I'm going to shoot the starving kid in the street because he dared ask for some food, but when the 3 blocks around me all show up in the morning wanting to split my pantry between all of them so they can all have a few bites for breakfast I might lose my cool just a bit.

Quid Pro Quo. Gas for food. food for gas, etc. harsh but that's the case for me.

Exactly, Barter or work for it.

When push comes to shove, ya gotta watch out for number one...

Reminds me of Laura Wilder's "Long Cold Winter" Everyone was
slowly starving, some quicker than others. In the end, sticking
together and risking for others, saved them all. There also was a
lot of bartering etc.
One of the things that kept the peace was the promise of the end
of the winter, and those that gouged others during desperate
times would then lose any business when times were better.

If you think that you would be willing to shoot someone who
would take your kid's food, be sure someone would be willing
shoot you to get it for their kids. It would be pretty tough
to be under siege from the neighbors.

A strong community is the best chance of surviving.

Well put Clearwater. I agree. Cooperation is one of the hallmarks of a civilization. The sooner people get to thinking this way in a crisis, the sooner things get back to "normal".

I believe that when you give, in good times or bad, you get more in return.

+10

-Blast

This is exactly the sort of differing opinions I was hoping for. Thanks everyone.

So the question (scenario) still stands. I've prepared food and water for my family of 4 for 6 months (if we're careful), as far as I know the most my neighbors have prepared for is 72 hours. If we all come together, does that mean we go hungry (and starve) together when MY food runs out after a few weeks of feeding all of us?

Here is where I loose my way, ethically speaking. I talk to my neighbors about preparing. I encourage them to stock up. We are already a close community and I imagine a crisis would strengthen that bond, but the fact is they think I'm nuts for stocking up for 6 months.

The best case scenario in the event of something big happening, is they all have been storing food and just didn't tell anyone else about it, then we'll all have everything we need, at least for a while. I don't believe that would be the case.

I know everything is situational and I believe that Andy is correct that we can't really know how we will react before that situation comes along.

I believe this sort of event would qualify as a singularity. We might be able to see it coming, but it's impossible to see beyond it.

MichaelJ

Evening to all.

In my immediate neighborhood, I built probably 65 to 70 percent of the homes. As such, those that are still occupied by the original owners are a tight group. There is a core group of us that Think Ahead as several call it.

I feel we have benefited from sharing knowledge and we also have a system of shared responsibilities.
Each of us has one of the Texas Tech Safe Rooms that I have described elsewhere, so that reduces my worry of someone banging on my door just as a tornado approaches.

We have doctors (1 GP, 1 Urologist and 1 Trauma Surgeon), Several ER nurses for Medical.
One Dentist
Two H.R. types (Head Hunters) Employment Survival
Multitude of hunters
Multitude of prior service military (pick your branch/job)
Three police officers
Couple of HAM's (commo)
With this group, we feel we can keep the "Think Ahead Group" comfortable for quite some time

This is something we don't advertise, but we do ask around to see if new skills can be added to the group.

We aren't a TEOTWAWKI group of folks, just hope for the best while planning for the worst.

We lack a Chemist / Wild Edibles expert, but nothings perfect.

Notice you can always find a HAM just buy looking at the vehicle antennas and home antennas

That's awesome.

LOL! I was half-way through your post when I started wondering if they'd want a chemist/edible plants expert in the neighborhood!

I'm not sure my neighbors would let me leave, though.

-Blast

Thanks a lot all!

I live in Minnesota, and that's usually how I get people to take me seriously. I ask them if they believe that we'll have a big blizzard in the next five years. They always say yes. Then I ask if they remember a few years back when a ice storm followed by high winds knocked out power all over the city (some areas for several weeks). They always say yes; that was a really big deal here. Then I ask if they are prepared to live for a week of more without electricity in the middle of January. Usually this turns a light on. The trouble is keeping it on.

I agree with BigDaddyTX that I start to sound like a TEOTWAWKI guy, but I don't really fell that way. I do believe that a month without any resupply is possible, if not probable. Most likely though, I imagine using my stores as a supplement (as stated above) if my wife or I (or both) were to loose our jobs.

It's amazing to me how much we (as a society) have forgotten. With the passing of Studs Turkel a few weeks ago, I've been hearing and revisiting his interviews with survivors of the Great Depression. People in general seem to think that it's impossible for something like to happen again. Given the current economic news; I think it IS happening.

That's the benefit of living in hurricane country. A slightly larger percentage of peopl have some preps stored away...maybe 2.5% rather than 1%

-Blast

Conditions:

Chemist must be able to bring better party favors than those I was taught to make in the US Army by field expedient means.

Chemist must NOT live in property directly abutting builders property (no offense, but some distance is always kept from the ASP. (ammo dump)

Chemist must pass along knowledge, not just bring finished product.

Chemist must use safety eyewear. That way the wild edibles class can continue

There are a few foreclosures in the area, one sitting in the middle of 5 acres. Nice safety zone right there. Not many day jobs around though.

I'm just having a hard time imaging that happening. I could see the police asking you if you would be willing to share, but not telling you to, and certainly not making you.

Jeff

Is that why they all have pitchforks and scythe sin the garages with signs "In case of Blast appearing, use these"

That's why you keep what you have a secret, the fewer people know about what you have the better. Why make yourself a target?

Depends on the scenario. Run of the mill disaster? Probably not. National Guard comes out type of thing? Well...

We've had a discussion about this sort of thing here before, and I don't want to bore everyone. But I think I've said pretty much everything I've had to say in earlier threads. I welcome you to look at that dialogue if you're interested.

ETS Forums » Forums » The Survival Forum » Natural Disasters & Large-Scale Emergencies » Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law

(Sorry, don't know how to make a link)

Jeff

I guess I've just watched too many Twilight Zone episodes. I remember how in one episode a guy had built a bomb shelter, the only one in the neighborhood, and when it looked like the bubble went up, suddenly all his neighbors felt he "owed" it to each of them to let them come stay in his shelter with him. I think in the end they ended up busting it or something, then found out the bubble hadn't gone up, and they were all just jerks.

The police and National Guard are more likely to protect you and your stuff from your neighbors with an inflated sense of entitlement, than they are to take your stuff from you.

Jeff

Yeah, that was a pretty poor bomb shelter...

But a great show, sometimes with themes for survival types to ponder.

Jeff

I am with Big Daddy, I want the support and cooperation of my neighbors, in fact many preparedness texts preach just that, keeping the tribal animal alive, so to speak, and strength in numbers, more variety, their eternal gratitude, etc.

I have barter items stored- cigars, cigarettes, which I rotate out (I don't smoke, so give them to homeless, or my smoking friends), knives to give away (small folders, about 100, cheap but usable), and some MRE's and other items that I could spare outside of our personal reserve.

I also have that can of Cream of Broccoli from 2003 I haven't had the courage to eat yet.

I figure that anyone running a generator (like me) will be inundated with requests to store food that is in danger of spoiling as well. So a cooperative strategy seems best, with myself and my neighbors agreeing on leadership and distribution. If not doable, then spare what I can, and make it clear they need to forage on their own.

"I figure that anyone running a generator (like me) will be inundated with requests to store food that is in danger of spoiling ..."

There's no real problem there if you have the room, due to the 'tax' that is applied to the incoming supplies.

Re: heat for many in a blizzard. Last winter or the previous winter, a farm couple with a 1200 sqft home invited 42 stranded motorists into their home during a blizzard. With that many warm bodies in a smallish house, they probably didn't need much additional heat, if any. They might have even needed to crack the windows.

One thing that people tend not to want to do is bunch up when they should, everyone wants YOUR firewood to heat THEIR 3,000 sqft home with two people in it.

The big problem with trying to hold onto your stuff long-term when others want it, is that you have to sleep sometime. Here is where grouping together (if anywhere near feasible) is a benefit.

Most disasters are relatively localized and fairly short-term, so the 'outside world' can eventually get supplies to you.

The really big bugaboo is the one we might be facing now: a possible Depression. This is the one where the S really would HTF, because the disaster is too large and the backup is too small. I am really hoping it doesn't happen, because we are, as a country, in a far worse position now than this country was back in the 30s. Back then, the country was a mass of small farms that could provide local food; today, that isn't even close to being an option, as our food is grown in centralized areas and shipped vast distances. IOW, a nightmare possibly close to coming true.

I am hoping that the media is overstating the problems. I hope.

Sue

That's why we try to build up our pantry, so we have things when we can't get them in stores, or afford to buy them. Losing your job is far easier on you if you have a well stocked pantry that you could live off for a while, rather than buying groceries.
Should a full depression hit, those with emergency food stores will be able to use them, rather than face empty store shelves or no money.
Even supplementing what you buy with your emergency supplies will make things easier when the goods in stores are limited

We just had our neighborhood holiday party and several of us ended up in a corner talking preparedness. It turns out that my nagging got through, at least to a few people. We made plans to meet again after the holidays.
We all seem to be concerned about different things. I just generally what to be prepared; one guy is really worried about Bird Flu, another about economic collapse, another about a terrorist attack. What's great is at least four of my neighbors are getting prepared and want to do it as a group. A good step in the right direction.

I guess I'll add a small twist to the plot here. Add in dietary restrictions for you and/or yours. Lets say you have been building up your pantry as best as you can but your choices are limited by something like celiac disease (no wheat or related grain gluten for you) and/or some other food allergies. The gluten free thing is especially tough since even foods that should be gluten free are often contaminated with enough gluten to cause a reaction.

So no MREs (may be a blessing in disguise) or typical emergency supplies, almost no prepared/easy foods and the ones that are available are hard to come by normally and have short shelf lives. Even a minor disruption in the supply chain can have long term impacts to local availability. Hopefully you can at least depend on beans and rice . All those unprepared others will have a far easier time getting assistance when the National Guard or Red Cross or whoever ride into the rescue.

Similarly keeping a good supply around for what ever reason (job cutbacks, snowstorms, hurricanes, etc.) is critical because your needs (beyond beans and rice) will be the first to disappear from your local stores and the last to reappear after things start getting back to normal. Most of these suppliers are very small businesses since they cater to less than 3% of the population so some things may never come back from a larger disruption like a major recession.

Under these circumstances I would be a lot less willing to share my supplies, especially if the dietary restrictions applied to my kid.

- Eric

You, my friend have just tackled what I think is the hardest part. If they return for the post-holiday meeting, you will know who is truly serious. I wish you all the luck in your endeavor. Remember to search out unknown skill sets in the group. You will be amazed what comes out of the woodwork. I just found someone I have know for three years wasn't "just in the navy", but a SEAL! I learned that as he absolutely humbled me on the range this morning. He seemed to just "think" where he wanted the round to impact and the hole appeared in the target.

Sniper humbled, I must go lick my wounds and explain to my wife about the money I lost.

I actually tuck a couple packs of cigarettes into my care packages to friends overseas. They don't smoke but it great bartering. Glad someone mentioned that.

I think with food allergies, and I am not being sarcastic here, if someone comes to me for aid in crisis and we are all hurting, I am going to give them what I can, I am not going to deplete say my rice stores because the last three families all had a gluten intolerance and wouldn't take my pasta.

My son has some health issues that demand nutritional considerations so if the choice is him or someone I don't know, its him, every time.

As an aside, if you end up in a neighborhood disaster, be the first one out there with your .22 knocking down pigeons and crows.

As far as police helping out...remember Katrina. MY guard unit was called to go help down there (I was already out by then), and the local police were of no help at all. They were, mostly, more of a hindrance, taking things, than a help. Now, mind you, this was IMMEDIATELY after the fact, and their PD at the time was fairly corrupt. The NG job down there was to recue folks, and prevent looting. I only heard of one person down there that my unit had run into that was set up to survive the disaster. He simply asked to be left alone, he had plenty of stuff, and, well, they did. No orders to distribute his rations, nothing like that. I think that, in a natural disaster of that magnitude, a neighbors call to the PD that someone has more than they do would be flatly ignored.
Law & order, in a large scale disaster, would likely break down. I think that this is largely due to the ay we're wired; most people, when it comes down to it, are out for their own skin; everything else comes second. Perhaps once the shock wears off, neighbors would group together. But, like others have said, I dont see being left alone for 6 long months here in the US. At that point, we either lost the war, were invaded by aliens, or voluntarily removed ourselves from society. Six months of food & water would work alot for bartering, but I would hope you could bget somewhere safer within those 6 months.

You say, with a totally straight face, "No, you won't."

And if/when they do, give them that old worn-out crappy fishing pole from a garage sale, and point them to the nearest body of water.

Keeps their expectations down, you save your food, and you can feed them too. Personally, I'd rather give them a means of getting their own food than giving away mine.

yeah, but the rest of the country would REALLY miss out on fresh produce in the middle of winter. Enjoy your scurvy, suckers! Hahahahaha...... (OK, I'm a little tired)

Lots of good ideas on here..
the best thing you can do is not advertise, but if its too late for that be ready to defend it.
For friends and neighbors just keep some small bags pre made for them..
Buy some big bags of rice and break it down using some quart size ziplocks, throw in some chicken and beef bullion as well as some packaged gray mix,
maybe some bags of beans
buy some big bags of hard candy to put a smile on the kids faces
maybe keep some extra hats and mittens or blankets for the kids in the neighbor hood..
you can see where i am going with that.. for very little money you can have a few of these bags set up, if they stop by you can make a big deal about how you didnt prepare as good as you thought and this is all you can spare, and let them know not to tell anyone where u got it from..
Your stash will be safe and they will be happy...

+1 on that thought

Do not advertise.
Do not 'show-off' as if you have more than you need.
Do not stand out.
As previously stated... you have nothing to spare your family needs it all.

Till you child needs to see the doctor or you need a plumber
etc.

Well, that's more of what the bartering larder is for. Even professionals need to consider upgrading supplies. The bartering larder is not considered spare either, it has its purpose.

This is easy. In fact, I practice for just this scenario every year on the night of Oct. 31. The shutters get closed, the deadbolts are thrown, the front porch light gets turned off, as do all the lights in the front of the house, and all the doors and windows on the sides and back of the house are barred (best burglar alarm there is, and there's no monthly fee or pet food needed). I am "not home" for all intents and purposes. Not that I'm a curmudgeon or anything like that.

My coworkers and neighbors have exactly the same advance warning of disaster and opportunity to prepare that I have. Warnings to prepare are plastered all over the buses and billboards in our county because we live in earthquake country, and expecting someone else to share their stash is NOT planning. Modern history (Nazi Germany, Rwanda, other places with societal breakdown) is full of stories of how quickly friends and neighbors will victimize others as soon as it is in their best interest to do so. I am not uncharitable, but I am not stupid either. Of course I would probably quietly share with persons I have an established relationship with and whose history with me holds promise of mutual assistance (a couple neighbors are construction professionals, another is just a darned upbeat person to have around).

Seattle is earthquake country? I lived there for two decades and it was a fleeting concern best. The lone best example in the last 1,000 years being a few years back when a rumbler hit downtown. The larger issue for preparation I believe would be winter storms, power failures and possible flooding.

Thou shalt study the area thou lives in. Amazing what you can learn. You might want to stop and consider , oh maybe, Volcanos also?

That is a very good point. I meant to put that in but forgot. The threat of Mt. St. Helens is now highly monitored and the damages estimated no where near May 18, 1980, which I lived through.

Mt. Rainer is the obvious target and the continued city encroachment is concerning. The more people living around it's slopes does not bode well for life lost through seismic activity or God forbid a full eruption. If the winds go northbound or southbound, Seattle or Portland becomes graveyards worse than Katrina.

The true blessing of Mt. St. Helens is that the winds traveled mostly to the east and plume of ash was mostly drawn that direction.

Seattle and the surrounding areas are prone to power outages from winter storms which knock down trees. This can leave homes without power in frigid conditions for several hours to days. Occasionally winter storms will lay ice and snow down and its difficult to get around the steep hills in town and in surrounding areas. The major thorough fares are generally not down for long.

There is also issues with flooding conditions in the spring as snow melt and spring rain over saturate the ground and rivers. Not an issue impacting everyone in the Seattle area but certainly potential victims in those areas at risk need to plan a stay or quick egress to safety.

I know when my crews from a previous life were up that way installing cell sites WA and OR were as strict or more strict than CA. (Seismic Code Wise)

One other thing to consider with Mt. Rainer is LAHAR.

Look it up, it is worse than initial eruption damage and your stomping grounds are in what I call the "Downrange Impact Area"

I lived and played in the shadow of Mt. Rainier during most of my childhood. It is going to be no different than living around the caldera in Wyoming, or along the California coast, or the Alaskan Coast, or the Mississipi. There are darned few geographical locations in North America that aren't setup with some sort of inherent risk. You rolls the dice, you takes your chances.

Agreed. We recently had a 3.5 or so earthquake here in Dallas. At least they say we did, I slept thru it I guess. I will say it was something I had never considered here. Just mother nature keeping us on our toes.

I came in late on this thread.

It is a good, and appropriate, moral dilemma for this group. You do not know what you will do until you face the situation. If you do not think through it, you may end up doing something totally wrong based on bad data.

Having served in some humanitarian aid situations where the people sere REALLY starving, the ones who survived were the ones with a strong sense of community, with leadership which pulled them together and made them work together to ensure that everyone was taken care of. The ones who were only looking out for themselves, or even just their family, did not improve their situation in spite of tons of food aid. Once the aid and security went away, they reverted to tearing each other apart.

I do not know what I would do other than ensure that my family survived. There are so many variables and too many different types of situations to say definitely what I would do. I have made hard decisions before, but I can't predict the future.