As with everything, there are problems. Most public walkie-talkies sold today are FRS/GMRS combo radios. This means they operate at 2W on GMRS and don't have a removable antenna. Older GMRS-only radios went up to 5 watts, most had removable antennas so you could put a decent on on the radio or use one on top of the house or car with a long enough cable, and some were repeatable capable. Oh, well. GMRS does not "generally" require a license in the US. A license is required. Virtually no one has one, though because of the combo radios. There are no GMRS purpose-built mobile radios being made that I'm aware of - I'd welcome information. Many of us are using commercial radios that cover the GMRS frequency but have limitations in hardware - no keypad, for example, requiring programming the frequencies and PL codes by computer.

Combo radios are a half-watt on FRS, usually 2W on GMRS, and they can't do repeater splits. The antenna is pretty sucky.

All handhelds are limited by the antenna, regardless of the wattage and service (GMRS, FRS, MURS, or ham). MURS antennas are fairly expensive because of the low demand. I bought a cheap pair from Amazon, and one failed after the first use - the transmit button stuck on, the radio wouldn't power off while the button was stuck, so I took the batteries out. Cheap radios suck, because they fail when you need them.

Someone else has explained the so-called privacy codes. You still get interference when you try to transmit. CTCSS or PL tones or privacy codes don't create a private channel, eliminate cross talk or do anything other than keeping your squelch from being broken by someone not using your tone. Louise and I go to Burning Man, and GMRS/FRS is useless because you've got a few tens of thousands of people on the couple of dozen frequencies, and it doesn't matter what your 'privacy code' is, there's someone on it.

Louise and I use GMRS a lot. My suggestion is to use the radios, instead of just sticking them in a box or car or bag somewhere. We take them with us when we fly ("Hey, hon, they just called our flight - have you got our coffee yet?"), when we travel ("Hey, hon, the tank's full. Have you got our coffee yet?"), and when we shop in those big box stores ("Hey, hon, come see these coffee mugs with flames on the sides!"). I'd suggest getting a license and actually using the radio! Wow! What a thought.

Conversely, Louise and I are amateur radio operators, too. If you want a really useable radio, get your ham license and get on the repeaters in your area. Volunteer at public events (walk-a-thons, run-a-thons, bike-a-thons) and use the radios with other hams so you get known as reliable communicators, and you can help out in disasters.

Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't thought about volunteer events communication before.

BTW, I went and purchased the Cobra 7020s (camouflaged version) as they were on sale at Canadian Tire the other day. Reg $129 Sale $89 minus the "CT-money" credits I had = very cheap! Almost free!
http://www.cobra.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=429&category_ID=29

The Midlands do not seem to have much of a sales base here in Canada so outside of ordering from EBay, it's wasn't going to happen - I can't find them retail locally. BTW, they would have to be CSA approved before I could bring them up here anyway. As it turns out, the web sites that I checked seemed to give the nod to the Cobras over the Midlands for range (2.2 miles vs 1.5 miles in heavy urban).

I asked a co-worker of mine to compare these with a pair of business radios (Motorolas). Mind you, those units use different business frequencies but they are in the same band as the GMRS radios. I couldn't use them for general purpose stuff because the frequencies are more restricted which means even if I managed to get a hold of them, I would only be able to communicate with other business radios! Not very practical and probably not legal. They have them because of the need to penetrate into building cavities while performing maintenance work. Business are not supposed to be using GMRS radios either.

He previously tried a pair of older less capable Cobras before going with the business radios; my radios worked in all the same locations they compared them with the commercial radios! Actually these had a longer outdoor range! I was impressed that these consumer grade equipment matched the heavier business quality equipment for half the retail cost.

I researched a bit more and found out that all handhelds in Canada cannot access the repeater channels by law and the max. a handheld can be is a 2-watt ERP output. The government knew that policing the licensing of these radios would be next to impossible so instead the regulated the supplier side of the equation instead of the consumer side. The units I have are 5-watt input, 1.78 watts measured ERP which means there is headroom to go before the manufacturers actually produce a full 2-watt radio. (Most consumer grade radios are only approx 1-watt ERP despite what the manufacturers claim!) I suspect that the biggest factor in not putting a even higher quality unit is the battery usage and drain that it would take. The circuitry would have to be more efficient and the battery even larger than the 1500 mah li-ion batteries these Cobras have. The batteries in this unit are really quite large - ie about the total size of my cell-phone! They pack considerably more energy then the AA or AAA batteries the competition uses. Stand-by time is 2 days vs the 12 hours of some other units. Big brick-like radios will probably won't be as marketable as today's smaller units.

I had a pair of 14 channel, 1/2 watt, AAA battery, FRS radios a few years ago but I didn't like the range so I gave them to my brother to use at the family farm. In the wide open prairies, he does get 2 miles from those 1/2 watt units but then again EVERYWHERE is direct line of sight at the farm when you don't have any trees!

I've got to do some more real world testing of these units - they are beginning to grow on me so far! (However, eavesdropping on a couple idiots on a beer run is really not that fascinating!) The other feature I like is the NOAA weather radio (channel 1 in my area). This will be great for my backcountry hiking. Secondly, I am going to add some screen protectors so the display doesn't get all scratched up.

Privacy codes are a misnomer - all they really allow you to do is clean up the incoming signals on a channel so that you can isolate the conversation that you want to participate in. It does nothing to prevent others from listening to YOU. Although Motorola seems to have found some way of scrambling the signal so that it is less intelligible to those trying to listen in on your conversation. This also makes communication between a Motorola unit and other unit a bit more challenging (or so I've read...)

Advertising claims for range are not just wildly exaggerating the usability of the units but they border on misleading or false advertising. Something needs to be done to get them to be more honest with the consumer. So many people have returned units to stores because the hype turned out not to be true and they went away disappointed or they returned them for an even higher priced model to get a "bit more range"!
- 2 watt handsets range has 25-30 miles in theory (mountain top to mountain top!)
- 2 watt handsets range of 2-3 miles in practise
- range over open water is roughly 7 miles for a 6' person to talk to another 6' person due to curvature of the earth and line of sight

Myself and a couple friends have the Garmin Rhino's. I'll admit we haven't had a lot of "play" time testing range yet. 2 of us on the plains of Wyoming had NO problem transmitting up to 3 miles without walking outside the house with metal siding. Haven't had the chance for all 3 of us to play in the hills yet. I do have to say the option of sending your location, a waypoint, or even an entire route to your friends is awesome! They are very tough, very water resistant and the 110's and 120's can be had in decent shape used pretty cheap for what you get. They also can send text messages like a cell phone. That works pretty well in spotty reception areas since just like a cell phone you only need reception for a moment for the message to go through. The 130's even have weather channels.

Philip,
Although my ID here is KC2IXE, that's my old call, been KG2V for a while - was EC of Queens NYC - now an AEC due to health issues.

Your are 100% right about ham radio, and ditto about the fact that almost no one gets the license for GMRS (like back in the days when you were supposed to get a CB license - remember thoses days?

RE Burning man and PL tones - did you try with Digital codes?

Other thing - if you get the right "commercial" radio (say a GE MPA system/MRK II) you can setup the "up/down" keys to change channel, and put the PL tone on what is usually the channel knob, and never have to worry again - you get all your GMRS freqs, and your choice of PL tone

I use my handheld cb all the time when traveling. Wife and kids in the truck and I go in the rest area and radio back asking if they want anything from the vending machine. I have to remember to change off of channel 19 or I get yelled at by a truck driver though
I was looking at those garmin rhinos, I might pick up a couple frs/gmrs for bike riding and then upgrade to a rhino when my current gps gets too old.

The "privacy tones" or "privacy codes" (as Moto calls them now) is a silent signal that is broadcast everytime the FRS/GMRS is transmitting.

Only if the receiving radio is set to use the same channel and privacy code - OR set to privacy code '0' (not using any privacy code), will you hear the transmission. Radios set to privacy code '0' will turn on for all transmissions on the selected channel.

If the receiving radio is on a different channel, you will not hear the transmission.

If the receiving radio is on the same channel, but using a different privacy code, you will not hear the transmission.

The thing to keep in mind is that regardless of the privacy code use, all radios using channel X (whichever you're using) use that same channel to broadcast. So, if two nearby groups are using the same channel, they are all transmitting using the same frequency. It is to get cross-talk on the frequency - two people transmitting on the same channel at the same time. In that case one of the groups should agree to move to an unused channel to avoid the cross-talk.

I don't think Motorola makes any pure FRS radios anymore. I think they are all FRS/GMRS hybrids. I've read lots of debate about whether people in the U.S. are allowed to transmit on the GMRS frequencies using those radios (since they usually transmit at higher Wattage). I've never heard a final answer on that. I got my GMRS license and simply don't worry about it.

Because antenna height has so much to do with the transmission range, I know of some people who use external antennas and hoist them up into nearby trees. Of course that's tough to do if you're wandering around the forest.

Someday I figure they'll come out with a relatively low-cost SPOT-like product that uses satellites to broadcast/receive text messages. Put that into a GPS and you have a nifty product. Now that would be cool.

> RE Burning man and PL tones - did you try with Digital codes?

The GMRS radios I have don't have digital codes, just the ham radios. Fortunately, there are few enough hams on the playa that we don't need to worry about crowding on those bands. :-)

I can see that - I happen to use commercial rigs that are type accepted in both bands, so I can use GMRS, and had one to SWMBO or my Daughter

For anyone interested, I noticed the recent "sale flyer" from Dicks' Sporting Goods has a special price on a 2-pack of the Midland radios; about $60.00 after the mail-in rebate ... Dick's Weekly Ads

The ad does not specify the model of the radios, but it does say "30-mile range"; so, hopefully, that is one of the better models such as the GXT800 or GXT900.
Also, unless I am missing something, this appears to be an in-store deal only ... it does not appear to be available online at their web site.
I don't like the hassle of mail-in rebates; but, overall, this might be a pretty good deal.

One "interesting" think you can do with GMRS'only' radios (FRS radios are NOT allowed to have removeable antennas), and Hams do all the time

There is a thing called a "pocket J-Pole" antenna - you do have to design them for the frequencies in question, and I have NOT looked for a plan for GMRS (hey, I can go on 2m or 70CM)

The are basically made with a piece of 300 Ohm 'twin lead' television wire - so they roll up quite nicely, and they have a LOT more gain than the "rubber duckie" antennas you typically find on an HT

Go here http://w4gbu.home.mindspring.com/jpole.htm

and use 462.75 as the frequency - of course that doesn't work for 300 ohm foldups

http://blog.mecworks.com/articles/2005/02/27/gmrs-j-pole/