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#156155 - 11/23/08 06:13 PM Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Ok, first responders and ER types, I have a question.

Are you seeing a sharp increase in motorcycle accidents related to people seeking alternate transportation in these times of costly fuel and "going green".

Here in my small area of DFW, there have been 8 major MC accidents in the last 4 months. That is WAY up from previous year. Three have either happened in front of me, or I drove up just as the dust settled.

Normally my vehicle FAK needs replenished due to "boo boo's", once a year.
This summer alone I had to restock major blood stopping stuff twice. (all three involved fatalities either DRT or DOA hospital)

It has actually gotten to the point, that I recognized one of the flight nurses from two scenes.

Aside from Kerlix and tons of Guaze any suggestions.

Also, if you are in an area of multiple jurisdictions, KNOW WHERE YOU ARE. I bounced thru four 911 operators before I demanded to talk to the town I was in (Cell Phone). Once I got authoritative, (not nasty) they understood and sent help.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#156159 - 11/23/08 08:55 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
kd7fqd Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Saratoga Springs,Utah,USA
In the Greater Wasatch Area (Oqden to Provo) we really haven't seen "large" increases in accidents (I think 2 over same time last year) Any Hooo just carring a FAK over nothing is commendable, Like you stated "tons" of Kerlex, 4x4's is by far the safest and least expensive way to go. After you do the "inital" control the bleeding, rescue is not that far off.


Mike
Trauma Tech
EMT
_________________________
EDC: Samsung Galaxy Note 2,DR PSK, Swiss Army Champ, Leatherman Blast
My Blog emergencybobs.wordpress.com


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#156160 - 11/23/08 09:18 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: kd7fqd]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Thanks. Last one was not fun. Just came to a rest as I pulled up. NO HELMET! Don't get me started on that one, as I hate wearing them but do because I hate the thought of my pumpkin hitting the ground without one. (9 concussions already from Motocross and 3wheelers [just dated myself] even with skid lids)

I was alone and saw the guy go down.
Got the HD off his back. Help arrived right about then.
Cleared about a pound of dirt, rocks and grass out if nose and mouth which was under his torso face almost to chest. (didn't move the head)
Worked on bleeders due to his trip thru wire fence.
Called 911 because no one who pulled up was that bright. (yeah I should have multi-tasked but hind sight = 20/20)
When I finally fought thru 4 911 services, this guy was already breathing like he was snoring (Cant remember proper term). Told 911 to start Care-Flight along with EMS due to bleeding / breathing / No Helmet.
Could hear helo in distance when 1st ground unit (LEO) pulled up.
While EMS packaged him up, LEO's and I set LZ while helo orbited (power line were issue) Then EMS washed me up some and replenished my FAK. That was really nice.

Didn't turn out well sadly.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#156173 - 11/23/08 11:40 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Having worked a jillion murdercycle accidents over the years, assuming you are talking a solo vehicle crash, you will see lots of road rash, which hurts like the blazes, 'specially when they take the scrub brush to it in the ER, but won't kill you, and neck/head injuries. I would worry most about airway and C-spine precautions. If it is the left turn right of way type crash, where a car made a left turn right in front of the cycle, head/neck/internal. All of which can not be fixed in the field. I would insure an airway, immobilize as best you can (that will include other "helpers" from jumping in and doing damage), stop any major bleeds (lots of 4x4's), and wait for help. If this happens to be on a busy highway, hope for an ER dr, nurse, or paramagic to stop, then know what they are doing. If a procologist stops to help, don't let him, he has probably forgotten any emergency stuff years ago...
_________________________
OBG

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#156180 - 11/24/08 02:14 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: OldBaldGuy]
el_diabl0 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 301
Loc: NE Ohio
I am not a first responder, but I did recently lose a friend to this exact thing. He had bought a scooter to save $$ on gas and have a lower impact on the environment, and was hit by a car about 6 weeks ago.
_________________________
Improvise, adapt, and overcome

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#156182 - 11/24/08 02:36 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: OldBaldGuy]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
which hurts like the blazes, 'specially when they take the scrub brush to it in the ER.... If a procologist stops to help, don't let him, he has probably forgotten any emergency stuff years ago...


Scrubbing out the road rash doesn't have to hurt-a kindly ER type can use topical lidocaine products, if they choose to do so. Which they usually don't.Call it part of the patient education program... Proctologists can be dangerous at the scene-a friend found one at an mvc (that the proctologist had caused by running a light). The doc had a big bottle of injectable morphine in his black bag, and was administering it iv to the otherwise untreated little old ladies in the other car. The lawsuit dragged on for ages, but the professional misconduct proceeding went real fast.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#156185 - 11/24/08 02:53 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: nursemike]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I guess that I should have added that back in one of the gas shortages of the late '70's-early '80's, I thought about buying a murdercycle to save us money on my daily 19 mile commute to work. Looked at a used 500 or so cc bike. Then did the math, cost of bike, cost of additional registration and insurance, bike mileage as opposed to my Toyota P/U. Figured I would have to ride it every day 'bout nine months a year for something like NINE years before I would start to show a profit. Going to a bike ain't gonna save all that much! (well, maybe a Vespa or something, but not a REAL murdercycle)...
_________________________
OBG

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#156188 - 11/24/08 03:40 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Jakam
Unregistered


Here in Cali, they are proud to zip in between lanes, and in between cars, it's legal to split the middle like that, we see at least 1 crash a week.

Folks seem to be too aggressive on the road to make motorcycles a safe bet these days.

But riding a bicycle on the street scares me these days, people aren't good at "sharing the road".

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#156189 - 11/24/08 04:47 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
----"Here in my small area of DFW, there have been 8 major MC accidents in the last 4 months. That is WAY up from previous year. Three have either happened in front of me, or I drove up just as the dust settled."----

I forgot to mention the 8 Major accidents (meaning a helicopter was needed) happened in an area 4 miles long on a single state highway, and the "older 2 lane version" of same highway that parallels it 1/4 mile away.

Does not include Minor (no air ambulance) or two overnight hit and runs that were not found until daylight.

Pass on to those considering taking up two wheels for the first time: Please learn to ride safely for the conditions around you, and obtain the proper attitude and safety equipment BEFORE riding in traffic. Motorcycle Safety Foundation and Harley Davidson provide several courses, that I promise will help equip to survive the roads.

_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#156201 - 11/24/08 01:09 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Desperado- thanks for being willing and able to help.

While saving gas is nice, not being dead or injured takes precedence. I think folks seriously underestimate the risks they are running.

I ride a motorcycle but not as a commuter alternative. I ride more like recreational flying - optional whether to go at all, pick your conditions, only go if feeling at the top of your game.

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#156209 - 11/24/08 02:34 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: unimogbert]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
I think folks seriously underestimate the risks they are running.

Could be why we call bikers "organ donars"!
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#156216 - 11/24/08 03:07 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Desperado, are these solo accidents or car vs bike accidents that you are seeing? I just ask because it's not just new riders that are a growing problem, but drivers who are not careful enough to watch for motorcycles.

Regarding the motorist part of the safety equation, I'm visiting my mom in San Francisco for Thanksgiving and I have to turn up the "radar" a notch when I drive here because of all the bicyclists in San Francisco compared to down in SoCal where I live. In particular, I make sure to signal and make a little extra effort to look before making right turns or before opening the driver's side door when parked on the street (had a lot of close calls when I used to bicycle here a lot myself). For drivers, just being aware of the possibility of a small bicycle being somewhere near your vehicle is half the challenge of driving safely since bicycles, like motorcycles, can be places where you normally wouldn't expect a car, like a motorcycle splitting lanes down the left side of your stopped car or a bicycle riding at a good clip in the bike lane on your right.

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#156217 - 11/24/08 03:25 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: unimogbert]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
Desperado- thanks for being willing and able to help.
I ride a motorcycle but not as a commuter alternative. I ride more like recreational flying - optional whether to go at all, pick your conditions, only go if feeling at the top of your game.


I do it because I hope someone would do so for me.

Same reasons I ride. All should consider alternate ID like dog tags. Years ago when I went down on asphalt, the first thing to go was a down jacket (looked like a pillow fight where I first hit). The second was my wallet when the butt of my Levi's burned through.

I have "custom dog tags" with ID info and contacts on them plus a USB thumb drive with that and Medical records. Hopefully I don't need it, but if so I hope it is noticed and helps.

I shall discuss USB later.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#156219 - 11/24/08 03:35 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Arney]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
[quote=Arney]Desperado, are these solo accidents or car vs bike accidents that you are seeing? I just ask because it's not just new riders that are a growing problem, but drivers who are not careful enough to watch for motorcycles.

Some of each, but the three I have witnessed / helped at were single vehicle. One was DWI + lack of experience + too much speed for curve. The other two lack of experience + too much speed for conditions.

Ones not witnessed (local paper) were combination of above and left turn vehicle into motorcycle right of way.

As far as bicycles, mostly car vs kid. While it is the motor vehicle operators responsibility to not hit kids on bikes, I do not see that adults are teaching kids to be safe like they used to.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#156220 - 11/24/08 03:43 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...I do not see that adults are teaching kids to be safe like they used to..."

Most kids I have talked to about riding their bikes against the flow of traffic, instead of with it as required by CA law, said that is what their parents told them to do. Most kid on bike crashes I worked involved a car making a right turn at an intersection, or when entering a highway from private property. Driver looked left for oncoming traffic, didn't see the kid riding up from the right, kid t-bones car in the right side. Most kids wear helmets as required in CA, few fasten the chin strap.

Re bikes and adults, I rarely see an adult on a bike stop for a stop sign, they just pedal right on thru, sometimes at pretty high speed. When questioned, they always respond "but I'm on a bike!"...
_________________________
OBG

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#156222 - 11/24/08 03:49 PM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
[quote=OldBaldGuyRe bikes and adults, I rarely see an adult on a bike stop for a stop sign, they just pedal right on thru, sometimes at pretty high speed. When questioned, they always respond "but I'm on a bike!"...
[/quote]
Same with red lights here. Bicyclists rarely follow traffic law. I often yell at them and say
"You have to follow the law too!"
At which point many then raise their hand and show off their "IQ" finger


Edited by SBRaider (11/24/08 03:50 PM)
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#156286 - 11/25/08 01:02 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: Desperado]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Desperado

Are you seeing a sharp increase in motorcycle accidents related to people seeking alternate transportation in these times of costl...


Absolutely!

In fact, these wrecks are all happening at the same place, we've had DOZENS of them since May, where normally, we'd only have 4 or 5.

The first few times, when we called Medevac, we gave coordinates (right at the scene in an open lawn) and then they did the usual circle twice, then ease in slow for a landing that they do at an unfamiliar LZ.

After a few more calls, they still took coordinates, and circled once, and landed in the LZ.

By the 10th call for a motorcycle wreck at the same location, we just told them "Chestnut Ridge LZ" and they came in like there was a big "H" painted on the ground - no coordinates needed.

I have to admit that I learned more about major trauma this summer than in the past 6 years of being a firefighter thanks to all the motorcycle wrecks.


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#156289 - 11/25/08 01:15 AM Re: Trauma, Motorcycles and Expensive Fuel [Re: MartinFocazio]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Originally Posted By: Desperado

Are you seeing a sharp increase in motorcycle accidents related to people seeking alternate transportation in these times of costl...


Absolutely!

In fact, these wrecks are all happening at the same place, we've had DOZENS of them since May, where normally, we'd only have 4 or 5.

The first few times, when we called Medevac, we gave coordinates (right at the scene in an open lawn) and then they did the usual circle twice, then ease in slow for a landing that they do at an unfamiliar LZ.

After a few more calls, they still took coordinates, and circled once, and landed in the LZ.

By the 10th call for a motorcycle wreck at the same location, we just told them "Chestnut Ridge LZ" and they came in like there was a big "H" painted on the ground - no coordinates needed.

I have to admit that I learned more about major trauma this summer than in the past 6 years of being a firefighter thanks to all the motorcycle wrecks.



Re the LZ. I have seriously considered some kind of smoke signal device and an aviation radio in the truck kit. One time the helo beat everyone on scene as it was on return trip from another flight. A smoke gives'em wind, radio to discuss hazards. (Wont do it, but the old Air Assault days keep coming to mind)
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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