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#156660 - 11/30/08 03:27 AM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: RobertRogers]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Oops, boiling it for zero minutes won't eliminate any pathogens.

I think you need to boil water for at least a few minutes to get rid of most pathogens.

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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
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#156662 - 11/30/08 03:42 AM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: benjammin]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I think the moment that the water reaches its boiling point, technically whatever you're trying to kill is dead. The reason you're told to boil it is just so there's no guessing if the water is hot enough... If I recall correctly...

I read that in an thread here in the forums. Can anyone back this up, or have I lost my marbles?

In any case, I'd probably let it go for a couple of minutes at a boil because I'm paranoid. laugh
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#156669 - 11/30/08 04:20 AM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: Nicodemus]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Water must be boiled vigorously for at least a minute to get rid of giardia and cryptosporidium would probably take longer. Most other pathogens (fecal coliform, ameobas, viruses) are destroyed after a shorter period, but if you've ever had a case of giardiasis, as I have, you will gladly boil that water for the full minute, and maybe then some.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#156670 - 11/30/08 04:29 AM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: benjammin]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Nicodemus
I think the moment that the water reaches its boiling point, technically whatever you're trying to kill is dead. The reason you're told to boil it is just so there's no guessing if the water is hot enough... If I recall correctly...

I read that in an thread here in the forums. Can anyone back this up, or have I lost my marbles?

In any case, I'd probably let it go for a couple of minutes at a boil because I'm paranoid. laugh



Originally Posted By: benjammin
Water must be boiled vigorously for at least a minute to get rid of giardia and cryptosporidium would probably take longer. Most other pathogens (fecal coliform, ameobas, viruses) are destroyed after a shorter period, but if you've ever had a case of giardiasis, as I have, you will gladly boil that water for the full minute, and maybe then some.


Now then,

I was taught several different theories. Latest news it that once it is at a "roiling boil" that is enough.

But like Benjammin said it only takes one sample of giardiasis to convince ME that the small amount of extra time really couldn't hurt.
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#156725 - 12/01/08 03:56 AM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: Desperado]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I quote my information as provided by the US EPA, and a host of other online official sources. One minute at hard boil seemed to be the SOP recommendation.

If you can get the water to a boil, keeping it there for a minuts shouldn't be much more of a challenge.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#156739 - 12/01/08 12:53 PM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: Nicodemus]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Nicodemus
I think the moment that the water reaches its boiling point, technically whatever you're trying to kill is dead. The reason you're told to boil it is just so there's no guessing if the water is hot enough... If I recall correctly...

I read that in an thread here in the forums. Can anyone back this up, or have I lost my marbles?
That's pretty much right. Also, at lower temperatures it takes longer. By the time it's reached boiling, the water will be both hot enough and for long enough. The EPA etc tend to give very conservative guidelines for obvious reasons.

Here's a link:
http://www.marinemedical.com/articles/water.htm

I found other links that say Giardia is killed at 135°F (57°C) and Cryptosporidiosis is killed at 149°F (65°C) (presumably it takes at least a minute).
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#156751 - 12/01/08 03:25 PM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: Brangdon]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Some of these recommendation probably are to take in the effects of altitude.

I live at 6000 ft and water boils somewhere around 200 F. If you were a backpacker
at 13000 ft in the Sierra or Colorado, the temperature for boiling would be quite
a bit lower than that.


http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oboilcalc.html

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#156760 - 12/01/08 05:15 PM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: clearwater]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I'm telling ya, ya wants to boils that dust-speck a while or it'll git ya!

This is one of those ounce of prevention=several kilos worth of cure kinda precautions.

Better to overboil it and not need it, than to underboil it and get a parasitic infection.

Don't say I didn't warn ya. Been there, done that, don't ever want to do it again. The EPA guideline ain't that conservative, more of a minimum.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#157156 - 12/05/08 12:31 AM Re: Is a Million Gallons Enough? [Re: benjammin]
Resqdan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 9
Loc: ND
I have to agree with 'benjammin' on this one.. dont care what the minimum is... i have had Giardia.. and let me tell you that you do not want it.. it wipes you out.. and you will be worthless to everyone.. just boil it good and hard if thats the way your gonna kill the stuff...Dont take the chance..!!

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