Totally agree with the Israeli method of this scenario. I didn't stop to think of that.

As I put in my first post, the ideas I had were very IFF'y at best. I really think any armed resistance would have been good, but probably futile given the surroundings.

Really glad I never had to find out.

I believe Schindler's list portrays the whole concept quite effectively. By the time it was obvious what was going to happen, it was too late for most to offer any sort of resistance, short of stepping up and taking a bullet.

In school we discussed it and we were all fairly adamant that we wouldn't let such be done to us; that we would've fought them, but watching the movie, it's easy to see how, over a long period of gradual escalation, people could allow such a thing to be done to them.

As Tom_L alludes to above, the conditions favorable to the rise of and the practices of Nazi Germany took place over many years.

Without drawing specific parallels between the politics, economic situations, increasing surveillance of citizens, control of media/use of propaganda, etc. between Germany from the Weimar Republic to Nazi rule and, say, more recent U.S.A., it is definitely instructive to consider how current situations might require a well-equipped person to think and plan for scenarios unfamiliar to most U.S. citizens.

Put another way, there comes a point where one wonders if he's not living large in a hot tub but slowly being boiled alive.

Talk a little about guns in Israel, if you will. I have a naive and uninformed vision of armed teachers and a population educated through universal draft to the use of the uzi and the galil. Is private gun ownership permitted?

An interesting topic.

Lots of people seem to think that if the Fascists were to rise up again they will come in wearing swastikas and jack boots. The reality is that they will come dressed in suits with promises of a better way of life.

One would do well to read Umberto Eco's essay on Eternal PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. or the 14 defining characteristics of PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. by Lawrence Britt.

If you want an excellent fictional account of life in pre and post-war Berlin and the rise of the Nazis, not to mention a damn good detective novel, read a copy of "Berlin Noir".

John E

I agree, we must be vigilant. I see things happening right now that I don't like, although it's debatable which way it will go.

My Mom, being from Holland, was in the Dutch Underground in WW2. One of her brothers was caught sending messages in morse code over the phone lines and was sent to a concentration camp, I think it was Bergen Belsen. They didn't talk about it much, but he survived. He was not quite right mentally for the rest of his life, but nobody blamed him. The rest of her family were very active in the resistance, she was a Pharmacist's apprentice, and had a pass to be out after curfew to deliver medications to people. She would smuggle messages for the Allies in the handlebars of her bicycle.

Talk about some brave people. One of her older sisters housed a Jewish family in her apartment during the war, and got a stipend from the Dutch govt. for doing that for the rest of her life. My grandmother, from a Jewish family (but converted to Catholicism) had to wear the Star of David throughout the war. One of my uncles was Patton's interpreter - talk about some of his stories...

I'll see if I can't get any more of the concentration camp stories from my Uncle. Unfortunately, I don't have too many left.

I had an old Russian professor who fought for the Soviets, was captured and held in a concentration camp by the Nazis, escaped, captured by the Soviets and held in a concentration camp as a spy / traitor (for being captured by Nazis), escaped, and eventually made his way to America across Mongolia and China - which is a long way of saying he had an interesting perspective on persecuting totalitarian regimes in the 20th century. Anyway, he had an personal philosophy, that societies almost always trend one way or the other, long, slow slides into liberalism, long slow swings back towards PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. and totalitarian ideologies. "As long as the hippies are rioting in the streets Tolya far worse things can't be happening." I think there's some sense in that perspective. I know I feel more comfortable during times of liberalism, and uncomfortable especially for the past 8 years of Guantanamo, FISA wiretaps, torture - great concentrations of wealth and power. I don't mean to make a political statement either way, this period of concentrated wealth and power is to some extent pushed by members of both political parties. Goethe said, opportunity creates thieves. A healthy democracy requires that we speak truth to power, find allies and put a voice and bodies behind the tenets of our Constitution, and get in the way of those who would tear it down, brick by brick.

Last night I looked out my window. I saw my Chabbad nieghbors walking to temple. Dark frock coats at sundown are a bad idea and my ETS LED winked into the darkness after a short rabbinical council when my superior logic won out.Now I need a new LED, little Avi the proud new owner.
My gas station is owned by Sikhs. Sikhs have been in California for 5 generations and own a good number of the central Valley farmlands.
Sikhs are upset. A man killed his daughter's rapist and is in jail. The guards took away his turban ( he can hang himself) and issued a statement they weren't anti islamic. Brilliant, Sikhs aren't moslems.
My black nieghbor, who is lighter than most of the tanned surfers in Malibu is upset. Our other nieghbor put up Christmas lights already and they shine into his window.I explained our nieghbors (from India) have a light festival this time of year and he has this really, really neat apartment feature, and check it out, as I demonstrated the curtains.
I was eating panzit, lumpia and San Miguel beer, gift from my retired navy nieghbor for Veteran's Day.

My point (yes, I have one) is this country is an ever more diverse nation united by ideas.the more you know about your nieghbors, the less differences there actually are, and being a jew,black,sikh or filipino is no different than being irish or worse.

Start thinking like that, and nazis, or their ilk become comedic foils for Jake and Elwood.

Each and all members of this forum should heed the example above, as it is the best and most informative "Urban Survival" information I have gained from this or any other website.

Coming from a childhood where racism was almost handed down as birthright from some of my older relatives, life has been an enlightening experience once I opened my eyes to the reality that we really can all get along.

Maybe if we take the chance and get to know all of those around us, we will discover that we really aren't all that different.

Very nicely put Chris.

It must be hard to tell whether one is over-reacting, especially if you don't know the full details of the "labour camps".

I have felt a bit uneasy about attitudes to smokers in the UK - they are sometimes treated as second-class citizens, as dirty and disgusting, segregated in restaurants etc, and generally not deserving of sympathy. They are an easy target. It almost certainly is over-reacting to take this case too seriously, but I think it shows the attitudes are still very much part of the human condition. (I'm a non-smoker, by the way.)