"I've certainly learnt a lesson, never argue with a gun enthusiast "
????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I know my english is not that good and I certainly cannot detect all the subtilities and nuances in those posts, but ....

... I don't understand what you mean by "learnt lesson" :
- IMHO all the posts in this thread are very polite ; to me, it looks like the most courteous exchange of opinions I have ever seen about that delicate subject ;
- everybody said you are entitled to your opinion ; they simply tried to express theirs, as you seemed interested ;
- if by "never argue ..." you mean you are disappointed because they do not share your own opinion, well ... that's life .... <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Back to the arguments exchanged up to now :
- reading your starting post, it seems England is a wonderful land to live in : no ordinary decent citizen is subject to violent crime !! All your muggers are quite decent too, they just want some money, and would never even think about knocking you about a bit or raping your wife/girlfriend, not after you giving so kindly your money away ... that's what I call "fair-play" ! <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
(in another criminal area : have IRA people decided to never again bomb or gun down folks in the U.K. ??)
- there are laws in EVERY contries forbidding criminals to have guns ; those laws doesn't PREVENT them to have guns (hey!! they are outlaws !!!), those laws just allow to punish them somemore once they are caught ...
- Only non criminal people (aka ordinary decent law abiding citizens <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) obey laws.
- IMHO (yes, I know, I have already used that acronym ! I don't know a lot of them <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />...), it makes sense that most criminals prefer un-armed potential victims ;
- I (calmly sitting in front of my computer) FULLY aggree with you : a few £ (or Euros or $ ...) are NOT worth a life, neither yours nor the one of your mugger. No TV set, no car ... is worth a life.
YOU (and I and other people on this forum too) know that.
But maybe your assaillant doesn't think so .... maybe be he is not thinking at all, except at the dose of crack your money will buy him .... <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Well, as many people say here, that was just my two cents (of Euro) worth opinion ...
( this post is not intended to be aggressive ; if you feel it is, please excuse me and put it on the fact I don't master english well enough)


Regards.

Alain

P.S. : I only recently saw that movie "ordinary decent criminals" ; delightful !! I enjoyed it very much, therefore the citations ....
but I fear all your criminals are not as fair as the character played by Kevin Spacey (fair enough to keep the killings among themselves).