#154255 - 11/04/08 01:27 PM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: ]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Stafford, VA, USA
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Personal responsibility, or the lack of it, drive most people to default to please rescue me mentality. There are ocean going sailors out there who purposely do not carry an EPIRB because is is their conviction that they are doing this and it is not someone else's responsibility to come rescue them. They carry liferafts, etc, but not a beacon. A broken down car in the field is not the same as an airplane crash, or even going into a ravine in a car. It was an inconvenience for them, that's all.
Going cross country instead of following the road, their decision. I would have taken the road as it is easier (generally) hiking, allbeit longer.
I have the same issue with people who first and foremost default to "carry a PLB". It is your responsibility to make sure that you can succeed in whatever adventure you are on, are properly equipped, and that you exhaust all other possibilities before punching 911. No one made you go, it was your choice.
Final note, just remember that the police are there to ask questions and arrest the guilty, not protect you. That is your responsibility since the bad guys outnumber the good guys by way too much.
Rant mode off,
Bill
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#154277 - 11/04/08 06:39 PM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: ]
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Veteran
Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
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Ok, so they have assessed the situation and decided that they can self rescue. From their knowledge, skill & situation etc that's a reasonable decision. As far as it goes.
However the issue that I have with this is that, having made the decision to walk out/self rescue, they chose to cut the corner by going across country. That's a bad judgement call. One mishap and your in very serious trouble.
In their shoes I would have stuck to the road. The road is a known quantity. Going across country is an invite to a busted ankle/sprain or worse.
Ok, its further. But shortcuts have a nasty habit of turning into long delays.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.
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#154288 - 11/04/08 07:48 PM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: ]
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Sheriff
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
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Stay put or hike out?
If you are out day fishing in a fairly remote area and your vehicle breaks down 23 km's (14 miles) from the nearest main logging road then 4 miles to pavement (and cell phone coverage). Would you stay put and await for help or hike out considering these circumstances:
- Two people (male/female) with food (2 days worth) and water (easily replenishable)
- Are in good physical/mental condition with strong outdoor and navigational skills (she is a former adventure racer)
- A detailed note was left with family as to where, when, what gear they had, and what time they expected to be back
- Proper clothing and footwear for the weather: 50- 60 F with some clouds and periods of very light rain
- Carried pertinent maps, compass and survival gear in their backpacks for time of year and terrain (a mix of PNW forest and interior open grasslands)
- Despite it's remoteness, both people know the area very well and have spent years, hiking, camping and fishing in this same area
This situation happened yesterday morning (11:45 am) to co-worker and her husband. Their car would not start and after an hour of trying, they realized that whatever was wrong with the car was beyond their ability to fix in the field. Rather then wait until nightfall and hope that their family would alert the authorities, after some discussion and review of their situation, the remoteness of the area and available gear, they decided to hike out.
They knew that by following the winding and looping road, it was a 23 km hike, however by hiking out cross country they could shave the distance by just under half. To their credit, they left a detailed letter in the car with their names, their personal descriptions and clothing, cell phone numbers, what gear, maps and compass they had, boot manufacturers / model / size. They also included a hand drawn map of the area and which direction they were taking. In short they left very little detail to chance.
Needless to say they hiked out with no issues and were able to use their cell phone to contact a family member who picked them up. Their car will be hauled out tomorrow on a flat deck.
In telling their story to family and now today at work, my co-worker privately told me that they have been roundly criticized for not staying put and waiting for help. I know both her and her husband well and have been on many extended outdoor trips with them over the years and they are very, very competent in the wilderness in general.
Do I think they did the right thing....I have somewhat mixed feelings. They know (and I know) what they are capable of....and their limitations. Part of me says they made the right decision, however one wrong mistake could of made that right decision very wrong.
Thoughts?? I don't see anything wrong with what they did. If they had planned a cross country hike, would anyone have said anything? They had the right equipment. They were familiar with the area and had proper nav equipment. They left a trip plan. No inclement wx was forecast. Why wait? Now if they didn't know the area or didn't have nav equipment or bad wx was forecast, or they didn't have equipment, or were there anything particularly dangerous or smacking of poor judgement, then I'd say wait in the car, but none of those circumstance exist in this case. Why not just hike out and "get the ball rolling" on getting the car into the shop and things set aright? Perhaps in this case the crucial issue is as if they had planned a cross country hike. As people have pointed out, there are dangers in cross country travel. Ideally, they would have (I assume they did) evaluated the risk involved with a cross country walk out prior to their setting out just as they would if they were planning a cross country hike. I wouldn't automatically say "go ahead and cut cross country" nor would I say "always stick to the road." Rather, I'd say "evaluate the cross country route just as you would were you planning to hike cross country, and then make your choice as to which way to hike out (or not)." Time of day and daylight hours remaining, the speed (or slowness) of cross country travel, and the difficulty of terrain, vegetation, and other natural obstacles would have to be evaluated. Based on the outcome, it appears that they evaluated things well. FWIW, some of the things I factor in when I plan cross country, off trail hikes: -Ease of navigation (Deep forest vs. good landmarks continuously visible. Followable terrain features?) -Steepness of terrain -Distance -Surface type (rocky, sandy, firm, boggy, etc.) -Brush (type, density, etc.) -Weather -Water or other obstacles (river crossing, swamp, etc.) -Season (snow on ground? How cold at night?) -Time (Can I make it by nightfall? How much margin do I have?) -Price of failure (What's the worst that can happen?)
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#154325 - 11/05/08 02:09 AM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: Hikin_Jim]
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Addict
Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
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I don't want to second guess the couple too much. Their decisions worked, and didn't get anyone else involved to sort out their mess.
But I agree with your assessment, terrain, weather, time of year and time of day would make my decision for me. If I was starting out after a full day of fishing or the weather had the potential of turning poor, I personally would probably wait until morning and then walk the road back on the road. The expectation being that if I don't make it out before rescuers are called, I can meet them on their way in. This option also helps make up for lack of detailed maps of the area. I'm used to walking with either 1:24,000 USGS, or 1:25,000 military topographic maps. Detailed enough to plot your position within a 10 meter square with a lensatic compass. If I just had a road atlas, I'd follow the road.
If I was starting out early in the day and the terrain and weather looked fine, I would probably follow the same course of action they did.
Its not a situation that really required rescue. It could have turned into one but so can showering. They did their duty to any rescuers though, by leaving a plan before they left home and before they left their car.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens
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#154341 - 11/05/08 04:31 AM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: ]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
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I'd have walked out following the road. Depending on the terrain, the straight shot may be rougher even though it's shorter.
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#154347 - 11/05/08 06:38 AM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: UTAlumnus]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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It was taking the road that would have been 18 miles, not that far, really. Cutting across country may have shortened the distance but not necessarily the time, but it did increase the danger. The constant need to hurry these days may kill or injure more people than necessary. Mahatma Gandhi was right, "There is more to life than increasing its speed".
Had they stayed with the road, they might have been able to flag down a ranger, or passerby and hitch a ride.
But they did okay.
Sue
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#154364 - 11/05/08 02:48 PM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: Susan]
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Sheriff
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
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It was taking the road that would have been 18 miles, not that far, really. Interesting. I hike a fair amount. I'd say 18 is a pretty good number of miles. It's somewhat terrain dependent (are you in flat country or the middle of the Rockies?), but still even at 3mph which is a pretty good walking speed for most folks, that's a minium of 6 hours walking not including any water breaks and the like. In hilly or difficult terrain, 2mph is more realistic, which would entail 9 hours of walking. Given that the event happened at about noon (in this case), 6 to 9 hours of walking this time of year may not be the way to go. Cutting across country may have shortened the distance but not necessarily the time, but it did increase the danger. True, XC travel doesn't necessarily cut your travel time. One has to make an assessment. Sometimes XC travel is a worthwhile savings; sometimes it's a fool's errand. STOP (Stop, Think, Observe, Plan) is a good one to keep in mind. You're absolutely right that the risk level generally goes up on XC travel and that it may not save you any time. One has to ask: "Is it worth it?"
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#154365 - 11/05/08 03:36 PM
Re: Stay put or hike out?
[Re: Hikin_Jim]
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"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
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In general a HUGE factor in the decision is whether or not you REALLY think that help will come looking for you.
In the situation described, it sounds like help would indeed have come ... eventually. Still, the people involved clearly felt they were prepared sufficiently to "self-rescue" and I don't have any problems with that.
I too would probably have stuck to the road, but then again, they knew about the terrain they'd be facing. I'm a sure thing kind of guy.
Ken K.
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