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#152826 - 10/22/08 01:59 PM Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool.
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Misidentified cottonmouth snake bites two students.

Turns out this snake had been kept in the classroom for several months. The teacher thought it was a harmless rat snake. eek

-Blast
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#152831 - 10/22/08 02:38 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: Blast]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
Yikes! I hope the kids are OK. I tried to open the article but the page timed out.
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#152832 - 10/22/08 02:48 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: Blast]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Other than a cottonmouth and a rat snake both typically being black in color (not always), I don't remember a whole lot in common between the two that would trigger a misidentification, especially if they were sitting there in a classroom being closely inspected (in an aquarium, small cage, or something small like that). The triangular head, the pits in front of the nostrils, the short fat body, the white inside of the mouth - sheesh, what a science teacher!

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#152837 - 10/22/08 03:08 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: ]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Wow. That top picture of a cottonmouth is not like the ones I've seen (and I've seen plenty). Maybe that's a juvenile? The ones I've seen are in central and south Texas and they are invariably very dark in color, appearing almost purely black with only a few faint markings. And the heads are a much more pronounced triangular shape as I recall. And they are all fat-ish. Maybe 4 to 4-1/2 feet long and as big around as your forearm.

I guess I owe that science teacher an apology. But I would still hope that any teacher would make sure, and then make sure again, that they had correctly identified the snake. I would have pegged that upper picture you posted to be more similar to a copperhead than a cottonmouth. But again, I remember more distinct triangular heads on those too. I live in Colorado now and we don't have cottonmouths/copperheads here, so I haven't seen anything but a scattered rattlesnake for years and years.

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#152866 - 10/22/08 07:01 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: ]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Cottonmouths/Water Moccasins are pit vipers and have a very noticeable sensory pit organ between their eyes and nostrils.

Pit viper's heads are "triangular" and wider than the neck because of the large venom glands and muscle for squeezing the gland.

Pit vipers have vertical pupils.

The triangular head is really the most noticeable way to identify a pit viper at a distance... Unless of course it's a Rattlesnake and making noise or it's a Cottonmouth showing the threat display of a wide open mouth (which a few snakes mimic).



Edited by Nicodemus (10/22/08 07:11 PM)
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#152867 - 10/22/08 07:10 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: Nicodemus]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
All I know is I give snakes one chance to seek life elsewhere, and then I get out the snake bashing club. When I discovered a rat snake behind the board I put up over one of my windows this hurricane season, I found me a stick, picked him up, and put him in the bushes where he belongs. He showed no inclination to do me harm, so I helped him on his way. Had he turned on me, I'd have splintered his carcass, and given him what Marv calls the hard goodbye.
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#152868 - 10/22/08 07:16 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: Nicodemus]
Henry_Porter Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 111
Yeah, the triangular head/wider than neck characteristic is pretty noticeable from a safe distance in the field if you get a good look at the snake.

Getting down eye-to-eye to verify location of the sensory pit organ between the vertical-pupiled eyes and the nostrils can give more definitive identification as can the intense pain, swelling, maybe blurred vision and vomiting after it bites. Confirmation!

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#152884 - 10/22/08 10:08 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: Blast]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
There are three kinds of snakes in my book.

The ones that are scared and try to bite me.
The ones that are hungry and try to hug me.
The cool ones.

I like the last, and respect them all.

That he didn't get a positive ID bothers me. I didn't know it was loaded isn't a very good excuse with snakes.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#152891 - 10/22/08 10:40 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: ironraven]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I wonder what the teacher thought the 'pit' in 'pit-viper' stood for?

There are variations within most kinds of animals. One might think that a science teacher would be able to identify the ones in THAT area. Never mind CO, CA or MT. Try TX.

"I don't know if we will allow snakes back into any of our classrooms."

Typical knee-jerk American Public School reaction. Why not disallow DANGEROUS snakes in the classroom instead?

Or continue to have dangerous snakes there so the kids (not to mention the teachers) can learn what they do look like, but actually use some care and intelligence.....? American Public School System... no, never mind.

GO, HOMESCHOOLERS!!!

Sue

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#152894 - 10/22/08 11:14 PM Re: Snake bite: Another reason why we homeschool. [Re: ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
The heck with the color, look at the head/neck area. Big difference...
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