The P-51 is the larger of the two.

That's the way it is here in my 8 story office bldg. It's the "roach motel" stairway. You can check in, but you can't check out. I try, if I can remember, to wedge something in the door during evacuations for that very reason.

Thanks for the Bic EDC ideas. Something a little flatter than a pill bottle would be really cool. I'll let you know if I come up with something.

"Thanks for the Bic EDC ideas. Something a little flatter than a pill bottle would be really cool. smile I'll let you know if I come up with something."

While poking through a drawer, I just found some 2"x3" zip-loc bags that can hold 1 or even 2 of the Bic minis.

If you carry a flash drive, get one of the neoprene cases that hold two drives. The mini BICs fit perfectly in the other side.

Dude! You're a genius! That's definitely worth a shot. Thanks!!

I echo Arney's comments. In normal buildings, the doors should always permit exit through even with mag-locks. It's part of every building code. When power is disconnected they should still allow panic bar access to the outside even if they default to a locked position. A default to locked position would prevent entry into the building using those doors which is probably more of a consideration for the fire department access to the structure. Now there are exceptions to this - jails for example where security to doors is in both directions. However, in these cases, the requirements are usually increased for fire compartments, higher level fire separations and mandatory sprinklers to provide additional time and a refuge for occupants from a serious condition like a fire and to permit an orderly but more secure method of evacuating personnel. Maglocks can also be equipped with battery packs to allow for proper operation in case of a fire.

But in Arney's example - something must have been definitely wrongly designed. The locks in the stairwell should have been maglocks (not one way manual locks) and they should have defaulted to open in case of a fire. Not only are stairwells used as emergency exits but are designed to be a safe space for fire fighting crews to enter and circulate in the building. Locked stairwells are illegal. If that actually happened as Arney suggested the building operators could easily have been guilty of negligent homicide and major flak would have been raised with it.

My own office building is grandfathered into the code and we have locked stairwells after business hours but every third floor is a cross-over floor in which the stairwell door is NOT locked and occupants can proceed from one stairwell through the floor space to another stairwell just in the case of a fire after hours. When I get it redesigned in a couple of years this will be engineered properly to comply with current regulations.

I am involved in building management and building code compliance and as luck and timing would have it, I am attending a 3-day conference this week and tomorrow's topic is emergency exiting and control during a fire!

Interesting, because the stairwells are sure locked here, and this isn't a high security building. Once you go in, the only way out is the ground floor. The locks are all regular old-fashioned turn-the-key manual locks that only the security desk and the building office (in another building) have the keys to. Yipes.

Bic make a couple of different cases that will keep a mini-bic from discharging it's fuel, they've been referenced here before. The Bic website is not cooperating or I would post a link or pic, but check your local 7-11 or Wal-mart.

While we're on the topic, does anyone have experience with butane inserts for Zippo lighters? Like this:

http://www.elighters.com/zplus.html

In the building where I work, the stairwell doors are also locked from the stairwell side to keep people off floors that they can't access by the elevator. However, in a fire situation, they actually unlock to allow people to cross over to the other stairwell if one is compromised by smoke or heat.

The doors to our suite open on power failure. We also have emergency release pulls to open the doors in case the usual sensors don't unlock them when someone approaches from the inside; just in case we need to leave in a hurry.

Does California have it's own Code or does every state use the IBC now? IIRC, there used to be about a half dozen Building Codes in effect in the US depending on the region of the country with the SBC the most common. Some buildings may indeed be grandfathered. When newer codes are adopted, usually they don't enforce building owners to change existing conditions unless they are doing major renovations and changes to the building. An older code, however illogical may have allowed such a primitive condition such as locked stairwells to exist. But any building operator worth his salt would have changed out that lock out function just because it is very unsafe.

In Canada we have a quasi National code - that means that all the provincial jurisdictions have input into writing the code, then the "model code" is created which the provinces are thus able to use by adopting as is or to amend if they wish. My province usually adopts it carte blanche and then amends it with a few minor clauses unlike Ontario which rewrites wholesale several sections. Eventually we will get to a true national code.

I got some feedback from Fire Official involved in writing codes. He said that all North American codes can trace their routes back to certain instances and particular fires that have occurred. I will have to check the dates but for example around 1913 there was a major fire in the US that basically set out revisions for certain exiting requirements from structures and another fire in the '50s that generated another set of major changes (ie fire ratings for doors and enclosures). All other changes have been "minor" revisions but were based on those two extreme events.

In Canada, we've had a number of construction site fires in the last number of years (Google "Edmonton condo fire" - this has led to major changes to the Codes and some provinces did not even want to wait for the next major edition of the Code, they simply added the revisions immediately because this was considered as a very high priority.

My wife had those locked stairwell doors at her work (but they were only locked at night). She called building security and they said it was for security (duh!) She asked who her husband (me!) should name in the lawsuit when they find her charred remains in the stairwell after a fire.

All stairwell doors were unlocked the next day, and remain so. This is a large hospital here in Colorado.