I need to cover the "shelter group" in my 72 hours evacuation and shelter-in place kits.

I quickly browsed through that pdf tarp primer on equipped.org website and noticed that most designs use a 1:1 ratio (square) tarp.

The closest I found around here is World Famous 8' × 10' poly tarps for only 5 bucks at LeBaron store (I would use one to practice and another brand new, never unfolded would go in the inner sleeve of my Bundeswehr alpine rucksack [my BOB]).

So should I go with the cheap blue rip stop polyethylene type with limited UV resistance and flame retardancy or find a canvas cotton duck tarp?

What is the reason behind the 5:6 ratio (8' × 10' and 10' × 12') instead of square most poly tarps at hardware and camping stores come in?

Thanks
Frankie

Weigh them both, then decide. Canvas is heavy.

This summer, we started to use an unused nylon tent fly from an old 6 man tent as an expedient shelter. The fly is extremely lightweight and is treated with both waterproofing and a fire resistant spray which can be had at many hardware stores.

After 15 or so multi-day lightweight camping and hiking trips, it has held up well with no leaks. The fly folds up compactly and was easy to deploy when we had rain storms or for our nightly shelter. The only downside with not carrying a real tent is the mosquitoes, but that is why we carry bug dope.

Take a hard look at the Tundra Tarp from Cooke Custom Sewing at http://www.cookecustomsewing.com/tundratarp.htm .

These tarps are top quality and used & recommended by many Boundary Waters Canoe Area trippers. Favorite sizes/types include the 10'x10' and the 10'x12' of the 1.5 oz variety.

If you get it, please don't just stuff it in a bag to rot there. Use it and enjoy it.

I'd LOVE to get one of their Leans shown at http://www.cookecustomsewing.com/leans.htm , but the budget (and wife) won't allow it.

I use the MEC Scout silnylon tarp which is 2,1 meters by 2,9 meters (8' x 10', more or less). It's not cheap (64$ CAD) but I would never carry a cheap blue tarp in my backpack anyways (way too heavy and bulky).

The Scout (in it's silnylon version) is very light and easy to manipulate (it has a very soft, supple feel to it).

As for the rectangular/square thing, it's no biggie. I've used my tarp in several configurations (A-frame, lean-to). The secret here is to PRACTICE. I've rigged plenty of shelters using chairs and living room cabinet handles

Hi SARbound, I appreciate your feedback. However for an emergency 72 hour kit I would rather have a dozen of cheap tarps than a single expensive fancy one. If I started backpacking as a hobby then I would consider acquiring this kind of tarp.

Frankie

There are nylon tarps available that aren't as light as the SilNylon tarps. Check out the tarps at Campmor.

The lightweight tarps are "1.1 oz. silicone impregnated ripstop nylon. Very strong and extremely water resistant." I carry the small 6x8 in my get home bag (9.2 oz), it packs small. For comparison, the 10x12 weighs 19 oz.

Next up would be the Coated Nylon Tarps which are "1.9 oz. per square yard reinforced high count taffeta nylon. Very light and flexible. Waterproof urethane coating." I keep a 12x16 in my truck, it's a nice piece of gear to have in a pinch. 10x12 weighs 37 oz.

Last would be the Ripstop Woven Polyethylene Tarps. Definitely less spendy, but they're heavier. I've used them in the past, but prefer nylon. 10x12 weighs 4 lbs (64 oz).

If you don't intend to carry one on your back, the Polyethylene Tarps might work fine.

Frankie,
Find a store that sells beds and mattresses. Many of the warehouses use heavy guage sleeves to repackage mattresses. The queen and kingsize are obviously double those bedsizes. Use your charm and a few Loonies to buy one or two. A roll of duct tape to hem the edges and corners and you're set.

ALL synthetic tarps will eventually breakdown under sunlight and simple wear. It's a matter of frequency of use.

The Genuine British Army Basha makes for a good individual tarp,

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EYXEyKYjOqE

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr1653.html

The Australian defence forces Hootchie is pretty good as well being slightly lighter but more expensive

http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/81-Australian-Waterproof-Hootchie-Flysheet

Hilleberg also makes a nice tarp called the Tarp 5 XP

http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-tarp5.php

Did you think of the U.S. Military poncho/shelter? any Army Navy store will have them, and they don't cost an arm or a leg.

[quote=Frankie]I need to cover the "shelter group" in my 72 hours evacuation and shelter-in place kits.

What is the reason behind the 5:6 ratio (8' × 10' and 10' × 12') instead of square most poly tarps at hardware and camping stores come in?

Thanks
Frankie

I believe the odd number is because of the number 5 as in the material is cut in 5' wide strips. At least it is with sil-nylon and presumably other nylon. This tidbit of information came from a small market tent maker. It should have a at least one seam if it is an 8x10 or 10x12 sheet. Also a rectangular size is usually more versatile than a square sheet with more variations on how to set up despite the examples shown it that tarp tutorial.

I've got 3 sheets - a 10x13 (yes that's an oddball size) ripstop poly, a 6'x8' lightweight silnylon tarp (with a 4' seam) and a 10' wide roll of 2 mil painter's plastic. That not counting my 2 tents. I find having some sort of extra tarp is handy when setting up camp in the rain - the extra square footage of rain cover serves to make supper in comfort.

Plus - think outside the box - think of that plastic shower curtain hanging up in that bathroom that is about 6'x7'. Leftover tyvek building wrap also makes a good tarp. Large contractor or orange garbage bags cut along the seam will open up to a nice size. There is no reason to limit yourself to store bought conventional tarps. Cordage wrapped around the edge of tarp with something small and solid like a pebble will serve as a tie out point. Grommets are not necessary - just conventional.

Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas and suggestions. Yes I've seen the pebble trick somewhere.

I thought about using a GI type of poncho with grommets and snaps after watching Michael Blomgren's videos, I'm just not sure where to buy it. I will check out my local military surplus stores.

The idea of matress sleeves is interesting and will consider it.

Frankie

No silly, the reason for the non-square size ratio is so it will look better, just like all them new tv sets.

BTW I have another question. Do you know what tarp (or alternatives) material that withstands extreme colds better, without cracking? What about 18oz UV treated vinyl tarps (that will probably cost too much)?

Thanks
Frankie

Cotton canvas is the most freeze/fracture resistant I've ever used.

Cotton canvas will also take long-term UV exposure MUCH better than synthetics. That's why Scout camps still use canvas wall tents rather than synthetics.

There's still something really nice about canvas tents IF they're allowed to breath (no mildew), but they are heavy.

If you're planning a long distance walk, then nylon gives you the best shelter for the least weight.

Otherwise, woven poly is the way to go IMO. Cotton is too darn heavy and too darn expensive.

Avoid the cheapo blue tarps (or equivalent lightweights). They're junk. Go for the midweight tarps with UV inhibitors. I have used the translucent ones and the silver ones with great success. No need to send away for these: a decent hardware store should carry what you need.

The toughest poly tarps I've every used are the industrial covers made by Integrated Plastics (IP). I've had a dark green one out in the sun for three years now and it's still intact.

Don't worry about cold weather. I've used woven poly for 20 years and have never had one fail due to the cold. It's the sun that eventually breaks them down.

i never understood why anyone would want a tarp in a kit that was large enought--pack size--when a small tent could be used..a tent has four walls and a floor and will keep out the rain and bugs while a tarp is open all around..i camped under a tarp on several two week canoe trips and found that a small cheap tent was much better..putting up a tarp is a lot of work while a tent is a few poles and stakes..you can use a tent as a "core" and pile brush around it if you need to keep off heavy weather..a tarp is a throwback to the days when you put one over an open fire..no small camp stoves..a tarp is a back-up item if your stuck for real shelter--so take a real shelter in the first place..
the cheap plastic tarps found in the big box stores make alot of noise in the wind--enought to keep you awake..they will stand up to sub zero temps..i have covered canoes and wood piles in Minnesota winters but don't expect anymore than a couple years out of them..if i were to get a tarp i would go for the lightweight canvas ones i recall from Scouts..wind and waterproof and heavy enought not to flap in a light wind and not burn thru with small sparks..

I like sleeping under tarps. But if the bugs are bad I add a mesh inner tent. There's no question that a full tent is warmer. And if there's a serious deluge a good bathtub bottom can save your bacon. I guess I just like to look out at the night.

Regarding the OP: If I understand correctly, the "shelter group" that's being referred to includes a dome tent, sleeping bags and pads, and tarps.

I don't do ultralight, but I have tried a lot of different ways to secure all kinds of tarps, from heavy canvas to the (throwaway) polyeth woven tarps, and these are by far the best way to secure any tarp in the worst conditions you would try to use a tarp in:

http://www.grabbittool.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28

I've tried the through grommet style, the gripclips, the gator clips etc. These here are far superior. They are a lot bigger and bulkier, but they will get the job done.

After shredding three big poly tarps on a hilltop one fall day using rope all sorts of other fasteners, I ran to the sporting goods store and grabbed a couple 4 packs of these and had a tarp up that stayed up through the winds I'd guess at 25 mph consistently for almost two days before it subsided. That last tarp stayed tight and didn't rip out anywhere.

Now I have a box full of these 4" grabbit tarp holders, and another box of these:

http://www.grabbittool.com/RockBuster/RBHome.htm

They too are not ultralight friendly, but I know they work, and work well. I like to use what I know works, and I prefer these to making my own rebar tent stakes, which were truly brute force stake material.

As for whether to use a tarp vs a packable tent, I prefer a little luxury, and a tent is going to afford more comfort under most conditions than just a tarp. I will usually deploy both, using the tent as the sleeping area and the tarp to keep stuff off the head in camp while cooking etc.

Then again, I don't mind packing a 60 lb backpack when I do that sort of camping. YMMV.

I actually use a tarptent, or a remaindered 9x9 REI tarp that cost me $24.93, but a friend likes the Kelty Noah tarp of the same size, currently ~$60. Its sturdy, and has grommets and tie out lines built in, and can set up to keep a bunch of us out of the rain at camp time. Very versatile, and not as pricey as silnylon, but not as light either. I say any port in a storm, I have several tents set by for emergency shelter, but as long as the grommets are sturdy I keep a couple general purpose tarps and some paracord in my emergency supplies. If not for me for my neighbor.

The silnylon tarps are fantastic with good strength-to-weight ratio and they pack compactly. There is a lot of info on them on the web. The ultralight backpackers love them. The Hennessey Hammock folks sell a hex silnylon rainfly that can serve as a deluxe stand-alone tarp. It has sewn-in pockets at each corner that hold a length of lightweight cord. It came with my hammock; I doubt I would pay the $129 price by itself. But it now goes in my pack on all day trips as an emergency shelter.

Steve

Also included in this group are clothing and versatile, fire retardant and warm-when-wet wool blankets for people living in a place where it gets cold.