Many of you are probably already familiar with Ferfal's stories of life during the economic criss in Argentina. If not, you should read up on his experiences.

Ferfal now has a blog (Surviving in Argentina) where he is continuing to discuss what to expect if the economy crashes. In light of current events you might want to check it out. He warns of a lot of stuff that may catch you by suprise.

-Blast

Madonna walks on stage for the relief concert and starts singing 'We are living in a material world, and I am a material.." as the lights are suddenly switched off and people boo.

Lights come back on to a humble Willie Nelson tuning his guitar to cheers and breaks into a rendition of Foster's hard times,hard times,come again no more.

Madonna reappers, apologises for a stage malfunction and sings Andrew loyd-Weber's Don't dry for me Argentina in a duo with Bono.

I wonder if Ticketron will still be in busines, and if so, accept gold in lieu of plastic ?

The only people being ingnored in theis circus are the ever fewer survivors of the Great Depression.

I've run across his posts and blogs a few different times. They are interesting, have some useful information, and are fun to read. I know there's some sort of drama going on between him and some other guy, I don't know the whole story. However, I do see some inconsistencies, or at least I think the stories might be slightly exaggerated for effect. I'm not saying he's lying, but it doesn't seem to correlate with what I hear from other sources. Either way, it's still a good read, even if it's not 100% accurate.

From reading his blogs and personal writings, he almost describes it like a Mad Max situation down there, with every man for himself fending off hordes of looters in an I Am Legend type of scenario. I know people who have travelled through there recently, and other people with family there, and the situation doesn't sound like what he describes. He's talking about food shortages, car jackings, and bartering with gold, while I'm reading other peoples experiences about going to the starbucks, hanging out in the city center, and shopping. I find it hard to picture people going to starbucks to order a grande decaf latte, while next door they're bartering gold rings for food.

I've recently thought about taking a trip around South America, and one of the first things I check are travel warnings and advisories, there are none for that area. And unless there is total media censorship for that country, there aren't a whole lot of reports of any sort of trouble down there either.

A co-worker recently spent almost two weeks in many parts of Argentina, she did not see anything close to what Ferfal is writing about...

Perhaps the argentines having trouble are members of the old ruling junta?
I have a equestrian friend in Patagonia, served during the Malvinas/falkland war that killed lots of young men for the fortunes of old generals and a failing PM.
The army failed to deliver food supplies and there they sat, starving. He went out, being a GAUCHO and killed his unit a sheep, which do tend to occupy much of the island.

The collapse was in 2001.

-Blast

But by reading his blog (as recently as this week), he makes it sound like it's still happening.

Again, I still think it's a good read with good info, but I have never seen any other supporting evidence. You'd think out of a country of 30+ million people and the widespread influence of the internet, you'd hear at least one other person who would be writing about the situation if it was as bad as he makes it sound

Actually I don't think its so unlikely.

I was just reading in money magazine about how most US mortgage rates are no pegged against the Libor. Yes, the Libor, which is the LONDON bank's determination. Not US treasuries, like it used to be. What we have is a world economy, with individual states having problems.

little steps. thats what it takes.

What people really want is stability, and thoughout history they routinely give up freedom for stability and security. Look at the tread about marial law in arkansas recently.

Yup. All we need is for a vocal minority of people to feel that "for stability and security, we need to band together with another country" and poof, there it is.

Isn't it in the very nature of humankind to come together as a group? Freedom to starve to death individually isn't much of a freedom.

ie, families, clans, communities, neighborhoods, counties, states, countries...

Rugged individualism is great fodder for novels and gun magazines but it's pretty much impossible to achieve in a modern world, or in any world for that matter. We are all part of the world, like it or not.

"as he fights this loneliness that you call freedom..."
Billy Bragg

John E

P.S. there is a documentary called "The Take" about the financial collapse in Argentina. Haven't seen it but it's been highly recommended as a very good look at what took place there.

But why would you hear about it? There are living conditions like this all over the world, it's too common to be reported. Argentina is not unique in this respect. And I think it would be possible for someone to visit Argentina without really knowing how bad things are.

I'll give you an example I'm familiar with. Here's a link to a google map showing a section of Nairobi, Kenya:
google map

You can see a golf course right next to the worst slum in Kenya, called Kibera. Kibera is home to about 1 million people who live without electricity, running water, or even decent sanitation. It's said that most people who live there don't venture outside at night because the danger. Just to the north west of the golf course, if you zoom in, you'll see a place called Prestige Plaza. Here you'll find a Nakumat (like a super walmart), a large movie theater, and some other shops as nice as anything in the US. My point is, that a tourist could visit the shopping center without realizing they were a few hundred yards from unimaginable poverty. There's a huge disparity of wealth there.

I don't doubt the guy's story at all. It's just one person's experience though. Some people probably had it better, some had it worse.

Heck, we've got places like that all over the US now. It's all relative. It becomes more widespread in a region as the govt becomes more despotic I suppose.

I'm glad we've finally let these types of discussions become part of the forum...I tried putting these issues on the table more than a year ago but got quashed by the higher-ups...maybe Blast has more pull because he has more posts...either way, well done...let's keep the talk rolling...these are scary times. Like it or not, this is political talk. It needs to be discussed, here in this forum. We have to stop turning our backs on the fact that politics and economics are the BIGGEST reason we prepare for the worst.

WHOA! Major misinterpetation of why I started this thread. This is not the place to get into political discussions. I linked to those sites so people could learn about what life might become if the economy complete craters. I wouldn't have thought about how the roads fall apart without money to repair them or how one needs to spend money immediately when inflation sky rockets. Those links were posted strictly to help fellow members survive, not to start a politcal discussion.

Thanks for listening.
-Blast

Dude, looking like Yoda doesn't make you Yoda. Though Yo-Duh comes close.

-Blast, who is really just here for the chicks.

Some good thoughts and good points all around.

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating giving up things, I'm stating that we already have given up things in order to live in a civilised world. It is inevitable in a modern society that individuals have to give up certain things in order for the larger group to survive. To think otherwise is simply fantasy. Even the toughest cowboys in the mythical old west went to town on occasion.

In the most basic sense we give up freedoms every day, we give up the freedom to drive as fast as we wish, to take whatever we wish, to do whatever we wish all the time.

I think that what we should be worried about is the giving up of the more important freedoms that we have, the freedom from want, the freedom from hunger, the freedom to choose our own leaders, etc. Those freedoms are worth fighting for, the idea that we can all do as we please and live as we please in the midst of others is a fantasy, not sustainable in this world.

As for my own neighborhood all thinking alike, not a chance of that happening, and we don't have to all think alike in order to survive together. Nor do the residents of a city, town, county, state or country. What we do have to be willing to do is compromise our desires with those around us and recognise that their idea of freedom is just as viable as our own, even if we disagree with them. That and figure out how to live with one another without killing each other...;^)

And as for the notion that it's too late to think about things like countries banding together, one need look no further than the former Soviet Union to see that wholesale change can and does happen on a global scale quite regularly. And yes, I understand that they did the reverse of banding together, my point is that until it happened, very few people would have publically stated that such a thing could ever happen. Things are gonna change eventually, the notion that a country can consume the quantities of the world's resources on a scale that the U.S. does with no intervention from other nations is simply unsustainable.

John E