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#150822 - 10/03/08 06:16 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: AROTC]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: AROTC
H
-1 million horses produce a vast amount of manure.


As does the federal government, but we have learned to cope with it.
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#150826 - 10/03/08 06:50 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: ]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Originally Posted By: PC2K
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Originally Posted By: BobS
Europe has been dealing with high fuel prices much longer then we have in The USA (I read someplace England imposes a tax of almost $5.00 on each gal of gasoline) look to Europe to see a glimpse of where the USA may go for its transportation needs. I don’t see horses as a major part of European travel & transportation life.

Other then mass transit, mass transit will not work for most of the USA.


Europe's been paying out the boopity for a while. You gotta remember they're paying in the metric system. So they're paying by the liter, not the gallon. It's something like 4 liters to each gallon. They pay let's say 3.50 a liter plus the tax of let's say 2.00...that means they're paying 5.50 per liter. Average gas tank let's say holds 8 gallons. That's 5.50 multiplied by 4, multiplied by 8. That's 176 bucks a tank and that's on a small car.

Like I said they've been dealing with it for a while and that's why I think they're about a decade ahead of us in bringing in alternative fuels. As you said look to Europe for where we'll be headed. I think we'll be heading back towards compact, smaller cars and more fuel efficient mid-size cars. Problem is those small vehicles work out well on European small streets in small hamlets and towns. They don't have as large a collection of large cities as America does so the equation is a bit uneven on how well compact cars will work here in America.

As for horses. Shoot...I don't see why not. Only downside is they poop. I seem to recall hearing about an island city that is within Michigan, but located inside Canada that doesn't allow cars and is horse drawn only and they just have one guy that picks up the junk on the streets.


In mine country (the Netherlands), we have loads of measures to reduce pollution and driving:
- High taxes on fuel.
- Road Taxes (heavier and dirtier = pay more)
- Plans of introducing a system that charges people per km, instead of a fixed road tax. The more you drive, the more you pay.
- High taxes on new cars.
- Higher taxes on new polluting cars and less tax on economic cars.

It also has lots of things to stimulate other form of transport.
- pretty much all bosses will either give a card for public transport for commuting or pay a max of 0.19 cent per KM.
- bicycles lanes everywhere
- bicycles parking space also everywhere
- subsidized public transport
- public transport will even stop in very small villages.
- You can buy a bicycle using your left over vacation days, without paying tax

Bicycles are much more popular here, kids, teens, adults, they all cycle and you many mother have cargo bicycles, trailers, etc. to carry the childes to school.



Taxes. The more I hear about Europeans being taxed the more I realize why my family came to America.


Well nobody enjoys to pay tax, but it really depends on how you look at it. Yes we pay a lot of taxes, but we also get many benefits, like good subsidized public transport, good and affordable education, good affordable health care, good social security, a well build and maintained infrastructure, etc. Yes, i don't like to pay tax, but i do like the benefits. So does most Europeans, so we just stick to it. I guess it's just the opposite in the US, where people prefer low taxes and less benefits form taxed payed measures. Neither is right or wrong.
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#150833 - 10/03/08 07:57 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: Tjin]
Henry_Porter Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 111
One can also make a good case that inflation is itself a tax. (In which case, Izzy, that whirring noise may well be tax-fleeing ancestors spinning in their graves.)

Bernanke clearly admits this when asked about increasing the money supply by printing U.S. dollars (by the trillions? we're not sure because the Federal Reserve no longer publishes "M3" data on the amount of cash in circulation).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY

I'm thinking bicycle transport may be more viable than horse-based urban delivery, given the most recent news from Washington.

On the lighter side, why stop at delivery functions? Behold, the couch bike:

http://www.bikeforest.com/cb/

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#150835 - 10/03/08 08:11 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: MartinFocazio]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078


The taxi rank (automobiles) is still at the same location 120 years later. grin

Of course there were still steam trains and electric trams around in these days, plus there was the freedom as a pedestrian to walk down the middle of the street without the fear of being run over.

I say bring back the horse. (the horse sh*t will be good for your garden rubarb anyway)

It would also stop the equivalent of 150 Boeing 747s crashes worth of death and destruction every year in the US as well.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (10/03/08 08:12 PM)

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#150836 - 10/03/08 08:17 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop

Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang

Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop


A gang member On a horse, doing a drive-by shooting…

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#150837 - 10/03/08 08:24 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: BobS]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
If horses come back, I'm getting into vermiculture in a big way.

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#150850 - 10/04/08 12:22 AM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: BobS]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: BobS
Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop

Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang

Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop Clop


A gang member On a horse, doing a drive-by shooting…


Amish drive-by.
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Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
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#150855 - 10/04/08 01:48 AM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: Stu]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Those vehicles are from Left to right a Broughum ( pronounced broom),Phaeton and Hansom Cab. The Brougham was the limousine of it's day, the phaeton convertible touring and no lady would ever ride alone in a Hansom.
Notice the trees. Every mature tree in the urban world was planted not for aesthetics, but as practical shade for the many horses. The many old fountains were also practical watering stations.
Glass collectors sometimes find very long necked glasses mistaken for laboratory equipment.These were to serve drinks to the 'whips' who often remained seated on very high seats and couldn't reach down. Those long carriage whips were so expertly handled a whip could kill flies on his horse's backs, or deliver a suprise to street urchins big and small.
The occupants; both whip and passengers were equippped with 'rugs' heavy woolen blankets decorously covering the lower limbs unless really inclement weather came on,pocketknives, oftentimes small defensive handguns- a use considered a LIBERAL political choice then, water or liquor flasks and a spare lantern in the boot along with repair tools in case of mechanical failure.
Notice lastly, those men standing by the vehicles area all professionals; coachmen and footmen. There was a gentility and code in those poorly regulated streets. No texting, unless from portable writing desks a hurried letter to be dispatched by the footboy via a commerical vehicle, music blaring from the hand blown and beveled glass( untinted, but fitted with curtains for privacy)

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#150875 - 10/04/08 02:57 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: ]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
To stand on their own two feet and take care of themselves.


Well said. Where Social Security & medical care are concerned, I figure I can do a better job looking out for my interests than the government. None of my retirement plans figure on SS being there when I reach retirement age. Either that or the age I can start drawing it will have been pushed back to the day after I've passed away.

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#150878 - 10/04/08 05:52 PM Re: Horse-Based Urban Delivery [Re: UTAlumnus]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Many years ago, someone handed me an OLD NY Times news clipping about the horse waste problem in Manhattan, and that if something wasn't done, there would be something like 12" of "horse exhaust" on the street. Remember, one of the big pruposes of the NY and North Shore Railroad (Now the LIRR Pt Washington branch) was to bring the manure to Little neck bay, and dump it. You know that marshy area north of Northern (and heck, part of what is south.. All horse manure
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