#150053 - 09/24/08 08:51 PM
First Aid treatment for burns?
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Stranger
Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 20
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Hi, Doug recommends the use of BurnAway Plus for burn treatment, and it uses tea tree oil and aloe. I've also found that people recommend and/or use WaterJel with tea tree oil and lidocaine, and Tender's After Burn with aloe and lidocaine. I have several questions for choosing between these for everyday and emergency first aid use:
When is aloe better and when is tea tree oil better for the treatment of burns? Why does one company use one but another company uses the other? Which parts of the treatment (hydration, cooling, pain relief, biocide, other) do they each excel in?
Which preparations are more stable for long term shelf life over time and temperature swings? Most products don't publish this data, but Water Jel says their stuff works even after temperature swings, for a total shelf life of 5 years.
Which is likely to cause more allergic reactions? Why is lidocaine sometimes not used in treatments? Is it due to cost, the possibility of allergic reactions, or some other reason?
The best treatment isn't worth much if it isn't with you, and the single use packets of Water Jel seem convenient at the cost of being more expensive for small EDC first aid kits. Are there other brands that offer similar packaging?
Other stories and accounts that don't directly answer these questions but give some insight into available choices would also be most appreciated. Thanks!
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#150054 - 09/24/08 10:21 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: kirbysdl]
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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I say nay to all lidocain based products. Absolutely and utterly nay. Aloe and tea tree oil both have extensive apocrophal and some scientific evidence to support them, but any burn that you are going to treat with first aid the lidocain is just there to keep you from sniffling. Yes, burns hurt, the worst pain I've ever felt, but my concern is that the loss of sensation lets you ignore things like additional abrasions and lacerations. I'd rather it hurt like hell and know if I"ve further damaging the tissue than be comfortably numb. I'd rather just cool it, and keep the skin hydrated.
Then again, I'm still trying to convince the docs that I should have an epi-pen because of the world's love of lidocain and benzocain. My reaction to the stuff feels LIKE a burn, so I might not be the least biased voice. :P
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#150057 - 09/24/08 10:31 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: kirbysdl]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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Welcome to ETS! Wow, that's a lot of questions.
I'm normally rather long-winded but I'm a bit pressed for time here so I don't know if I can hit on every single point you raise. The first point about any first aid for burns is to cool the burn and stop the burning process. Probably any of these products does a similar job at cooling.
Once cooling is taken care of, all of the other ingredients are, in my opinion, secondary. Aloe is basically a soothing agent and may somewhat protect the burn but I don't think it's useful on more than superficial burns. Tea tree oil has antibacterial properties, but that concerns the healing process, not really immediate first aid. Lidocaine is useful for superficial and some partial thickness burns, but for serious burns, the nerve endings are destroyed in the burned tissue so I don't think anesthetic really matters. True lidocaine allergies are very rare although I guess that's just another reason to sue a company.
I personally don't carry any of these burn gels in any of my general first aid kits, however if I worked in certain environments, like in a restaurant kitchen, welding, and a myriad of other places where burns are common, I would definitely consider it.
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#150063 - 09/24/08 11:18 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: Arney]
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Addict
Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
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I use "Burnaway Plus" takes care of burns and skin irritations and other skin problems. Good stuff Manard.
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers. Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved
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#150066 - 09/24/08 11:50 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: big_al]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I carry packets of Water Jel Burn Jel, with the primary object of making sure the burnt skin doesn't stick to the 'non-stick' pads I carry (I don't carry any of the 'normal' pads). I'd probably be just as happy carrying one of the other products. I like it because I can use the pads with Burn Jel for a burn, the triple antibiotic creme for random wounds, or BloodStop gauze for severe wounds. Lots of flexibility with little weight or bulk. my edc fak-john
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#150076 - 09/25/08 12:26 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: kirbysdl]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
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Hi,
When is aloe better and when is tea tree oil better for the treatment of burns? Why does one company use one but another company uses the other? Which parts of the treatment (hydration, cooling, pain relief, biocide, other) do they each excel in?
Why is lidocaine sometimes not used in treatments? Is it due to cost, the possibility of allergic reactions, or some other reason?
IMHO, and based upon personal experience, YMMV: If burns are extensive, you keep them clean and moist and get the patient to the ER. If burns are not extensive, but affect flexor surfaces like hands, or tender parts, you keep them clean and moist and get them to the ER. If burns are not extensive, and do not affect parts that will suffer loss of function, you can treat them as abrasions and be pretty successful. The various gel pads, non-adherent dressings, roots, herbs and berries seem to do no harm, and may offer some topical comfort, but are more suitably kept in a first aid closet than a first aid kit. ER 's and burn centers use silver sulfadiazene for second degree burns, and some docs will send you home with some, some folks keep some in their kits. And some folks keep Barbie bandaids in their kits, cuz they offer some comfort, too. I would assert that carrying the burn dressing stuff in the FAK is kind of like carrying a pair of cruthes in the FAK: might be useful, but there are better ways to use the space. Lidocaine is not used on extensive areas of broken skin because of the danger of systemic absorption. Absorbed lidocaine can decrease heart muscle irritability-which is why we use it IV for some dysrrhythmias- and can affect the cenral nervous system, causing stupor and convulsions.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.
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#150084 - 09/25/08 03:20 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: nursemike]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
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ER 's and burn centers use silver sulfadiazene for second degree burns, and some docs will send you home with some, some folks keep some in their kits. What I want to know is why on earth do you need a Rx for silver sulfadiazene? Oh, and where do I get some of those Barbie bandaids? -john
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#150085 - 09/25/08 03:44 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: JohnN]
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Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3234
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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I agree that cooling, cooling, and more cooling is the best first aid.
Immersion in cool water really works for burns to the extremities. If it hurts when you take it out, you need to put it back in. Keep it in cool water for as many hours as it takes. The results next day are near miraculous.
I don't know where the line is for very serious burns. Would the reduction in damage from immersion be worth the increased risk of infection?
Edited by dougwalkabout (09/25/08 03:45 AM)
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#150091 - 09/25/08 11:03 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: kirbysdl]
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Addict
Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 601
Loc: FL, USA
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Do remember this......The skin helps to regulate body temp.....
Excessive cooling can lead to HYPOthermia. Especially of the larger and more serious burns.
Our 'local' burn center (in Tampa) doesn't want us using the burn gel packs on burns greater than 15% BSA (Body Surface Area).
BSA: Your hand= approx. 1% of 'YOUR' BSA. Your friends hand= approx 1% of 'HIS' BSA.
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#150093 - 09/25/08 11:26 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: CJK]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
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Rule of Nines:
Head - 9% Left Arm ( Front and Back ) - 9% Right Arm ( Front and Back ) - 9% Chest - 9% Upper Back - 9% Abdomen - 9% Lower Back and Buttocks - 9% Groin = 1% Left Leg - Front - 9% Left Leg - Back - 9% Right Leg - Front - 9% Right Leg - Back - 9% Total: 100%
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#150141 - 09/25/08 10:35 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: JohnN]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
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ER 's and burn centers use silver sulfadiazene for second degree burns, and some docs will send you home with some, some folks keep some in their kits. What I want to know is why on earth do you need a Rx for silver sulfadiazene? Oh, and where do I get some of those Barbie bandaids? -john Excellent questions. Perhaps Silvadene is prescription only for the same reason that Bactroban is-limited scope of effectiveness restricts its safe use to the highly trained and intelligent physician. Barbie Bandaids are usually next to the Hulk bandaids, below the Disney character bandaids, and above the Roadrunner-coyote bandaids. Accept no substitutes.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.
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#150148 - 09/26/08 02:26 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: nursemike]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Saratoga Springs,Utah,USA
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Nursemike ROFL you beat me to the punch (course I am 4 hours late)
Mike
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#150151 - 09/26/08 03:16 AM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: kd7fqd]
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Addict
Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
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I've heard that honey is a good topical treatment for burns, anyone ever try it?
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#150177 - 09/26/08 04:25 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: ]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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I used oral lidocaine after my surgery, what gives w/ the heart problems associated with it, or does it have to do with the absorption in a wound? Lidocaine, like most medications, can cause problems if you overdose on it. If you apply a lot of burn gel containing lidocaine to a large, serious burn, it could potentially be absorbed very quickly and lead to an overdose situation.
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#150186 - 09/26/08 05:54 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: kirbysdl]
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Veteran
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1403
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
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Look at protocol 428 which has a good burn care steps. This is what we use (FDNY) here in NYC. http://www.nycremsco.org/images/articlesserver/BLS%20Protocols%20January%202008%20v010108b.pdfI found that gels such as waterjel are awesome for burns. I bring one with me for every outdoor trip and it works great on campfire burns, stove burns and even on sunburns. I always have little pockets on hands. http://www.waterjel.com/Now the entire "lidocaine" issue. Broken skin or burns can cause more of the Lidocaine to be absorbed causing side effects. Lidocaine is a pretty potent cardiac drug that if used wrong can cause serious problems and/or death. Few times a month I get called to a dentist office when injection that contained lidocaine instead of being in the gum went in too deep (unlucky needle hit) and hit a small vein. Pt usually reports palpitations, chest pain, sob etc... Usually symptoms disapear but I had few serious patients.
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#150207 - 09/26/08 11:52 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: Polak187]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
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Few times a month I get called to a dentist office when injection that contained lidocaine instead of being in the gum went in too deep (unlucky needle hit) and hit a small vein. Pt usually reports palpitations, chest pain, sob etc... Usually symptoms disapear but I had few serious patients. I was taking the sun one early autumn afternoon in 1975, sitting in the ambulance driveway at a Schenectady hospital. I looked across the 5-way intersection in front of the ER, and saw the door of the dentist's office across the way fly open. The dentist came running out, pushing a wheelchair with a young lady slumped over in it. He came across the intersection, up the ambulance ramp, and rolled to a stop in front of me. He reported that he had been administering a local prior to doing a procedure, and the patient had experienced palpitations. He figured the wheelchair ride was quicker than an ambulance call. Upon closer inspection, I discovered that the patient was Trixie the ICU nurse, a delightful young woman who had entered the nursing profession with the expressed intent of marrying a doctor. She was known in the ICU for her matching eye shadow and lingerie. Apparently the marital prospects in the unit were unfavorable; she was dressed in full '70's mating regalia for her dental appointment. It did facilitate hooking her up to the monitor. The inadvertent dose of IV lidocaine and attendant palpitations resolved promptly, and Trixie recovered, although the budding dental romance did not. Trixie went on to marry an icu doc, and her her wardrobe became much less flamboyant. That dental lido is tricky stuff.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.
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#150255 - 09/27/08 07:31 PM
Re: First Aid treatment for burns?
[Re: nursemike]
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
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In my packs and kits, I like to carry Spenco SecondSkin. During my hike up Mount Washington last week, after DW had called me a survivalist a few times which I tried to disavow, one of our companions wanted a bandage for a blister. Me, the guy with the biggest pack, sat down, opened it, and gave her some SecondSkin and athletic tape. She said she never felt the blister again. Now, I need to replace the package of SecondSkin, since it is open and won't be useable soon. However, I am having a tough time finding it.
I know SecondSkin was made for use on burns, and it would normally be what I'd use (only after use of much water), if I was going into one of my kits. How does watergel compare to SecondSkin, if any one knows?
Any alternatives to recommend?
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