Okay,

You have $10 to your name and you are at a 7-11 and you are going on 5 day survival trek 50 miles back in the Sonoran Desert.

What would be your gear list?



Now, why do you think you would survive?

Water! As much as you can carry.

You won't starve in 5 days! <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Depending on what you've got on your back, some garbage bags/platic sheeting would also be good. Whatever they have that's cheapest (so you can buy more water).

I know, not a very sexy answer, but its all about priorities.

Not bad Ben,

But you only have $10 to your name. What exactly would you buy at that store. Remember you are 50 miles back and have to walk out. <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It depends, I would hope they'd have the non-refrigerated gallon jugs for, say $1 a piece. I sure ain't talking about getting Eviane in the 16 oz bottles.

If I had to dig coke bottles out of the trash and fill 'em with tap water I would. I'd also hope I could find some cheap cordage to lash it all together and distribute the weight.

I can't be exact without knowing the inventory of the particular 7/11 in question... and what clothing I'm wearing... and what I've got in my pockets. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gallon Water Jug
Bic Lighter & Matches
Trash Bags
Cord
Single Edge Razor Blade
Something with a metal container to Boil Water in.

If any money left

pen light, needle and dental floss, peanut butter

Ben,
Water is important, But shelter is extremely vital. Most 7-11 are standard in product selection.

Remember a desert can be +150 during the day and -40 below at night in the extremes.

So what else would you get?
You have not survived yet.

Not bad at all,

How would you survive the daytime sun. Is there anything you forgot. <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

"Sonoran Desert" can vary considerably, both seasonally and geographically. There is a huge difference between June on the Jornada del Muerto (Journey of Death) and Tucson in a February winter storm. You would typically need lots of water and the ability to build a fire for the often typical dry, warm conditions, but in winter storms you are more likely to require warm clothing and decent shelter.

In more than twenty years of SAR centered around Tucson, we saw a lot more people die from falls or drown than died from hyperthermia. Hypothermia just about tied for hyperthermia.

blade; garbage bag; gallon bottle; cord; matches; 1 pound of coffee( I want the can here not the coffee. It is the right size to boil quantities of water with or without the lizard, rat, bird etc.)

I would think that in the trinkets dept of most 7-11 you could get a mini-multitool for around $3.00 - I have.

the garbage bag could be had for the asking if you ask nicely. You can shelter in one but two would be better. I would try to get this for free rather than have to buy a whole box for $1.50 or more. Perhaps the shopkeep will have even larger bags that his stuff was delivered in that you can liberate for the cost of conversation.

Gallon of water or other gallon bottle. The kinde with a handle is really helpful. I would try to get atleast two gallon bottles of fluid. More than this is impractical to carry without a pack.

Cordage is necessary to shelter and to carry. With some cordage the bottles can be hung on ends of a mop handle sized stick.

Matches can probably be had for the cost of conversation from the clerk. If they sell cigarettes then the matches are free for any and all just for the asking.

1 pound coffee can is the best expedient pot. smaller cans will do and if you can get one with sodium free vegatables you have added to your water supply. If they make coffee in the store they might have a few pound sized coffee cans around for free. If possible get two and make a hobo stove out of one and cook in the other.

If you have a decen skill with converastion and some luck your $10 can go a ways. Following the above scenario you could buy the mini-multitool novelty for $3, $2 spend on two gallons of water, $1.50 spent on small spool of twine (cotton twine is best since it can become tinder but look for something clothesline diameter so you get strength enough for other purposes.), $0 on the garbage bags or other plastic sheeting which will be your sheltere $0 on atleast 2 books of matches up to as many as they will let you grab, maybe $0 on two pound sized coffee cans, this leaves you with $3.50 to upgrade any of the above options. Remember, in summer or warm weather you will be sitting still in whatever shade you can construct until night and then moving to keep yourself warm in the dark so you might want to get a flashlight but it is also likely to be fairly bright at night in the dry climate with few obstructions to the star-shine so the light might not be necessary. In the cooler weather or elevations you will be moving during the day and sheltering at night. In this case you might spend the remaining money on some cheap sunglasses to prevent snow-blindness. None of this matters in the truly cold weather if you aren't dressed for the experience.

check this earlier forum thread

$10? Water, disposable lighters and newspapers( insulation,shelter and tinder.) Second scenario: $10 worth of rasberry slurpies. Many 7-11 owners in California are Sikhs, a delightfull community that's been here for 4 generations. My friend Singh will raise his eyebrows and stroke his beard. I will walk calmly into the desert and create a large pictograph on the desert pavement of Osama Bin Laden. Within the hour a squadron of A10s will circle menacingly as a helicopter drops several blackclad Rangers near my position. I will be taken into protective custody, my ETS cap turned over to the FBI. Doug will get a phone call at 2A.M. <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

ten bucks, i'm a scrounger, first of all i'd check the dumpster to see if there was anything i could use. i'd be looking for shelter-plastic bags filled with dry trash that can be dumped back in the dumpster-cordage-tape-maybe a sturdy box to make a pack with-"if there are a number of boxes i'd take the tape off of them to make straps for my box pack- maybe some used coffee filters for straining water before i added bleach that i would buy at the store-i'd dump most of the bleach and store what i needed in a cheap candy container-and use the bottle for water-you might get lucky scrounging the candy container-a little bleach will clean it right up-same for the coffee filter- i'd scrounge or buy paper "paper from the dumpster" and pencil so i could make a map from locals that come into the store-most people will be glad to help when you ask "duh whats over there" i'd want to buy a small round container "candy" with a lid to make my improvised compass-i'd buy a roll of toilet paper. you can roll a bit up around two fingers and stuff the top half back into the roll done right you can heat up a can of beans-i'd buy 1 can of pintos and eat them first day and then i've got my cooking pot-one thing i'd have to buy for myself would be some pepper or scrounge a few packs at the food service station in the store-7-11's have a nice condiment selection-it would be worth spending 99 cents on what ever they have that tastes good just to have some "make life easy" goodies-
matches i'd buy or grab a couple of packs at the checkout counter-
here is my list sounds kinda crazy but with my scrounging thats what i'd buy if i could'nt scrounge a large plastic bag out of the trash i'd buy or better still talk the clerk into selling me one of the heavy duty ones that they use in the store-
i wouldn't want to boil my water so i suppose bleach would be the best water treatment-
i have a modified wallet that i use for my personal kit and always have water treatment on my person-"learned my lesson by drinking water from the wekiva river in fla and was sick for three days. i drank water for years from the rivers and streams but learned my lesson back in 1977-
thats when i started with my first kit-my kit started with water treatment and a taylor usanite compass i still use the taylor-
so to end my rant here is what i would buy-i feel confident that grub wouldn't be a problem so basically its water, shelter, fire, and improvised compass
10 bucks will buy that i'm just guessing on 7-11 prices but here it is
bleach 2.00
paper 1.00
pencil .25
knife-3.00
candy .69
candy .69
toliet paper1.00
snack for condiments .99
delete toliet paper and snack if plastic bags are bought

That was great you improvised, just great, I like it. I personally would save the $10 for when I got back and put it into a Roth IRA, so it would grow for 30 years. I would have a similar approach, there is plenty of free things on the side of the road or behind the store to take care of all your needs. You do not need to spend any money even on matches.

Improvise, Great Job

That is great info and something to be concerned about, but what would you buy and why?

I put this up here to get people to think outside of the psk tins, But just for a short time.

Good job!

Survival can be tough but it doesn't have to be expensive.

With all do respect, I do not buy Zoltan's post. I also would be ready willing and able to bet my life on my methods. It would be great to be prepared and have all the right stuff but the PSK is only a part of the solution.

Chris, all I have to say is

HMMM

So that is what is trapped inside a administrators mind tonight.


HMMM,

I agree, water and something for shelter. Those free trash bags would be perfect...

Amd since most 711 type store only sell "designer" water, you ain't gonna get much for $10...

IIRC, that thread contained about 50 posts. Some went one way some the other. there may still be some interesting info in these older posts <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'd buy myself a long-distance phone card.

Then I'd call up my little brother in PA and say "Look, I'm back in the States and I've got five days off to do a survival trip in the Sonoran Desert. How bout you meet me here and bring our gear." Right about now I could really use a few days in the desert! Mac

This is one of the things I love about the Survival Forum - it makes us THINK, sometimes in odd or impractical directions, but it makes us use our minds and evaluate what we think we know, or are relatively sure of, in different ways and in new lights. I know that I personally have read about and absorbed more ways to use a garbage bag, a bit of string and a razor blade then I would ever have believed possible. Are some of these discussions and "what if?" scenarios off the wall? Sure they are. But one thing I have learned in my brief time on this rock is that when Mr. Murphy comes calling (and he has EVERYONE's number, whether it's listed or not!) it is never in a way you anticipated, let alone expected.

Its occurred to me that perhaps my last couple of answers to scenarios might have sounded a bit sarcastic. I am actually trying to make an important point (at least, I think its important). Survival is about living to the next day.

We carry all these gadgets with us because we don't actually know what emergency we will confront on any given day. But your brain is always your best survival tool.

IF you know beforehand that you're going to possibly be stranded on a desert island, make sure you have a GPS and a Satelite Phone. Then you can leave on short order!

And IF you know beforehand that you've got 5 days in the desert (and only 5 days), nothing is going to be more precious to you than water. You can make it 5 days without eating, certain religious types do that kind of thing as regular ceremony.

So why do you need a fire? To cook food, to boil water? If you're really looking at -40 degrees for a brief time before sunrise, burrow underground! The desert ground stays at a near constant 58-68 depending on where you are.

Why do you need a knife on a five day walk? To build a shelter. Why build a permanent shelter if you're walking? To hunt game?

Bleach to purify water? Not if you bring you own water with you!

I still say the correct answer is as much water as you can carry and maybe some cordage to help distribute it arround your shoulders.

If you just wanna have a 5 day walkabout that's fine, take all the gizmos with you and put 'em in you're $100 pack. But that doesn't really speak to the question at hand.

If you are unprepared and stuck 5 days walk into the desert ( next to a 7-11?) If there's a 7-11 you are not stuck and you don't need $10. What you have is civilization and phone and all you need is 911 if you are hurt or enough sense to call you mom / wife / husband / children / great-aunt tilly collect if you are not hurt.

OTOH, if you want to pose a scenario for use to exercise over then lets take the absurd as stated and rule out such convenient things as phones and emergency facilities and roads with friendly truckers for hitching a ride and to follow so we don't have to travel overland. What we have here is $10 worth of stuff that might have been procured from a 7-11 type convenience before we were summarily dumped 50+ miles in the desert with a vague idea of the direction home but nothing else.

Given the parameters of this exercise, a day spent without good direction due to inclement weather (sand-storm for example) could make the 5 day march into a two month ordeal of being lost. Just as we try to prepare around our homes for the remote possibility that we will burn it down with our children inside we might look at this scenario and consider the remote possibility that it might turn out to be somewhat more that a simple 5 day march in the right direction. Given this consideration I would want more than just "enough water to walk through the deser for 5 days" I might want to consider what I would need if the water ran out. I might want to consider what I would need if the ordeal lasted for a month. I might want to consider materials like tin-foil that I could signal to passing air traffic with. I might want to consider the ability to make fire to warm myself or to signal air traffic with or to sterilize whatever water I could find. Making an expedient shelter to keep warm or cool in the desert is much easier if you bring the roof. Digging the trench might be a hassle but you could probably find a soft enough place to dig with the help of a tin-can. Digging with your paws is going to get tiresome if not impossible. If I can walk through the night for 7 miles and then take 2 hrs before dawn to dig-in and throw a trash bag up for shade I can certainly make my water last a lot longer but the directional difficulties of traveling at night might ensure that I get lost in the attempt to travel this way.

Certainly knowledge is king. Without the knowledge to find direction by celestial objects at night you will be forced to march during the day. Without the knowledge of the habits of the desert birds your chances of finding water approach nil. Without the understanding of the need to stay out of the heat you are likely to dehydrate. Without the understanding of hypothermia you are likely to die in your shorts at night (even dug in you can die in 50 degrees of hypothermia). All of this knowledge is still only useful if you can translate it into action. Knowing that you need to dig a trench to wait out the day's heat is interesting but useless unless you have the where-whithal to dig that trench. Something like an empty 1 pound coffee can would do the trick nicely. Of course a military entrenching tool would be better but not in the budget of the scenario. Knowing how to signal a passing plane is interesting knowledge but if you don't have something shiney or can't make a fire you won't be spotted. Knowing that desert fowl will circle a fresh carcas and fly towards water in the evening is interesting knowledge but if you are blinded by the sun and can't look towards the sky you will not notice the birds patterns something like sunglasses or even cardboard with slits could make this possible.

It is neither the knowledge nor the gear but the combination of the two that represents preparedness.

Interesting thoughts...

But who said I would be digging with my hands? The hook on my belt buckle is sharp enough to cut open an empty water jug .Open up the mouth and leave the handle in place and you've got a nice little spade that scoops a half-gallon of sand on every pass. Mind you, I'll have a fresh one at the end of every day, so it only has to work once.

If I really need to start a fire, I wear glasses (and yes, they darken up in bright sunlight). If you say you're taking my glasses away, then the $10 worth of stuff ain't gonna help me anyhow. Oh yeah, and the glasses make for a pretty good reflector too, especially in bright sunlight!

Now, I don't think 7/11 sells compasses, but even if they do how will it help with your suggestion. How are you going to take a bearing in the middle of a sandstorm? You wouldn't wanna be walking in that anyway... unless you just want to be sandblasted. Take a nap and ride it out. The silk and needle thing aint gonna help in the middle of a sandstorm either.

It's all about assessing the biggest threats. I'd like to have my Swiss Army knife, my windproof lighter, my Photon II and my carry gun (all of which I have on me if I'm wearing my pants!) if I'm out in the desert. But if those are taken away and replaced by a $10 bill and a trip to the 7/11, then the question I'm going to ask is "what are my greatest threats to survival?" In this scenario, the answer is just one thing, "water". All the other possible threats are orders of magnitude down on the scale. I might get bitten by a sidewinder, I might trip over a rock and break my leg, I might get caught in a freak blizzard in April... but I'm not spending any of my $10 to insure against those contingencies.

I mean no disrespect, but I do want to leave you with a thought. Do you guys really think you need all that stuff all the time, or do you just have to have a lot of this gear as a kind of security blanket?

At least no one has suggested they need fish hooks, I am thankful for that! <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seems to me that your proclaimed EDC covers the basics that everyone is attempting to compensate for with the $10. In your case you state that if you had none of these items you would only consider the need for water and attempt to get by without these items you would otherwise be carrying. In my case I presume that I will not be able to count on carrying enough water to get me through so I will get enough water to attempt to find more and also get some gear to make it possible to handle a longer duration situation. Seems like merely two different approaches. For you $10 you might be able to acquire enough water to safely march out - OTOH you might not. For my $10 I won't attempt to get that much water but hope to get enough to make it to the next water source and have the minimal gear to use that source when I get there and also the gear to deal with a few eventualities along the way. We don't disagree on the priority of water (I think). Let's say you can get water for $1 per gallon and spend $10 on water. At 8 pounds per gallon for 10 gallons you are carrying 80 pounds. Walking during the day with 80 pounds of anything will use up water extremely fast. You will probably go through around 2 gallons a day merely staving off dehydration. This will yield a 4 day march at most. (yes, as you drink it it becomes lighter so you might make 5 days). This leaves no margin for mistakes / eventualities of any sort. By neglecting to acquire any other gear you will be exposed (no shelter roof even if you can scoop out a trench), you will not have a knife to slice open that Yucca cactus for it's moisture, You will not have any thing to start a signal fire when it hits day 10 and you have long since run out of water and you still haven't found your way out. If you luck upon an oasis you will have to drink and take your chances since you cannot boil or bleach the water. The resulting diahrea will simply kill you.

In my case I will carry 16 pounds of water as 2 gallons and attempt to find water within the first 48 hours. I may succeed or not. My trip out will be a wander from water source to water source in the general right direction. I will not attempt a forced march of 50 miles. I will stop during the early dawn each day and attempt to build a signal fire and a shelter with shade. I will be equipped with aluminum foil for signaling passing aircraft and may be rescued on the first of second day rather than having to walk out on my own. I will watch the skies and what livestock I can see during the day for indications of water sources. I will walk in the direction of water within 90 degrees of my homeward path at night only. I may be a month getting out or a day if rescued but I will focus on surviving rather than on traveling. A shift in focus not a difference in priority. We both will choose our activities and gear with the priority of water in mind.

You're right, we do agree to a large extent.

If I can get the gallon jugs for $1 a piece, then I'd get 5 jugs. A lighter ($1), the cheap knife ($3), various super cheap goodies. The 99 cent hot dog followed by a sack full of condiments sounds like a good idea to me. I of course am assuming I can pilfer the garbage bags and cordage I need.

But if the 7/11 is asking $2 a jug (its 99 cents at Walmart, so I'm assuming its more at 7/11), then all the other stuff is secondary!

And I certainly would be planning on walking at night and resting during the day.

miniMe,

You make some excellent comments, but I have a question for you, how many miles can you walk in a day under desert environment conditions?

Also when would you walk?
One last question what are you afraid of in the desert?

I read your post but I want you to think about what you said before answering. Okay.

Hi Benman,

I agree with your approach to a point, but you do make good comments.

I have been reading all your post on the subject, digging a trench and laying in it is a lot of work and will use up a lot of water spent through sweat. Also when you lose water you lose salt. You need salt and water to survive and in one day you can lose so much salt and water in your body that it can impair your judgment and if you do not replace them it will end your survival experience. Also just lugging around 5 gallons of water at the wrong time would be the last time you lugged around anything, because it would not matter how much you drink your body will not absorbed the water without the a lot of salt. So the water will not be the only answer. One other thing during the trip one will need portable shade... Not just shade but quality shade.. Have you ever heard the story it is 110 degrees in the shade, Well if it is that hot in the shade how hot do you think it can get in the sun?

You are right food is a low priority in the desert, I have read many statements to that effect on this forum and that is correct. However People say do not take fishhooks, do not carry snare wire, do not take bullion cubes. That is great, just great, think about this if you do not have salt with you and you know for a fact that you have replace the salt your body loses or you will die. How are you going to replace it, Well my friend one way to do it is to eat meat.. I can go on here but I would like to get you comments first.

Desert environment conditions vary considerably with the season and the elevation. For sake of argument let us take the current season in lower elevations - hot 80 - 100 degrees during the day and perhaps as low as 30 at night.

Desert terrain can vary considerably as well which also affects the pace that you might keep.

I would travel at night from twilight evening until just before dawn. I would shelter in shade during the day. If weather or dark and terrain forbid travel at night I would make what distance I could from the moment the evening started to cool until it were too dark to continue. Given this choice of travel times and the need for caution to avoid injury I would probably not better 10 miles per 24 hours. Also, following the ration sweat not water philosophy I would not want to work up a lather trying to cover distance. The scenario posed the Sonoran desert. There is water there, it is not the sahara. I would spend the daylight hours resting and watch for any signs of water in the movement of wild life. I would navigate by celestial sightings.

My main fear in the desert would be dehydration followed closely by hypothermia. The other potential threat would be from snakes and spiders. Snakes shelter from the cold in the evening since they are cold-blooded, spiders really don't pose that much threat so I wouldn't worry about them other than to sweep up my area before settling in for the day. I would deal with dehydration as I said in my earlier post. I believe that the scenario posed doesn't allow for the carrying of enough water to safely walk out on that soley so I would plan on and work toward finding water on the way. For hypothermia I would count on staying warm at night by staying moving. If there were really cold evenings I would use the trash bag to setup vapor / dew traps and if they produced I would stay put until I had gathered a refill. This is spring and that is when the desert blooms, it does that because there is moisture in this season. Pose a scenario in a drier clime or season and I am not sure I would leave the 7-11. I might simply stay there until the police picked me up for vagrancy <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I need to say that this is completely a mental exercise for me. I have never hiked in the desert. I am northeasterner and my experience in the wilderness is mostly in the White Mountains of NH. Traveling more than 20 miles in a day there is pushing it. In a flat desert I might make much better time. I certainly would love to hear the experience of someone who has made a long journey in the desert.

Following this thread, I notice several references to digging a trench for shelter, with the implication that it will be relatively easy - "scooping a half gallon of sand on every pass." Wish it were that easy.

The Sonoran Desert (and many others) has a surface that is primarily desert pavement - armor hard rock that is an absolute horror to dig through. Much of the rest is a charming substance known as caliche - I have spent two days using a full size pick and shovel to dig a hole for a rose bush right in my own back yard. There is very little dune sand anywhere in the Sonoran Desert.

For that matter, digging in soft sand is not that easy, either. I have dug, or attempted to dig trenches in beach sand without good results. The dry sand moves easily enough, but as you dig down, the walls simply slump and you wind up with a very shallow dished hole. When the sand is wet, you can get something like vertical sidewalls, but they are very likely to slump at any time. You could easily die seeking shelter in such a hole.

How did I learn about digging holes in desert soils? More than twenty years as an archeologist at places like Fort Bowie, Tonto, Tumacacori, Saguaro, Grand Canyon and other Arizona locales. The only easy way to punch in a hole in the desert is with a backhoe or dynamite.

Actually, the shelter solution is usually rather simple. Seek out natural stream banks, overhangs, and gullies. They are surprisingly common throughout much of the Sonoran area, although there is considerable variation from locality to locality.

Hmmmm...

I hadn't thought about the salt. I don't know how quickly your body looses salt (perhaps some of the medical types can help us out here), or even how much you need to replenish. Given that they make salt tablets its obviously important. That being said, I don't recall ever reading about putting salt in your survival kit(?).

Other than that, I can only say I think that you're right and that you make a good point. I guess I'd get me some salt packets in that condiment bag. It would be nice to have a rule of thumb as to how much you should have with a gallon of water. I might mix a rudimentary saline solution if I knew.

Of course if I were already in the 7/11 and someone reminded me about this (I freely admit I wouldn't have thought of it), I would probably go pick up a bottle of Gatorade and look at the "nutritional facts" to see how much sodium it contained per bottle. From there I'd do a little math and plan for the right amount of salt.

Certainly if I came across something like that, I would avail myself of it.

I might still try to see if I could dig in even further though... couldn't hurt.

Your comments about the desert sound are quite interesting... thanks!

Good to finally hear the voice of experience on this thread. Is there anything else you can contribute to this exercise from the standpoint of your experience?

Given the need for shelter, what could be had at a 7-11 convenience store that might help. Is a dark garbage bag usefull or a large used cardboard box? Which might be better?

anything else?

Some Bedu ( beduin) came upon the ruins of an ancient city. Entering a large room the shiek asked what smells they could discover. One by one, the men described faint traces of frankincense, exotic coffees and many other treasures. The shiek made his way to a large window and took a deep breath. That is the most precious and wonderfull smell of all, the purity and freedom of the desert! Why is it we assume the wild places are these horribly inhospitable,lifeless expanses? I can think of few places on earth not inhabitated by people who wouldn't dream of leaving;from indians of the Grand Desierto who simply huddled en mas at night for warmth to Neolithic Scots who partied on lake crannogs. I would rather take my chances in Death Valley than certain Los Angeles Nieghborhoods. Books on the desert? Van Dyke's The Desert, The late and missed David Alloway's book on desert skills, Edward Abbey's Desert Solitaire, Travels in Arabia Deserta by Douhety, The Travels Of Marco Polo, Trip to Medina and Mecca by Sir Richard Burton and the observations of Snoopy's cousin Spike are a start. First rule of desert survival is to look at the stars, say THANKYOU for this opportunity and then take a celsestial bearing <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just happen to have one here, 20 oz bottle has 110 mg of sodium.

The reference to planting a rose bush reminded me of a recent camping trip in the Mojave Desert. We had trouble staking our tents (a necessity given the windiness of the area). The very hard rocky soil precluded driving a half dozen stakes more than 2-3" deep. The stakes were essentially heavy 10" spikes. I was using an engineer's hammer with a 4 lb. head. It was very hard ground! We eventually used other staking expedients. Some areas several miles away were considerably softer. However I did not have any serious concerns about our 4x4 truck becoming stuck.

I did see a game warden go off a dirt road and dig his truck into the sand. Naturally I stopped to offer to help him with the extraction. He politely declined, and then immediately checked my hunting license, tag, and gun. <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Oh, well...

In contrast, in the SW Arizona desert, we have been stuck in the often loose, soft sand several times. Nevertheless, we had no major difficulty in traversing the desert dirt roads (mostly in a 4x4).

In short, the desert's soil conditions are as variable and disparate as Don said.

John

Well then, since salt is Sodium-Chloride (NaCl) and these two elements have roughly the same atomic weight, I would put in 220 mg of salt per 20 oz of water... or 11 mg / oz.

That's how I'd approach it, not knowing any more than I do currently.

OK...

But the original question was about $10 and a 50 mile trek. I would spend my $10 for supplies regardless of what terrain I was in... even if it was the Garden of Eden. On top of that, I would still choose to bring a certain amount of water with me. I certainly would plan for more in the desert scenario, but I would have some regardless.

If we take the current season, we are taking on the Sonoran Desert at its friendliest time. I grabbed the paper today and temps for Needles, Phoenix, and Tucson collectively ranged from a high of 84 to a low of 60, very tight for the desert and probably reflective of a storm front which is dumping copious rain - watch out for flooding washes, althoug the flash floods of legend are more properly assoicated with summer thunderstorms. But at any rate, Sonoran survival right now is a piece of cake - this is the time of year to drive the Jornada del Muerto along the Mexican border and smell the flowers. There will be water in minor washes and in ephemeral potholes.

Now, June will be a different story. I would leave the 7/11 with mostly water and Gatorade (it is more effective if diluted) and get the best map I could - supplemented with directions, if possible. I wouldn't bother with a compass if I have a decent map ( I have NEVER had to use a compass in the desert -occasionally in the high mountains - but only occasionally). Travel during the night is the best strategy. Clouds and rain will be nonexistent during June and you can see quite well even with no moon - I would wait until after dark to start (until I could feel the cool coming on) and hike past dawn until about 8 AM or so, or wherever good shelter could be found. In the desert the time from first light to the beginning of the heating period is the absolutely optimum time to be moving. I would be sure I had a full wide brimmed hat, probably cotton, to wear in the sun, and I would find/improvise a hiking staff. It aids stability immensely and serves as forward warning for snakes who will move away as long as they know of your presence.

Finally, I would hope to be acclimated to conditions. Right now, sitting near the beach in California, I know I am not. This will make a tremendous difference in capability.

drink a lot of water before you leave from the toilet tap

You bet! Just not so much as to make yourself sick... That would only dehydrate you faster.

didn't they got seperate water pipes for washing water and drinking water in the states ? the washing water aren't as clean like the drinking water. You don't wanna get bacteria and viruuses in you, before you had out on a long trip in the desert.

Actually, no. We do not have potable and non-potable taps. All the pipes come from the same main.

Its not a pleasant thought, but back in the 50's and 60's when everyone was worried about nuclear war, the government even suggested using the water in the toilet reservoir (not the bowl!) for drinking in a survival situation.

That depends on what you mean. There is only one set of municipal pipes plumbing the cities. It carries water from the one set of water treatment facilities. It breaks up and goes into each building. It's all the same water.
Some of it is plumbed out to toilets. Some of it is plumbed out to sinks. Some of it is plumbed out to garden faucets. Some of it is plumbed out to drinking fountains. Some of it is plumbed out to sprinklers. It's all the same water, it's just plumbed out to various different types of outlets for various uses.
I'm sure that the water fountains are cleaner than the sinks are cleaner than the toilets, but we're talking metal and ceramic there, not water. It's all the same water, and it all comes from the same source regardless of what types of outlets a given portion of it ends up coming out of.
Sure, I'd rather drink out of a water fountain than a sink faucet, but only because the metal and porcelin fixtures have more of a chance of being clean, not because the water itself is any cleaner.
Is it different elsewhere? PC2K, are your cities in the Netherlands plumbed with two different sets of pipes delivering two different qualities of water from two different municipal water supplies?
Or did I just misunderstand?
Stay safe,
J.T.

In our trips in the western USA, we have found many locations with nonpotable water in the restrooms and for other washing/watering purposes (e.g., flushing trailer septic systems). Signs have explicitly warned that the water is nonpotable. Is it actually somehow contaminated or just not certified as safe for consumption--who knows? The only safe course is not to drink it. Pollutants could be biological, mineral, or chemical. If it's chemical, purification is not likely to be practicable for a hiker. It's quite possible that some businesses may have decided it is more cost effective or otherwise practical to limit themselves to drinking from bottled water. Presumably businesses which prepare food on site will have potable water.

Incidentally, even if the water is considered potable, you still may not want to drink it if you have alternate water/liquid sources. For example, on a recent camping trip in Death Valley, my younger son & I drank water from drinking fountains. Neither my wife or older son, who did not drink the local water had any complaints. Obviously the water was potable. On the other hand, it was sufficiently mineral laden, that we had many urgent trips to the restrooms. In short the water was not really poisonous, but it certainly wasn't desireable either. We were happy to have brought our own water supply, especially since we neglected to bring a filter.

John

well some country's has sepperate line's for drinking and one for washing. The drinking line comes usually from the same source, but aren't filtered as well. In some places they use rain water for flushing and other non-drinking things. primarily in new constructed home's. Some newly build sewer systems also got sperate line...