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#147747 - 09/07/08 09:56 AM SMS vs Morse
Doug_Ritter Offline

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#147761 - 09/07/08 01:02 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: Doug_Ritter]
OldBaldGuy Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
My wife, former US Navy Radioman, who was 'bout #2 in her classs in Morse (and never got to use it the entire time she was in) is not surprised. Neither am I...
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#147764 - 09/07/08 01:24 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: OldBaldGuy]
KenK Offline
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Registered: 06/26/04
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That is SOOOO cool!! Amazing!

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#147769 - 09/07/08 02:19 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: KenK]
benjammin Offline
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Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I think my daughter is somewhere around 120 characters per minute now. What's crazy cool is she can be texting someone while talking to someone else.

In Crypto school in the Navy I got up to 42 wpm (5 characters per word for 210 characters per minute). I received the Samuel B. Morse award, and went on to get my ham license. I never did anything with it after the Navy, so my skills have waned, and I reckon I am somewhere around 14 wpm these days.

We used our code skills to id chinese, cuban, and russian contacts at sea, while at the same time fixing their location by df'ing their signals and coordinating with other operatives.

Definitely a lot of pucker factor back then. That was a different life.

There were some instructors who were real speed freaks on code, like somewhere around 65 wpm. It sounded like teletype at that speed, and I could only get the characters with the longer code strings, maybe one in five, at that speed. Those guys were amazing.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
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#147770 - 09/07/08 02:19 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: KenK]
Nishnabotna Offline
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Registered: 12/31/07
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Now ask the average American which one they can understand.

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#147776 - 09/07/08 03:03 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: Nishnabotna]
KG2V Offline

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Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
I'm a ham, and I have to agree with Nishnabotna. Add in the 6 months+ to learn morse code, spread the time over every SMS message you send in your life, and now compare the time...
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#147783 - 09/07/08 03:48 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: KG2V]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
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Then of course there is the problem of predictive texting whistle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hcoT6yxFoU




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#147973 - 09/08/08 07:54 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: Doug_Ritter]
BrianTexas Offline
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Registered: 04/26/06
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Loc: North Central Texas, USA
Excellent! That's why I still have "Learn Morse Code" on my list of things to do before I die.
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#148023 - 09/09/08 01:19 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: BrianTexas]
wildman800 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Brian,, Get a flashlight with a signal button, a copy of the Morse code, make a list of opposite letters; ie: A=.-; N=-.

Get about 5 feet from a wall and start flashing the signal onto the wall going through the alphabet via the opposite letters. You'll know the alphabet within an hour. 1 hr per day for a week and it will be a while before you forget the Morse Alphabet (good for about 6 months) and then you repeat the process.

By flashing your transmittions onto the white wall, you will be simultaneously learning to receive Morse Code.

This is from a retarded ,,,,,,uh, I mean, Retired USCG Signalman.
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#148052 - 09/09/08 06:04 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: wildman800]
M_a_x Offline
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Registered: 08/16/02
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I respectfully disagree a little. I recently went through the process of learning morse code. Most successful systems have some points in common:
- do not start writing or reading dashes and dots, that prevents you from learning the actual signals
- signals are visual or acoustic so learn to see or hear them from the start
- decide how fast you want to be and learn the characters at that speed (adjust spacing for total speed)
- do not start transmitting before you can reliably read the signals; transmitting is about automation once accomplished itīs hard to correct mistakes; you should be able to identify mistakes when you start transmitting (better yet get someone verify correct forming of the signals)
- practice daily; 10 minutes per day will take more time than 1 h per day but will still do the trick

There are lots of free PC-programs to help you learn morse code. I transferred practice lessons to a MP3 player and practiced in my lunch breaks. I can read about at about 16 WPM and transmit at about 22 WPM (on the HAM-bands you donīt send faster than you can read though).
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#148061 - 09/09/08 11:48 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: M_a_x]
wildman800 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
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Loc: La-USA
Hey Max, I respectfully AGREE with you.

My post is to learn visual signals whereas you're posting primarily concerns Audio signals.

The big trick is not learning to transmit,,the big trick is learning how to receive at a decent rate.
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#148063 - 09/09/08 12:08 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: wildman800]
unimogbert Offline
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Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Max is right on.

Learning and working with the letters at high speed sounds wacky but really works.

I suggest learning by audio rather than visual. Truly high speed code is done by audio rather than by flashing light. You can easily slow down audio but can't speed up flashing light.

Long ago in the last century I taught my best friend Morse over a weekend. ( we were in 8th grade I think) So learn it earlier rather than later!

My current use for Morse is identifying radio nav aids as I fly light airplanes. Most ident by morse letters so for me it's trivially easy vs. other pilots who have to look up the dot-dash sequences.

In the past I've read flashing lights while on the bridge of USN surface ships. Also sat down with the spooks and copied Russian code groups while on my submarine. (totally freaked out our own radiomen who'd been to code school but couldn't remember all the letters because they never used code)

For survival situations though you can only be sure the search party knows S O S. Anything more than that can't be relied upon.

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#148065 - 09/09/08 12:39 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: unimogbert]
Nishnabotna Offline
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Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
So, why would I want to know Morse Code? SOS is kinda obvious, but the rest? I can see the advantage in radio coms. Just like SMS can get out when voice can't, I suppose Morse could be more understandable with a weak signal than voice in SW but if I don't transmit what would I want to learn it for?
Not a troll question - educate me.

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#148092 - 09/09/08 02:08 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: wildman800]
M_a_x Offline
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Registered: 08/16/02
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Loc: Germany
One of my main points was about learning the code as actual signals at the desired speed. It really doesnīt matter whether itīs audio or visual. There are even PC programs to learn the visual signals (e. g. JustLearnMorse IIRC). So the daily practice session with properly formed signals would still be feasible for visual signals.
Making a list and trying to transmit will make learning the code much harder.
As a HAM I have no real use for visual morse signals, so the speed and actual learning method (audio files) were fit for my purpose. Visual signals would be too slow for my needs.
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#148094 - 09/09/08 02:23 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: Nishnabotna]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Nishnabotna
So, why would I want to know Morse Code? SOS is kinda obvious, but the rest? I can see the advantage in radio coms. Just like SMS can get out when voice can't, I suppose Morse could be more understandable with a weak signal than voice in SW but if I don't transmit what would I want to learn it for?
Not a troll question - educate me.


In some respects it's like being able to make fire with a bow-and-drill. Old technology mastered for the sake of mastery, not for efficiency.

But, as I said, I find identifying navaids when flying trivially easy compared to others who have to look it up, listen to it, and verify the dots and dashes.

In exceedingly unlikely scenarios we could signal to each other. Such as blinking SOS by eyelids (as POW held in NVN prisons did), or flashing light across a river to/from rescuers. One ham radio story was of a man in the hospital tapping out code on his buddy's hand when he couldn't speak. Or the ham keying his mic from his position upside down in a wreck off a road. And so on.

That I know Morse is part of my trip plan info left with my wife when I go in the woods. If I'm stuck on a ledge at night, rescuers (who often are ham radio folks some of whom learned code) and I could signal by flashlight and get across real info such as condition, supplies, # in the party, etc. Whistle could also work.

Ultimately it's just a communications tool/option. Your choice as to whether to put in the effort.

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#148112 - 09/09/08 04:19 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: unimogbert]
M_a_x Offline
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Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1206
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: unimogbert

In some respects it's like being able to make fire with a bow-and-drill. Old technology mastered for the sake of mastery, not for efficiency.

HAMs may tell you something different:
For example this guy: W5ESE

There is a small transceiver called Pixie and with its SMD-version you could build a kit in a tobacco tin including the entire periphery and power supply.
I own the Rockmite for 20m and 40m. When I tested it, it drew 50mA (transmitting) from a 2700mAh rechargeable pack with 10 AA cells. That would allow a lot of time on air in the case of an emergency for a pretty small package.
If SAR knows that you can communicate with such a device they are more likely to bring someone who can do that too.
Iīm convinced that the local HAM community would also try to help if asked for that.

As affiliations should be noted here, I admit that I am a member of the German chapter of the "Flying Pigs" and the NAQCC. So Iīm not totally unbiased as far as HAM, CW and low power operation is concerned.
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#148113 - 09/09/08 04:20 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: Nishnabotna]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: Nishnabotna
So, why would I want to know Morse Code? SOS is kinda obvious, but the rest?

Just plugging "SOS" into this online Morse Code Translator and playing it back at 30 wpm is almost quicker than my ears can differentiate. I can't imagine being able to translate code at speeds faster than that...

Jim
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#148120 - 09/09/08 05:19 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: M_a_x]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: M_a_x
Originally Posted By: unimogbert

In some respects it's like being able to make fire with a bow-and-drill. Old technology mastered for the sake of mastery, not for efficiency.

HAMs may tell you something different:



Well ok.

I carry a 2m HT when hiking if I'll be where there's coverage.

But that's still my opinion.

I've been a licensed ham since 1971 and Extra Class since 1988.

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#148162 - 09/10/08 12:42 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: M_a_x]
JCWohlschlag Offline
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Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
M_a_x, I have been messing with the Just Learn Morse Code program you referred to for a while, but I do not think it has the visual component you are thinking of. Would you be able to check to see what the actual program you used was that had a visual component included. I have been interested in finding one for a while.

Although, I do like Just Learn Morse Code for learning the audio. I think it has one of the best formats for learning out of the majority of the learning aids out there.
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#148163 - 09/10/08 12:49 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: JCWohlschlag]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Here is a web site with lots of Morse program downloads

http://www.qrz.com/download/morse/index.html
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#148166 - 09/10/08 01:21 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: Paragon]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Originally Posted By: Paragon
Originally Posted By: Nishnabotna
So, why would I want to know Morse Code? SOS is kinda obvious, but the rest?

Just plugging "SOS" into this online Morse Code Translator and playing it back at 30 wpm is almost quicker than my ears can differentiate. I can't imagine being able to translate code at speeds faster than that...

Jim


That's because you are trying to "count beeps"

There are really only 2 ways to learn Morse code:
1)The Farnsworth method. For all intents, they send each character at some chosen speen (most tapes use 20wpm) and they space the letters to make it be 5wpm. It's how I learned the code. My big problem was then getting on the air with the guys going faster, and having not practiced in a few years....

2)The Koch method. Very Very similar - pick a character speed, and a spacing, but it's more often done at 30wpm chars, with 20wpm spacing. But we start with 1 character - normally A, and you listen to A a couple of hundred times. Then we add N - and we listen to that say, 50 times, and then we start mixing A and N, and we do it over and over and over, until you can get a string of like 75 random As and Ns 90% right - you write it down, or type it in as you go. Then you add a third character, repeat until you are getting strings of those 90% right, then add a 4th, and a 5th, until you have all 27 character, the 10 number, plus the punctuation and "prowords" correct

What the goal for either method is that you hear the "sound" off a character - in fact, the real goal is that you stop hearing characters, but for most things you hear "words", so that say my call sign goes from being -.- --. ..--- ...- and for all intents becomes -.- --. ..--- ...- but with even 'less" than that full space - so what you hear, without thought is "kg2v"

The interesting part is - you don't worry about sending - which is good/bad. I know a major part of what I had problems with was sending - I could not get my fingers to do what my brain was telling them to do. Now my code is bad enough, but I can finally get my fingers to do if I "pre-think", but a good set of paddles helped (almost no one uses a 'straight key' any more, except for the challange). My wife bought me a set of fairly inexpensive Kent Paddles, and they blow away the benchers I have - in fact, I should put the benchers on the club table next hamfest. Heck, I got to try a set of begnalli paddles - sweet, but they should be at that kind of $$$$ (and yeah, that's the right number of digits before the decimal point)

edit: forgot to add:
http://www.g4fon.net/ for THE Koch trainer software - free


Edited by kc2ixe (09/10/08 01:23 AM)
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73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#148177 - 09/10/08 02:14 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: BobS]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
I’m not knocking anyone who wants to learn Morse code, but what real value is it today? Even the Coast Guard dropped it.
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#148178 - 09/10/08 02:21 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: BobS]
wildman800 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
For sailors, Most whistle/manuevering signals are morse code. Knowing Morse Code greatly assists one in learning these signals and their place in the overall scheme of things.

All commercial boats have a light connected to the whistle switch. Knowing Morse Code via visual means allows the mariner to "see" the whistle signal at night, thus knowing what he needs to do to avoid collision.

Many pilothouses now have air conditioners and their windows and doors are closed, making whistle signals hard to hear but easy to see at night.
_________________________
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#148180 - 09/10/08 02:29 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: wildman800]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
OK other then those that work with ships, what use is it?



I’m not trying to be negative or talking someone out of learning it. I’m trying to have someone talk me into learning it for a practical reason.
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#148191 - 09/10/08 06:57 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: JCWohlschlag]
M_a_x Offline
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Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1206
Loc: Germany
I stand corrected. I didnīt use the programs for a while so I must have confused that.
The actual program is "DJLs Morsen". Here is the authorīs homepage, the download page and the direct download link. The program is in German but itīs pretty simple. If you have problems with the GUI feel free to ask.
The download is free.
The terms of use basically say itīs free for noncommercial use, commercial use requires explicit permission from the author. It is not allowed to publish the program in the internet. The download page must be linked at least. The software may not be altered.

I hope that helps.
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#148203 - 09/10/08 11:54 AM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: BobS]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: BobS
OK other then those that work with ships, what use is it?


I’m not trying to be negative or talking someone out of learning it. I’m trying to have someone talk me into learning it for a practical reason.


Please read the ENTIRE thread. You'll find some answers already written.

I'm not going to try to talk you into anything. Oh wait, how about I hold your lunch money? :-)

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#148237 - 09/10/08 02:39 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: unimogbert]
benjammin Offline
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Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
In the big world of signalling using emf, morse code is the only way to communicate using pure manual xmit keying. In other words, if all you could do was switch a transmitter on and off, you could communicate to the outside world via morse code. This could be nothing more than two wires across a coil with a battery connected to it. This means if the mic fails on a radio, but you can still key it (either with the PTT switch or by tapping the wires themselves together), you can still get your signal out there. It also means if you can hear a signal on the monitor frequency and someone is keying back to you, you will be able to tell if they heard you or not.

This is why a 5 watt CW morse xmitter on HF frequencies can be heard around the world, and people can converse using it, where voice, teletype, baudot, or any other signalling system would be in the grass and unusable. I can pick out a morse code signal and communicate at 6 Db sinad, where voice communications are practically impossible.

That's one reason to learn morse code, and I think it is a big one.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#148498 - 09/11/08 06:01 PM Re: SMS vs Morse [Re: benjammin]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
http://www.qsl.net/n9bor/n0hff.htm

Free book download on how to most effectively learn and use Morse.

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