Everyone knows that redundancy is very important regarding survival resources. What do you use for your primary and secondary fire starting methods?

I carry a bunch of stuff so let me list it in order of preferred use

Butane Torch lighter - this is one of those with the 1300 deg. flames capable of soldering with. Seems that the flame is also fairly windproof and the one I use has a largish tank so it doesn't run out too quick

Butane electronic ignition lighter - this one is unique in that it has a metal screen inside that gets hot enough to relight the flame even should the wind blow it out. This makes it effectively windproof. It was my fav. until I started using the torch. It has fuel capacity similar to a regular bic and is about the same size. It is also electronicly lit so I expect it to be water resistant. It has no seal to keep water out but it's design is fairly safe from being effected by the wet.

mini-bic - 'nuff said

book matches - light, easy to carry and replace, just downright convenient backup.

strike anywhere matches in match safe - better than book matches and even if they won't light they provide decent kindling.

spark-lite with tinder tabs - back-up to all back-ups hides in the altoids tin.

Let's see... I have several ways to make fire in my kit.

The most often used is a Yellow Bic Lighter. I also stash a yellow mini-bic in the pocket of my canteen where you put the Iodine tablets (I have iodine there as well). These are usually in my pack.

On my survival knife I have another mini-bic (yellow) and six waterproof strike anywhere matches. The knife also has a straw filled with treated cotton and two small birthday candles. The knife stays on my belt.

Clipped to the inside of my pack I have an aviation-magnesium block/sparker and a brass match case stuffed with vaseline treated cotton. These two are tied together with a short length of para-cord. This is my can't loose back-up system.

In the rainy season here I carry either small candle stubs or paper egg carton/wood shaving/parafin firestarters. No kidding, steady rain for WEEKS without pause can create a real challenge. Mac

MiniMe,
Have you had any problems with the torch lighters at altitudes greater than 5,000 feet. I was looking into buying one and the guy that was selling it to me (the store owner, in fact) said that if he were me he wouldn't spend the money, because he didn't think I'd be happy with it where I was going. He sold me a 1.00 bic instead.
So much for my cynicism,
-Biscuits

I haven't tried it at altitude yet. I have been quite satisfied with it at ~sea level. I tried some of these with normal resevoirs and found that I didn't get through a pack of cigars without exhausting the fuel. These really use up a lot of fuel. Mine has a small tank look to it that has held up well. The flip-top broke off somewhere but that hasn't been a problem to me yet. I will be hiking the whites a lot this summer and should be on some 4000+ elevations then. I'll let you know my experience.

I'd expect that the butane with the little screen will work at any elevations that the bic's work at and the added feature of the hot screen maintaining the flame will provide a welcome bit of wind-resistance.

I find these at convenience stores at the novelty sections by the register for less than $4.00 ( I'm a cheap guy)

Zip06,
I'm still trying to find what I like, and what works for me so think of my reply as a report on a work in progress.

I've been driving up newly melted Forest Service Roads and truck camping just to work on specific skills. I've been playing with a bic, a spark-lite and mag bar. I like the combination because they are low tech and have few moving parts. I haven't actually used the mag bar yet, but from my reading it looks like it would complement the Spark-lite well. The ferricr*&%$#@!*&ium striker that runs along one side looks like it may work well with my Becker also.

To all in copy,
Two questions:
1) Do I need to use the sharp part of my knife to strike the rod to throw a spark or can I use the worn spot (no epoxy) on the spine of the blade?
2) How does the Vaseline & cotton work? Do you just dip the ball in a jar, and light it when you need it? Can you use too much Vaseline? What is the shelf life?
-Biscuits

I'd be intrested in your findings this summer.
You may be cheap, but D**n yer fast.
Thanks,
Biscuits

I carry wax dipped strike anywhere matches in a matchsafe as my primary unit. Matches are the most familiar firesource. If I am disabled the ability of a novice to create a fire is paramount. I also carry a large metal match in my pocket, SPARKLITE with dedicated tinder in my PSK and a good supply of Lifeboat Matches. My many spare secondary knives stashed among my various gear are high carbon, high rockwell Moras. This specification allows sparking with carried or natural flints. Tinder consists of sparklite tabs and small sticks of Fatwood.

I also carry paper matches, wood matches, waterproof matches, butane lighter(s), but when lighting a fire is going to be sticky business - high altitudes, snow cover, protracted rain - I carry a stove, either gasoline or propane/butane fueled. Even when you want or need a wood fire, nothing wil get it going better than good old "Boy Scout Fire Starter," also known as white gasoline. For both environmental and fire safety considerations,

On planned trips, I typically now use a stove of some sort rather than an open fire. Wood fires are becoming an emergency technique, rather than the norm. I suspect this becoming the situation for many other outdoors users as well.

I have a Spark Lite for redundancy, but to just start a fire you can't beat trioxane bars. They light easily with a match or lighter, but all it takes is just the smallest spark from a ferrocerium bar to get it going.

With a metal match a short length of hacksaw blade is perfect. They come ready drilled for a lanyard , are sufficiently hard and cheap. Your knife has been honed to a razor sharp edge for shaving fuzz sticks for tinder and defending yourself from the pair of big eyes just beyond the soon to be lit fire ( which usually turn out to be kangaroo rat <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.) Now why would you want to dull it shaving magnesium or striking a metal match? You could use the spine, provided it has a squared edge. Remember that many knifes are either zone or uniformly tempered. It needs to be relatively hard and free from the epoxy type finishes . The cotton acts as a wick, so either natural or poly will work. I like to soak mine in melted vaseline and then roll most of the jelly out, leaving a slighty greasyball that can be pulled apart and fluffed.

Eeek - after mentally checking things off, seems like I'm in with my fellow paranoids.

In my mind, at least, I consider a match safe of strike-anywhere matches my primary and a BSA HotSpark as my secondary. But here's what I actually carry:

All the time: BIC (orange color) and BSA Hot Spark clipped to a tiny lock back (in separate pockets)

Add to pockets when out: Match safe with strike-anywhere matches; situationally a Zippo (cold weather and/or extended trip - refill with my stove fuel)

Ready pack (contents bag-in-bag transfer to larger pack when warranted and items distributed for various reasons):

Second (orange) Bic
Second match safe
Box of Coughlin's wind and water proof matches in a vacuum sealed packet
second box of Coughlin's wind and water proof matches in baggie for demonstrations
second ferrocerium rod (varies with trip purpose; I don't like mag-bars, but usually it's a Doan because so many boys have them)
Sparklite kit full up
Box of *small* strike-anywhere's in a Zip Loc (loaner matches)
small Altoids tin stuffed full of vasoline-soaked cottonballs with three purpose-sized Ranger bands (edge seal and two to keep lid locked down; also have fire-starting application)
Char tin (RWS pellet tin) full of char cloth
ZipLoc bag of seasonally gathered native items such as milkweed down, dried upland grass, nettle stalks, bracket fungus, etc.
ZipLoc with 3-4 5" hanks of natural fiber rope (I untwist and tease a hank out into a bird's nest and call it "dried grass" - carried for teaching/illustrative uses)
spent Bic converted to a poor-man's Sparklite stuffed with vasoline-soaked cotton balls
1-2 damp-resistent book matches integral to MRE Accessory Packs (carried in the unopened acc. packs)
"permanent match" with the batting soaked in lighter fluid
Esbit stove
Trioxane bars
PSK; standard contents

other dual-use items (e.g ranger bands, TP, etc)

BUT - the reasons I carry all that stuff is because I am usually with Scouts these days and I demonstrate/teach many things by design or when there is an appropriate "lull". Rarely I will add an old-timey steel and flint (native chert, actually). Keep meaning to get around to a fire drill, but...

On my own or on family trips I do NOT carry all those items, but a usually:
BIC, HotSpark, match safe, tiny tin of vasoline-soaked cotton balls, and an MRE acc'y pack. Various items not listed have multiple potential uses. Oh, I guess the Sparklite kit has found a permanent home in one of my bags as well. BTW, I've taken to using the HotSpark to light my stove - an aquired quirk that conserves lighter/matches.

And I agree with Hikerdon; I use a liquid fuel stove. The younger Scouts (traditional BSA) will use fires/charcoal in approved locations - mostly for DO cooking and wash-water heating, with 2-burner propane stoves adjunct, although they have done a couple of trips with pop-can stoves. The older Scouts (Venture guys n gals 14 - 20; most are 16-18 at the moment) mostly use liquid fuel stoves (one uses a compressed gas stove) and pop-can stoves; fires are rarely used for cooking.

Scouter Tom

Hey, paranoia pays! - at least when it comes to firebuilding capability. When you look at the total weight of all these widgets, there is probably nothing else in your gear which is as effective for the weight carried..

My first experience in SAR was a prolonged search for three Boy Scouts missing after a brutal, unseasonably early snowstorm near Tucson in 1958. Weeks later, when their bodies were finally located, it was apparent that they had tried to light a fire, using tissue paper, unsuccessfully. I think that started me carrying lots of fire stuff.

A fire is absolutely key in survival. Only exception might be a water source in desert conditions. Shelter ranks high, because you may not get a fire going unless you have a windbreak of some sort, as a minimum.

I found an 'Achilles heel' in my firemaking gear. We carry redundant firemaking tools, but pretty slim tinder sources. Sparklite tabs, dryer lint and vaseline soaked cotton balls are great starters. It's that second stage between ignition and major fuel where I've failed. I now carry a bundle of Fatwood ( aka Mayawood overseas.)

on EDC carry i got
1 ferrsoium bar on mine keychain ( and one in mine PSK )
1 bic lighter
some couglans waterproof and lifeboat matches in mine shelter kit and in mine PSK.
tinder in mine PSK

in the wilderness i got that plus firesteel and a piece of fat wood attached to mine knife sheet, withs doubles as a hacksaw holder. Attached to mine knife sheet is also a small tin with hurrican matches, "waterproof" matches and tinder.. sometimes i throw in a MFS 2...

Tom, it's convenient to have scouting as a cover for your latent arsonist tendencies. heheh Lou

Magnesium works great if there is no wind at all, but most of the time there is wind. It is some times hard to shave off mag. into a pile big enough to light. What method do yall use.

P.S.- Is cotton balls w/ vas. better than lint? <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

you can collect shavings on something like a bandana, leave, etc. ofcorse try to do it out of the wind. I haven't used lint, but pertolium jelly infused cottonwol works amazingly well, it burns hot, long, is easy to light and is cheap !

the problem with lint is composition. With the majority of clothing now synthetic, you are collecting material that melts instead of burning.

I prefer steel wool to magnesium shavings. It doesn´t burn as hot as magnesium but it burns longer and is easier to handle.
Sometimes I use cotton with vaseline. Cotton isn´t too expensive. I stopped using dryer lint because it´s not reliable. Its quality depends too much on the stuff you had in the dryer. Sometimes it has residue from the soap powder in it. That´ll cause it to attract moisture.

Dryer lint that is effective is created by drying cotton clothing. - It is essentially high volume cotton fluff. If it is largely composed of other fibers it won't burn. Wool simply won't do anything, Synthetics will, at best, melt into a lump if you hold a match to it. (of course if you have a match.....)

The way I see it,
The only true redundancy is when you don't have to improvise anything from the environment. In which case, that means carrying your fuel on you. For redundancy I carry at least hexamine, trioxane, and thick peices of rubber. One piece of any of these materials will boil about a cup of water without elevation. For cold weather travel I am looking into carrying a can of Eco Fuel. Supposedly, one can will burn for ten hours.

As far as fire lighting, any number of methods will provide redundancy. Finding dry wood might pose a worse problem in some environments.

Starting a fire is always my last resort for keeping warm. I always travel with the means to provide myself adequate shelter.

Some cotton is treated to prevent it from shrinking or to facilitate dyeing. Lint from that cotton doesn´t burn too well sometimes. And even if it is effective initially , the soap residues may attract moisture rendering it useless over time.

I use a swedish firesteel and also have a small bic in my psk.

Mayadust i somethingh that works great whit the fire steel to get the fire starting.

Wow! I have this lubricant like WD-40 but better, it's called Balistol. Anyway, I sprayed this stuff on a cotton ball and it burned for about 2 minutes with a high flame. I packed an altoid can with cotton and balistol and now i have another thing to add to my "Redundant Fire starting Methods" list. I don't know if it is just as good as cotton w/ vasline but it seemed pretty good to me! The only problem is if I pack this stuff like i did in an altoid can and the can got hot, it might catch on fire! <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

P.S. -Balistol was used by the Germans during WW2 as there primary oil for anything. It's VERY combustable.
Visit Balistol.com for more info.

I usually have at least a regular Bic lighter in my pack and a mini-bic in my canteen pocket. Clipped to the inside of my pack is a magnisium block/sparker with a brass tube of cotton treated with vaseline. I also carry a candle stub and a waxed cardboard firestarter or two (egg carton dipped in wax). I also have a few matches on the sheath of my knife. Mac