Hotel won't take soldier as guest

This is just plain sad...

It seems this particular hotel has had previous "incidents" with soldiers. Not the right way to go about it, but I doubt the decision was outright evil.

In the wake of this is the public out cry that leads to the true feeling of the free world - Soldiers should be treated as HERO'S! They deserve nothing less. Just by the pledge given to lay down their lives before they even enter training, justifies the title of hero. I know very few people that want to die, but to OFFER it to the preservation of freedom... I hope that this spirit of patriotism does not fade. For the hotel that denied the soldier a room - If it was not for that soldier and the many just like him, choices of whom and whom not to give a room to would not be yours to make.

It's discrimination, plain & simple. His money should be just as good as the next guys. The person(s) that implemented that policy, should be ashamed.

"A soldier since the age of 16"

They take em that young in the UK?

Its got a lot of people on British Blades and AirgunBBS REALLY narked. So much that many have emailed or boycotted the hotel chain, some have complained to their parent company, too.
Like you said, without him and his like, there would be no choice to make. If I'm right, you can join the army at 16 as a junior leader or apprentice tradesman, but your signed years (usually 6)dont start til you're 18

I was 15 when I joined the infantry. The only reason the age went up to 16 is because they raised the school leaving age. But as the Ministry of Defence puts it 'only men of 17 and a half and over see combat'.
Or as I'd put it: 'we think you are old enough to die for this governement but not old enough to chose it'.
The Sock

No, they should be sued until they cry blood.

Discrimination and injustice are all around us. Occasionally one incident gets a lot of appropriate attention, like this one.

Then again, this could be a simple case of monumental stupidity - also going on all around us with unfortunate frequency.

"..."incidents" with soldiers..."

Back in the '60's, I used to stay from time to time in a very nice hotel on State Street in Chicago's Loop. It reserved one floor for military (in uniform) only, and gave us a great rate. There were fights in the hallways and rooms every night, doing some pretty good damage to the rooms, but they continued to give the deal. Maybe it being the 13th floor had something to do with it, I don't know...

You can't both fight for freedom and deny the freedom to run your business as you see fit, as long as those people are not selected on the basis of protected states, like race or religion, and certain standards are observed.

If the hotel management claims that they have had previous problems with service members I have to take it at face value. I have lived on and near military bases and yes, servicemen can get together and cause both disruptions and lots of damage. Often leaving without paying for the damage.

In the US it is common for hotels around major military bases to photocopy the military ID offered and have the MPs and base administrative officer on speed-dial. A system is set up to, maintain civility, document damage, get it compensated for and extract money and met out justice to the servicemen responsible. This is one of the only reasons many hotels around bases will take in the military. They know they are pretty well covered.

Historically service members were not always welcome at hotels in the US. In part because of their partying and rough behavior but also because, until the mid-70s, military pay at the lower grades was quite poor. This was one of the the reason behind the USO. It was set up to make sure servicemen made transport connections, got fed, and had a place to sleep as they traveled.

The reason that most bases had low-cost on-base housing, low-cost on-base shopping and favorably priced services for service members and their families was to compensate for their poor pay. This also served to limit friction with the civilian population near the base.

Perhaps their is no similar system in place for the Brits. If you were a hotel owner and had lost money because servicemen had wrecked rooms you would start to take note. If it happens repeatedly it isn't unreasonable to ban the group causing the problems. You can't expect a business owner to continue to rent rooms to any group he will lose money losing on.

Also military personnel are not automatically "heroes". They are pretty much what they were before they went into service. Most are about as decent as anyone else. But the punks are probably still punks. The bullies, bullies. Service can in time mellow and knock some of the rough edges off a personality to their benefit but they don't automatically or immediately become heroes just because they put on a uniform.

Most are, on average, at least as good human beings as the average civilian. They get credit for their service but so do policemen, firemen, teachers, and anyone else who goes out of their way to serve their society and nation.

A thought goes to a story about a garbageman who noticed a long term customer hadn't put out her trash. He thinks this is odd and, on his own time, he drives out to the house. Unable to raise anyone inside with the doorbell he looks into a window and sees the elderly lady on the floor. He calls 911, breaks down the door and does his best to help her until the ambulance arrived. She had fallen and been unable to get help, food or water for three days. In my book he is something of a hero. Without expecting any award or compensation he went out of his way to check on someone he could have ignored.

A large black man he looks every bit a gang-banger. Exactly the sort many people might not trust or rent to.

There are heroic figures all around. It isn't just those in the military. Perhaps if those in England who are giving the hotel owner such a hard time would open their houses to servicemen they wouldn't need to worry about finding a place to sleep. Problem solved.

Thoughtful and well-written.

Monumental stupidity has a price, usually monetary. I let customers learn that every day.

I would agree that the owners of the hotel are entitled to run the business as they see fit, provided that they dont discriminate on race or religion.

However I and most others find the decision offensive, and as a result I would never use this hotel chain, and would ask anyone patriotic also not to patronise it.
If as a result, the owners go bust, and I hope that they do, then thats the result of taking a perfectly legal but potentialy unwise, and certainly unpopular, bussines decision.

Here in the UK I dont think that soldiers in general are treated as well as is the case in the USA, which is very sad, though there has been a slight improvement recently.

A right wing political party recently stated that asylum seekers and illegal immigrants are better treated than soldiers, this might be rabble-rousing, but if true it is shocking.

It is true that some soldiers behave badly when off duty, especialy when excessive drink has been taken, and I would hope that any soldiers reading this would think twice before behaving in a way that gives a poor image of the armed services.

I think that mostly this is an argument against blanket policies. If the hotel had banned soldiers on the basis they were carrying grocery bags full of beer or looked inebriated or simply rowdy they could have continued to do so. If they had taken in the totality of the situation. Cast on the soldier's arm, traveling from out of town. If they'd asked conversationally,"why are you in town?" and gotten the response about a funeral detail, they wouldn't have had a problem. Blanket policies are a way to avoid thinking and taking responsibility, or placing responsibility. The same is true for zero-tolerance policies of weapons or drugs or just about anything. At a school with a zero-tolerance policy on drugs a teacher or administrator never has to dig deeper and ask why. They can move directly to calling the police or meting out the prescribed punishment.

Its also true that the soldiers at the nearby base ruined it for everyone by trashing the hotel. As one of my classmates in ROTC liked to say, "This is why we can't have nice things." I don't have a problem with people partying, I just have two rules: Don't keep me up all night and clean up after yourself. If you follow those two rules, people will usually leave you alone.

I have seen this type of treatment is everywhere. Here in the States and overseas. I have even seen it outside post, in TEXAS! For me, most of the civilian population doesn't understand and really don't care for the military. As long as they can drink their coffee and complain about high gas prices, they don't want us around. I read an article in the Army Times years ago, I wish I could find it again. It goes like this. Civilians are like sheep, not doing much just standing around. The military, police and first responders are the sheep dogs. Now the sheep don't want the sheep dogs around because they keep them together and make them go places. Now, the wolves, the murders, robbers rapist, tangos, you know the bad guys, come around. The sheep scream for protection, cowarding behind the sheep dogs. After the sheep dogs service the threat, the sheep want the dogs to go away again. Now, I Love this country and it's people. I am very tired of seeing people treat service members like door mats.

Sadly nothing new, either here or in the UK.

Kipling wrote about it in "Tommy"

Some quotes:

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
. . .

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot
. . .
(and the last line)
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

It is just like the scene in Berkley Califonia. The town wants the Marines to leave. They said they are invading!!! I wish the Marines would show them what a real invasion is! The people that scoff at the military should have to go to the hot spots and see wht is really going on. Then their tune would really change. They would not be screaming that a tango's rights are being stepped on when questioned. Sometimes I.., lets not go there. Let my brothers in arms in the UK know that we feel and know their pain.

If I were the Marines, I would be more than happy to get outta Bizzerkly...

"You can't both fight for freedom and deny the freedom to run your business as you see fit ..."

True. But don't whine and complain when people object. Your decision, you deal with the backwash.

Sue

Which is why I also object to the flag waving, flag wearing and flag bumper sticker jingoism. I know the current infatuation with the military will wane again, and many people will begin to question veteran's benefits. In a few years, no politicians who haven't served will be visiting soldiers in veteran's hospitals. It won't be "nothing is too good for our boys", it will be "why are we spending so much on the military?"

I would prefer to be used like a craftsman uses a tool: used carefully, for the purpose the tool is designed for and kept sharp when not in use. Not like a gangster uses a gun: shown off, used poorly, and thrown down a storm drain afterward.

Treat the military with a constant level of realistic respect. Not overwhelming enthusiasm one year and underwhelming disrespect the next. In 1944, we had the strongest military on the planet. In 1950, we were were unprepared to fight in Korea.

Where were the yellow ribbons and flag stickers in August of 2001?

Ah, at least one flag sticker was on the rear window of my truck, and the flag went up every holiday. I fly my flag often enough that I've had to retire 3 "all weather embroidered" (aka the good ones) flags since I got married 20 years ago.

I spent some time talking to the recruiters "back when" and I decided my physical condition ruled out service.

Dad was proud of his service, and I made sure he got a Vet's service when he died - the only really disappointing thing is the Military (at least around here) will NOT send an Honor Guard to a service that is NOT at a Vet's Cemetery. The VFW did the honors instead. THAT flag won't be flown - in fact I need to get a case

I will admit that the last couple of holidays, my flag was not up - my pole mount broke, and I have not had the hour to put up a new one

Toecutter, I'm surprised you see that kind of attitude in Killeen. Ft. Hood is the whole reason that town even exists.

Toecutter,
That article you are looking for was entitled "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs", and is an excerpt from a book, "On Killing" by LTC(Ret) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D.

I have a copy of the article... if you PM me with e-mail, I will send. You're right...it's very good.

We fly our flag every day (unless it is raining), and have for many many years. We buy the good ones too, and have gone thru more than I can remember (the Boy Scouts get the old ones for their flag burning ceremony). Being mobile like we are, our flag pole is also a weather vane, made from PVC pipe. It breaks down small for traveling, and can be put up in minutes...

You can also find the article on Blackwater's website, a fact that is instructive.

The argument reminds me of the climactic scene in the movie "A Few Good Men."

In his article, Grossman's analogy naturally favors "the sheepdogs" but is not accurate because it fails to describe any other groups (stereotypes?) in society beyond the three mentioned in the title.

Probably a fair percentage of this forum's readers are in a fourth category (to keep the analogy going, let's call them "Free Men/Women" or "Free Citizens").

People in this category think for and take responsibility for themselves while giving due respect, as AROTC notes above, for sheepdogs as well as sheep and wolves. They are typically not in denial. They recognize boundaries in our society and the various roles different individuals and groups play.

It's probably wise to equip oneself with a wariness of angry elected public servants, servicemen, law enforcement officers, or mercenaries like Blackwater who despise fellow citizens whether they be "sheep," "sheepdog" or "free man."

I have met a lady that is in the group Code Pink. I was standing in line in a Cefco in Gatesville going to pay for gas. This lady behind me, I guess noticed I had on an Army shirt(the ones you get for free to promote the military). She started to poke me in the back and tell me how much of a horrible person that I am. I then turned around and asked her to stop. Now, remember I am in a store with other people. She then goes to say how evil I must be and my family should have to pay for all the crimes that I must have committed over seas. After that I really wanted to show her some good Srmy training. Unforuntally, I still had on my back brace and a two hundred pound man verses a maybe one hundred pound little woman? Here even in Texas I would have been at fault even thought she started it. The people in the store then, noticing that I was getting feed up with her mouth told her to leave and stop bothering me. I watched her leave with a smile on her face as if she just won a victory. Is that what I and many others are defending? That one moment almost made me give up. I didn't though. But now, if I have the chance of running into somebody like that again. Lets just say I am walking by myself now and can't wait to get my hands dirty.

I'm surprised. That is not what I would have expected to see in Gatesvilles or in any of the surrounding areas. Truely sorry you had to put up with her mouth.

I can understand people that really do not have a grasp on what is going on in the world. They should not think that because they believe the world will be a better place without protectors they should try to belittle them. I have been around this great state, and have met some of the best, most giving people I can imagine. I plan on living here for the rest of my life. A friend of mine that was in 1-8 with me lives in Indiana now. He has also had run-ins with the same problem. Now, as being a soldier, when I was younger I have raised my share of cane. I have also paid for it, in money and rank(I have held every one that I had twice!). Now as a NCO I can't do those kind of things. I ahve been in places around the world that have small sites for their military to go. In these places they can unwind, drink, fight to their hearts content. As long as nobody gets killed have fun. They should have places like that in the U.S. for it's military to blow off steam. Nothing is more theraputic then punching somebody in the face, all the anger just vents! Now,I know some people would say that is just horrible, hey it takes a different type of person to do the things that the military does. What do you guys think?

Consider the source. She isn't worth getting upset over or even the effort to spit on.

Getting punched in the face has it's merits as well...lol. Get's the juices flowing...