It's probably too late for legalization at this point, for two reasons: First, there there is a huge bureaucracy grown around the "war on drugs," and bureacracies are always careful to avoid killing the goose that lays their golden eggs.

For example, there are now many police agencies who depend on "drug money" forfeitures and federal anti-drug money for the major share of their budgets and ALL of their extras and cool toys.

Second, the illegal drug industry is flush with cash, enough to buy politicians, prosecutors and judges, and they are the last people to want their profits destroyed by legalization. The drug producers and the anti-drug bureaucracy flourish in this symbiotic relationship, and both are committed to sustaining it perpetually.

Jeff

The problem with legalizing it is that they might legalize the use and possession of personal amounts, but the importing and growing would still be illegal. If you were to legalize the growing of it, then the importation would also follow. If they legalized the growing of a certain number of plants (say, setting a limit on the number of plants able to be grown legally), then there would still be those trying to grow large amounts because so few have the space, time, patience, etc to grow their own. Most all of us can grow a vegetable garden, but we still shop at the grocery store (in the vegetable section)

Legalizing things that seem "hard" for us to control is just taking an easy way out of any problems (i.e. amnesty for illegals). I can think of hundreds of things we could make legal just to make my personal life "easier", but wouldn;t be good for society in general.

ON EDIT: Also, Jeff McCann's reasons for not legalizing (or likelyhood of not legalizing) are, for the most part, valid, but really, we could legalize say bank robbery, or speeding, or rape or murder, or maybe bludgeoning (if done without "hate") and it would surely save alot of headaches on those responsible for investigating and prosecuting the crimes. It would also cut down on "bureaucracy" too, and that would be good. In the end, though, it all comes down to sweeping crumbs under the rug just because......it's easier than cleaning them up properly.

By the way, just to be clear, I didn't mean to start a "pot should be legalized" thread, and I'll keep my opinions on that matter to myself. (I prefer a nice glass of pinot noir.)

The point was that organized criminals with automatic weapons are in national parks in numbers never seen before. Sure, there have been moonshiners, meth labs, and God knows what else, but pot farms like this take up massive amounts of land. They are far easier to come across inadvertently than most of the undesirable human activities you'd want to avoid in the woods.

Another problem is that they sometimes do significant damage to environmentally sensitive areas. I've run accross a few pot fields on public lands, as well as a few 'shiners and not a few meth labs. Thankfully, no confrontations.

I know just how dangerous and unpredictable methheads can be, and their "labs" are incredible fire and toxic hazards. I don't imagine today's pot growers are harmless hippies anymore. Good ol' boy 'shiners don't look for trouble, but they aren't to be messed with, either.

So, from a survival point of view, what are the warning signs to look for when out in the woods, to avoid a confrontation?

Use trails where there weren't any before;
Hoses or irrigation piping where it doesn't belong;
Strange, out of place chemical odors;
Accumulations of debris like plastic jugs, coleman fuel containers, waste packaging from batteries, chemicals and cold remedies;
Generator noise and lights where they don't belong;
FWD truck traffic in and out at odd hours;
Tripwires, boobytraps homemade alarms or noisemakers.

Any other ideas for what to watch for?

Jeff

I once read an article in a magazine about pot growers been seen carting an M-60 into the woods. Then when authorities went in to cut down a large farm, they found plants booby trapped with det-cord running up the stalk, with a detonator rigged to blow the stuff if the stalk was bent in order to chop it off near the ground. I have handled an AR-10 with night scope that was found in a pot field in central CA. It is indeed a war out there...

It's never too late to do the right thing.

Typically pro gun rights people think they shouldn't ban guns and knives 'because bans don't work'.
But drugs should be made illegal and then there will be less around!
Anti gun rights people believe the opposite. :-)
The Sock

Sock, if you are trying to say something, come out and say it. You've started to a few times, you might as well get it off your chest.

I'm pretty sure the English model of "ban everything, and have prior restraint" isn't working any better.

sorry you've lost me ironraven; what is it you want me to say?
The Sock

You've made a lot of comments that could be easily taken as jabs at American gun owners, that's all. If I'm seeing something that isn't there, I apologize. It's just that when ever one of Her Majesty's subjects talks about gun ownership in what seems to be a negative light, my experience is that they usually have something more to say on the subject.