Chicken questions:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/index.php

I'm close enough to the source that I know it's name - Daisy, the fact that Daisy is brown, warm and fuzzy, and that Daisy made my daughter squeal in delighted surprise when Daisy licked her head. We buy "milk rights" from a friend's cow. Close enough for ya?

The milk I drink is often less than 8 hours old (and the eggs I eat are always less than a week old).

I worked on a Dairy farm in Upstate NY when I was a kid. Knowing what I do about how I handled the milking machines, how the cows lived and how the milk was handled, I'd agree that sterilized milk is far better than real milk.

As far as "prevented untold thousands of deaths" - well, that's asking me to prove a negative, which can't be done. I can tell you that in my network of friends, I can count about 250 individuals who drink nothing but raw milk from a variety of sources, both super-local like me and from small farms and not a one has EVER gotten ill from it, much less died. Again, this is locally sourced, small-scale (under 25 cows) production and nothing at all like a milk processing plant.

Having worked with large-scale production operations in the past, I can see why you might like irradiation. On a purely logical basis, it's the most effective way I can think of to get nasties in the food killed without dumping chemicals that leave residuals in the food, no matter what. That said, I prefer a process that does not have cows up to their bellies in feces, I prefer eggs from hens that aren't under a stack of other defecating battery-caged hens, with occasionally dead hens rotting away overhead. I prefer my pork from pigs that were enjoying hickory nuts and table scraps the day before I enjoy them as bacon, not pigs fed re-processed chicken feathers and slaughterhouse drain-slurry. I think irradiation is a powerful, effective and safe tool for killing pathogens that should never have been introduced into the process in the first place. I think that the mass farming methods produce "cheaper" food in short-term costs and much. much more expensive food when you factor in "3PP" economics and some basic morality.

And how do the pathogens get into the eggs?
Wait, let me tell you.

THEY INTRODUCE THEM MANUALLY.

It's not like they take some eggs, wait 6 days, crack it open and get Ebola.

The use of egg albumen as a base for virus research and immunization production is well understood, as the eggs are very cheap to acquire and they HAVE NOT GOT ANY NASTIES TO START WITH, which is important to, you know, making sure you're getting good science in your bio-warfare lab. Want to make sure they kill off only the good guys, right?

We let them sit for about 7-9 days at most.

Careful, Martin, that's not quite true. You can end up with internally Salmonella-infected eggs because the hen's ovaries were infected. Not very common, but common enough for the CDC to have a webpage about it.

And how do they get the Salmonella?
Could it be because they are stacked up on top of one another in tight cages with shtuff raining down on their bodies 24/7 until they drop dead??

Look, I don't take unnecessary chances, by any means. For years, I have had very little trust in the mass food production system and I've been a locavore since before the term was even coined. I've been raising and eating my own poultry and eggs for years, I've been buying cows & milk and other foods from local farms where I know the folks (and right now, the cow). I get a couple of deer every year, we eat less than a 1/4 cow a year, some bacon and a little fish.
My point here is that you CAN trust your food - if you know your food sources. Even urban folks could do better to get to know the sources of their food. Farm markets, buying cooperatives and local food markets are all reasonable alternatives. Yes, it's more expensive. So I don't buy Doritos and Soda, and with the money I save there, I can afford $5.00 a gallon milk I buy from a person who I know and who lets us come visit the cow that's giving us our milk.
The butter that started all of this comes from a local farmer who sells in a few local shops. He's a hoot. He won't sell skim milk - it's "suitable for pig slop, not human consumption" he says.

To tie this back to LTP, which is the crux of this, part of my LTP is having a relationship with the people and animals which bring me food. Not only do I have an economic relationship that is mutually beneficial with these folks, I have a long history with my local "supply chain" that is not at all dependent on any national-scale food processing infrastructure, and in many ways is my version of an "emergency food supply".

Ah, reminds me of when I used to go "upstate" into my 20s - there was the old lady with about 20 chicked in the back behind the house - and a simple sign - "eggs". You had to know.

Milk from a Jersey or Gurnsey cow - has so much butterfat it's yellow

CORN (oh yes - reminds me - have to head up there this weekend if I can- but probably cant) - watch the guy pick it and hand it to you - iced in the field. You would not believe how sweet it is. I know a place around here - hand cut kilbasa, and home smoked slab bacon (which I almost never buy, as I use about 1.5 lbs of bacon/year - 1 lb of that covering the Thanksgiving turkey

The problem with living in NYC - almost nothing local. Up until of, 10 years or so ago, there were still 1-2 active farms out in eastern Queens, which is where I life. It was "good". Although I say I won't get upstate, I will be out on Long Island (have to drop my daughter at Shelter Island), so I'll stop at the farm stands, and get some local veggies, fruit and the like. Leeks, Broccoli, corn and califlower among others should be in.

BTW, there is an underrated veggie IMHO - leeks - they can be kept underground, or a root cellar, or a frig for a LONG time, and they tatse GOOD

Hi kc2ixe,

On the Greenmarket website it says there's a farmers' market on Saturdays in Atlas Park. Is that very far from where you live?

Nurit

between parking and the like, take well over an hour. Heck, there is a farmers market right across the st from work every thursday - some baked goods, some apples/peaches etc, and one guy selling veggies from PA. Not worth it

Too bad.

Reading your earlier post brought back pleasant memories for me. I grew up on Long Island in the '50s and '60s. Not eastern L.I., but even in Nassau County we'd stop at farmers' stands on the local roads and buy tomatoes, corn and peaches. OMG delicious!

Nurit