So, red feather butter is praised all over the web for butter than can be stored w/out being refrigerated and it actually tastes good.

I got some, tried it, awesome.. tastes good! Last for years, doesn't need to be cool.. perfect long-term food that I can use daily and cost almost the same as normal butter.

I started reading the label, and that's when I made the discovery....

After opening place in separate container and refrigerate.

What's going on here? If I can't refrigerate it from when I buy it what makes them think I`ll be able to after I open it?

Does anyone know if this is a safety message or is it REALLY required?

(I know with store butter on sticks I've left that in my cabinet so it stay soft.)

I just thought this was very very odd.

You could use a "Butter Bell (pot, crock)." This explains what they are:

http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/butter_crock.htm

http://www.webexhibits.org/butter/crocks.html

Here are some tips for using a butter bell:
http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/good-questions/good-question-do-butter-bells-really-work-014288

Here is Emile Henry's. Click on the different colors to see the pot in that color. It also comes in white, but doesn't show that on this page:
http://www.surlatable.com/product/id/126791.do

Emile Henry Couleurs Butter Pot, White
http://www.pronto.com/Emile-Henry-Couleurs-Butter-Pot-10800097622-CG

Hope that helps.

Joy

You have to refrigerate most canned foods after opening them. Why would this one be any different?
Here's another source for butter bells
http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/butter-...arble-dish.aspx
I've been trying to figure out how to keep the warm soft butter from running down into the water. Maybe I keep my house to warm in the summer.

If they made butter so it didn't go rancid afetr a while, it wouldn't taste good. Food scientists have been working on this issue, and spreadability, for a century or so-that's where margarine came from, and the first versions of margarine had ground up udders in them. If you seek a spread that keeps well at room temp, has consistent texture and is useful in multiple kitchen applications, learn to like toast with Crisco.

Nishnabotna & nursemike - Maybe you guys have not heard of this but it's mentioned ALL over the web as awesome tasting butter that needs NO refrigeration. I just did another search and found that while it says that people are still leaving it out on the counter.
Interesting.


Thanks for the Butter Bells info That looks interesting.

At my house we leave the butter out all the time. Land of Lakes, salted in the one pound tubs. Longest it lasts is three weeks and ive never had a problem with it going rancid. My DW, when we first moved in together was horrified. "You have to refrigerate butter, it says so right on the package!" To wit I told her you dont, watch. She is STILL to this day put off by it. Last week she bought a new butter with a canola oil blend. Supposed to make it spreadable and we can keep it in the fridge. Fail. Not that spreadable, and when she left it out with the other butter the oil seperated from the butter.

-Bill Liptak

Us too, and we buy nothing but Organic butter. We don't refrigerate eggs either.

The reason the hysteria about refrigerating butter and such is because "aseptic" production leaves the way open for all kinds of amazingly virulent nasties to move in quickly. We also drink nothing but raw milk, and sometimes, it gradually turns sour, after which it becomes another ingredient for baking. It does not suddenly turn into a horror-blob the way pasteurized milk does AND it's the only liquid milk I can tolerate without some serious turbulence in my tummy.

I'm not trying to be the least bit critical or judgmental, but I would NEVER do that personally. Call me paranoid. I guess I've been influenced by my studies in public health and disease vectors (not specifically referring to dairy products) I presume you are close to and familiar with the source?

The real benefits of pasteurization apply to mass production, transportation, distribution and storage issues, not local stuff fresh off the farm, anyway. Nonetheless, it has prevented untold thousands of deaths and illnesses.

So, how do you feel about irradiation of food? I'm all for it, as It appears to be far safer than chemical based preservatives.

Jeff

Margarine with ground up udders or toast spread with Crisco -- nursemike, you might be onto a new weight-loss diet called "I Think I'll Just Skip Breakfast Thankyouverymuch."

Now, Henry, you sit down and eat your breakfast like a good boy. Would you like some fried chicken embryos to with your criscoed and uddered toast? How about some fresh brewed Kopi Luwak coffee?

Jeff

The World's Most Expensive Coffee is From Beans Cycled Through an Indonesian Monkey's Digestive System-Truth!
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kopiluwak.htm

i have the Red Feather also..i think it was made for use at
outback/remote farms and sheep stations..you could have a
large supply set aside and just put what you were using in
the frige..
butter left out??--it's a regional thing..i'm from NY and
the butter always went in the frige--moved to Minnesota and
found that butter was left out..

Quote from Nishnabotna "I've been trying to figure out how to keep the warm soft butter from running down into the water."

There is also the "Butter Boat." It works a little differently then the Butter Bell. The butter never comes in contact with the water. You can add crushed ice on hot days. You might give it a try. Here are a couple websites that show what it is.

http://www.cookstreetinc.com/welcome.php

http://www.ladlesandlinens.com/products/50

http://www.amazon.com/Butter-Boat-Red-Wh...5958&sr=8-2

I couldn't find one on the Pleasant Hill Grain Site. They are one of my favorite sites. I have had good luck ordering from them.

Joy

What about ghee? Supposedly it doesn't need to be refrigerated...

I wonder if it has anything to do with the average weather in a region. I'm thinking NY gets hotter than MN, so more need for refrigeration. I leave my butter out in just a covered dish in the winter, but I can't in the summer.

Hi jdavid,

Ghee is what I store. This is the brand I buy at my local health food store:
http://www.purityfarms.com/

I would like to get some of the Red Feather Butter though. My future SIL is from New Zealand. I was hoping he could bring me a jar, but they told me that it is more trouble then it is worth. I guess it makes going through Customs a nightmare!

Joy

I'm pretty sure it does.

In warmer climates, fats go rancid faster. If you've ever tasted butter than has had that happen without sniffing it... yeah, not good eats. I'm betting that is why once you open the can, it is suggested to refridgerate the butter.

Heck, peanut butter and ketchup both suggest you fridge them after opening. Never put either one in the fridge in my entire life.

Wow, thanks for all the great information guys.

We too have left butter out in the cabinet on a platter for about 2 weeks and it stays good.. If it warms up it turns to a blob.

After researching it more and from what people post this will serve us nicely

-Todd

I work with some researchers who cultivate (thankfully not at our site) some of the most lethal viruses in the world. One of the mediums they use is room-temperature eggs. Apparently, they are like custom-designed bio-warfare vessels.

Dang, someone gave us this butt ugly butter boat and it never occurred to me to put crushed ice in it. Now I'm going to feel some compulsion to keep it.

I live in Texas and we leave the butter out all the time. In a covered glass dish, usually stored in a glass fronted cabinet. Of course, a quarter pound of butter doesn't last too long. You guys are talking about 3 weeks, must be for a full pound block. Thats part of the reason we use the quarter pound ones. Doesn't go rancid in 2 days.

I just found a source for raw milk, I'm very happy about it. And I bought some chickens from the guy and yesterday I got my first egg.

Does anyone know how long an fresh-laid egg will last without refrigeration? I'm talking about a practical minimum, the eggs are too cheap to take any risks on... I am really looking forward to taking some of my eggs when I go backpacking.

Hi Clark,

Sorry! lol! I can never understand why people make things like butter boats ugly when they could make them beautiful or at least pleasing to the eye!

They say not to wash the eggs. They have a protective coating on them that keeps bacteria and stuff from penetrating into the egg. Here are some tips for storing eggs:

http://standeyo.com/News_Files/Food/storing_eggs.html

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainab...rigeration.aspx

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VermontHomesteaders/message/2983

I used to have chickens. Some day I hope to have them again.

I hope this helps.

Joy

Chicken questions:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/index.php

I'm close enough to the source that I know it's name - Daisy, the fact that Daisy is brown, warm and fuzzy, and that Daisy made my daughter squeal in delighted surprise when Daisy licked her head. We buy "milk rights" from a friend's cow. Close enough for ya?

The milk I drink is often less than 8 hours old (and the eggs I eat are always less than a week old).

I worked on a Dairy farm in Upstate NY when I was a kid. Knowing what I do about how I handled the milking machines, how the cows lived and how the milk was handled, I'd agree that sterilized milk is far better than real milk.

As far as "prevented untold thousands of deaths" - well, that's asking me to prove a negative, which can't be done. I can tell you that in my network of friends, I can count about 250 individuals who drink nothing but raw milk from a variety of sources, both super-local like me and from small farms and not a one has EVER gotten ill from it, much less died. Again, this is locally sourced, small-scale (under 25 cows) production and nothing at all like a milk processing plant.

Having worked with large-scale production operations in the past, I can see why you might like irradiation. On a purely logical basis, it's the most effective way I can think of to get nasties in the food killed without dumping chemicals that leave residuals in the food, no matter what. That said, I prefer a process that does not have cows up to their bellies in feces, I prefer eggs from hens that aren't under a stack of other defecating battery-caged hens, with occasionally dead hens rotting away overhead. I prefer my pork from pigs that were enjoying hickory nuts and table scraps the day before I enjoy them as bacon, not pigs fed re-processed chicken feathers and slaughterhouse drain-slurry. I think irradiation is a powerful, effective and safe tool for killing pathogens that should never have been introduced into the process in the first place. I think that the mass farming methods produce "cheaper" food in short-term costs and much. much more expensive food when you factor in "3PP" economics and some basic morality.

And how do the pathogens get into the eggs?
Wait, let me tell you.

THEY INTRODUCE THEM MANUALLY.

It's not like they take some eggs, wait 6 days, crack it open and get Ebola.

The use of egg albumen as a base for virus research and immunization production is well understood, as the eggs are very cheap to acquire and they HAVE NOT GOT ANY NASTIES TO START WITH, which is important to, you know, making sure you're getting good science in your bio-warfare lab. Want to make sure they kill off only the good guys, right?

We let them sit for about 7-9 days at most.

Careful, Martin, that's not quite true. You can end up with internally Salmonella-infected eggs because the hen's ovaries were infected. Not very common, but common enough for the CDC to have a webpage about it.

And how do they get the Salmonella?
Could it be because they are stacked up on top of one another in tight cages with shtuff raining down on their bodies 24/7 until they drop dead??

Look, I don't take unnecessary chances, by any means. For years, I have had very little trust in the mass food production system and I've been a locavore since before the term was even coined. I've been raising and eating my own poultry and eggs for years, I've been buying cows & milk and other foods from local farms where I know the folks (and right now, the cow). I get a couple of deer every year, we eat less than a 1/4 cow a year, some bacon and a little fish.
My point here is that you CAN trust your food - if you know your food sources. Even urban folks could do better to get to know the sources of their food. Farm markets, buying cooperatives and local food markets are all reasonable alternatives. Yes, it's more expensive. So I don't buy Doritos and Soda, and with the money I save there, I can afford $5.00 a gallon milk I buy from a person who I know and who lets us come visit the cow that's giving us our milk.
The butter that started all of this comes from a local farmer who sells in a few local shops. He's a hoot. He won't sell skim milk - it's "suitable for pig slop, not human consumption" he says.

To tie this back to LTP, which is the crux of this, part of my LTP is having a relationship with the people and animals which bring me food. Not only do I have an economic relationship that is mutually beneficial with these folks, I have a long history with my local "supply chain" that is not at all dependent on any national-scale food processing infrastructure, and in many ways is my version of an "emergency food supply".

Ah, reminds me of when I used to go "upstate" into my 20s - there was the old lady with about 20 chicked in the back behind the house - and a simple sign - "eggs". You had to know.

Milk from a Jersey or Gurnsey cow - has so much butterfat it's yellow

CORN (oh yes - reminds me - have to head up there this weekend if I can- but probably cant) - watch the guy pick it and hand it to you - iced in the field. You would not believe how sweet it is. I know a place around here - hand cut kilbasa, and home smoked slab bacon (which I almost never buy, as I use about 1.5 lbs of bacon/year - 1 lb of that covering the Thanksgiving turkey

The problem with living in NYC - almost nothing local. Up until of, 10 years or so ago, there were still 1-2 active farms out in eastern Queens, which is where I life. It was "good". Although I say I won't get upstate, I will be out on Long Island (have to drop my daughter at Shelter Island), so I'll stop at the farm stands, and get some local veggies, fruit and the like. Leeks, Broccoli, corn and califlower among others should be in.

BTW, there is an underrated veggie IMHO - leeks - they can be kept underground, or a root cellar, or a frig for a LONG time, and they tatse GOOD

Hi kc2ixe,

On the Greenmarket website it says there's a farmers' market on Saturdays in Atlas Park. Is that very far from where you live?

Nurit

between parking and the like, take well over an hour. Heck, there is a farmers market right across the st from work every thursday - some baked goods, some apples/peaches etc, and one guy selling veggies from PA. Not worth it

Too bad.

Reading your earlier post brought back pleasant memories for me. I grew up on Long Island in the '50s and '60s. Not eastern L.I., but even in Nassau County we'd stop at farmers' stands on the local roads and buy tomatoes, corn and peaches. OMG delicious!

Nurit

Sorry, but, WTF? "Not worth it"? That's what kills local markets - the idea that a few purchases here and there are not worth it. I know a lot of those folks from PA who wake up at 3:30 am to drive to the many NYC greenmarkets, they count on these markets for their living, and as you might recall, no farms, no food. I support the local markets to the greatest degree possible, it's not only good for you, it's good for your long-term planning and prospects, in all senses of the word.

Not worth it - as in, these are the same people that are at Atlas Park on the week end - not worth an hour drive to get that little selection. If I'm going to drive an hour, I can be in Suffolk or Northern NJ, at a real farm stand, with a lot more choices, and a better selection

That said, it IS worth walking across the Street on Thursdays to check out the ONE farmer who shows up, and the Apple folks in the fall (that said, I USUALLY end up at one of their competitors actually up by the orchid the last Sunday in September, and a buy about 1-2 bushels of apples

I must say that I agree with everything Martin has said. Although I do have my own chickens, I do refrigerate the eggs. I've never understood the NEED to not refrigerate them when you have a refrigerator, but that's more of a personal issue.

The big bugaboo with raw milk (according to the government which is both ignorant, supercilious and taking payoffs) seems to be the bacteria Listeria. It can be found in some raw milk in minute amounts. Our USDA doesn't want ANY Listeria in milk, despite the fact that illnesses from Listeria in raw milk in the U.S. come to the grand total of zero. Yep.

If you have chickens and like to eat raw egg yolks in egg nog, all you have to do is collect one egg from each hen and have them tested for salmonella, to see if they have it in their egg-forming mechanism. None of them showed up with salmonella? My, my, what a surprise!

All the problems with animal protein in the U.S. comes from the combination of filth and high-density confinement operations, and filth and poor slaughtering practices. And stupidity.

The U.S. watched Britain dealing with BSE (Mad Cow Disease) for ten years. It didn't take long to discover that BSE was being transmitted by feeding cow remnants (waste, garbage) to live cows. They knew this, yet U.S. feed companies continued to add beef trash to cattle feed. Our USDA knew it, and they didn't say a word against using beef trash in cattle feed. All these complacent bozos just kept on doing what they'd been doing for years, and then here in Washington State, in a slaughterhouse just ten miles down I-5 from me, a cow showed up with BSE. Surprise!

The 'hot' version of E. coli O157:H7 was unknown until 1982. When 1.2 million pounds of of beef contaminated with it is recalled (3 days ago), where do you think it came from? From Joe Smith's 20 head that graze 200 acres of clean grass pasture, or from some crowded, heavily-medicated, manure-buried feedlot containing several thousand animals that spend their life shoulder-to-shoulder with thousands of others? As far as I've ever read, there has been no case of this contamination in grass-fed cattle in the U.S. In 2007, the U.S. produced 26.2 MILLION head of feedlot cattle. THIS is where the contamination is coming from.

And neither the USDA nor the feedlot cattle corporations want to clean up their mess. Instead, they are touting the advantages of irradiation. What they really want to do is continue to produce filthy meat, and just zap it with radiation to kill the bacteria. Is this what you want? It's like taking a steak, dipping it in liquid manure, then pouring bleach all over it. It's still filthy meat. YUM! I'll have seconds!

There has been some indication that microwaving food damages the molecules, which has some negative affects on the quality of the food, creating radiolytic compounds. So let's irradiate ALL of our food, just because most Americans have been trained to eat garbage and filth.

Why can't we just have clean food? Is this too much to ask?

Sue

I treat every gun as if it is loaded and I treat all raw meat and eggs as if they are contaminated, even if I'm a direct blood relative of the cow or chicken.

The good news is, all you have to do it cook it and its safe.


Absolutely! Its called COOKING.


Uh, absolutely not.

Ah, we know everything about everything, eh?

Sue