As I contemplate starting over, leaving most of my "stuff" behind, I am trying to see the shape of my future. I find I do not want to live a life being less adventurous or free. Yet every job I look at seems to guarantee I will have to surrender or defer being adventurous, happy, and free.

Maybe these are immature fantasies or a mid-life crisis, but I find myself being wiling to trade away higher income and more "stuff" for what looks to me a greater chance to experience more adventure, happiness, and freedom.

I look at friends, family, and aquaintences and do not see that they are adventurous or happy much of the time. From the outside and from my conversations with them, everyone feels locked-in - even if for some it is with the "golden handcuffs" of a well-paying job.

So I am looking at how much I need versus want, that sort of thing. I doubt if these are new questions for you either.

How about you? Getting the adventure, happiness, and freedom you were expecting? How about your loved ones? If not, what should be done about it?

Thanks.

Nothing wrong with re-evaluating one's life dweste, just be careful of the greener grass on the other side of the fence fallacy.

There's a saying I read a long time ago that sticks with me.

"The only Zen one finds at the top of the mountain is the Zen one brings with him".

If finding a new simpler career is what you really want for your life, is consistent with what you value, and you can make it work, go for it.

If you feel there's something missing in your life and you looking to a bit of adventure to fill it, you may be very disappointed.

I find raising my child to be all the "adventure" I can handle. What a wild strange trip it's been so far.....

You need very little. It's always those damn wants...

Amen Samhain!!

I think that most people who try that greener grass also discover that it usually has a very sour aftertaste!

It's ironic how we seek to make more money to have a better life, but in the process we surrender our life to our work. We buy things to entertain us, but who has time for entertainment? There's more work that needs doing.

Given the difficulties you've gone through, it's wise to give yourself time to grieve, re-centre, and re-focus. That takes time, and a change of scenery helps.

If you can live a life of "voluntary simplicity" for a year without causing hardship for others, I say do it.

But don't lose touch with your old network of friends and business acquaintances (assuming they're positive influences). Send them postcards and letters about your adventures and travels -- they'll be insanely jealous. Buy 'em a beer when you're in town. When you're ready to get back into the game, the contacts in your network will be worth their weight in gold.

My 2¢.

We just recently sort of started over. I prayed to over three years to get a fresh start when we realized that we can't raise kids where we were and couldn't make any more due to finances. I switched from a contract worker to a full time employee with a company I was contracted to and three years, three bonuses, 4 pay raises, one promotion and two kids later we are in a new place. We would drive by where we lice now knowing we could never afford one of those places but the income change, paying off debt, low housing prices and a good offer on our old house made it happen.

I try to keep adventure going. Nearly every weekend we try to go do something, get up sat morning, toss the kids in the truck and hit the road. Pick a state park or something and head there for the day. My son is 2.5 years old now and has been tent camping three times, stayed in a state park lodge twice, rental cabins twice, has been to six states, only one we haven't stayed overnight in (we drive straight through PA, avoid stopping there). Wife sometimes fights me when getting ready to go but afterward brags about our trips.

Thanks to all, and please keep it coming.

I was particulary struck by the comments of dougwalkabout.
Thanks.

Want a simple life, look here.

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/

Check out this Wikapedia info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liveaboard

I prefer the idea of living aboard a boat, BUT that is my personal preference. I can equally go for living aboard a small RV or a van, as well. Especially the van!

Check this out as well:

http://www.mesmerenterprizes.com/liveaboard.html

The guy we replaced at our current "job" lives full time in an older van conversion, volunteers as a camp host 'bout nine months out of the year. His only overhead is food, vehicle reg/insurance, and a little bit for fuel...

There's another saying that goes like this, "when you realise that what you have is what you need, you are truly rich..."

I've read some posts of yours dweste that spoke about some of these changes, if you care to share, what sort of work were you doing and what are you thinking of doing now? What happened to facilitate the changes?

I think you'll find that changing for yourself is much more rewarding than changing to suit others ever is.

One more saying, "fire your flaky friends..."

When "friends" and others become the obstacle on your path, you sometimes have to fire them for your own good. I went thru this myself just a relatively short time ago when I finally admitted that what was stopping me from achieving some things I thought I wanted to achieve were some of the people I chose to surround myself with.

In as loving a way as possible, I fired some "friends" and made the positive changes I needed to make. It was hard for awhile but so much better in hindsight as to be mind-boggling.

John E

I realized that I needed to "fire" myself. Endless struggle as a manager to motivate and prop up folks that did not seem to learn or care much about the success of the business just stopped making sense.

I did what I had to do but was locked into overhead that I couldn't slow down as fast as the rest of the quick change I was trying. While I was trying to work with that I learned my office manager / bookkeeper had not done some filings, and that triggered some unexpected penalties and interest. Her tears of apology to me did not seem to impress the tax folks.

So, I learned I am not a good enough business manager, financial manager, or personnel manager to have protected myself. All the while I was doing great work and succeeding for my clients.

My bad.

I expect to be out of the house in a few weeks. I am trying to donate to our local hospice all the stuff I have not been able to sell.

I am working to pull together the personal kit I will need to be a sailboat gypsy. I will be working on the fringes of what used to be my profession, while I consider moving on from that, too.

You guys and gals get to be some of my new friends.

I wonder if there is still (or every was, outside of Hollywood) a lifestyle of sailing your boat around some South Pacific islands, hauling people, supplies, just bumming, whatever? Be sure to read "And the Sea Will Tell," by Vincent Bugliosi first though...

Most of my friends and co-workers think it is crazy that I vacation without my family once per year. However I feel it is important for me to 'Adventure' and bond with with friends once a year as well as let whatever steam in the family that has been built up, go away.

For me fishing trips or backpacking trips that last ten days can make a whole year seem fulfilled without the sacrifice of scrapping for money, taking less than great jobs, etc.

A friend of mine though, worked at REI and they were extremely flexible with his Adventuring. He probably spent three months a year on outdoor activities for the company. Maybe you can mate your type of Adventure with a way to get paid for it.

My REI application has been in for some time. I am thinking about applying at the new Bass Pro set to open just south of me in October.

Truly depressing. Isn't it just like the government to take someone who's worked so hard to try and get just a little bit ahead and nonchalantly hang them out to dry? It's like they dont' want regular folks to do any better. I swear, if you want to get ahead in this day and age, you have to be willing to screw as many of your fellow man as possible, legally or otherwise. It is a sad indictment of our society and our leadership.

As for decompressing once a year, I call that elk camp. I haven't done that now since 2004. Maybe this year. Maybe that's also what's ruining my attitude.

When you have only what you need, isn't that a Bhuddist moment?

I have resigned myself to the notion that for the rest of my life it really doesn't matter too much how much harder I work, how many more sacrifices I am willing to make; I will not do any better than I am doing now, and it can only go downhill from here. Most likely my next assignment will mean some sort of pay cut. At least I am set now to do as much as I had planned for my family. I am at the point where I really can't be canned unless I quit on the job, the company can't afford to let me go, but they have no room left for me to expand, and I am unwilling to move up to corporate mgmt due to the law of diminishing returns.

The problem with winning the rat race I guess is the piece of cheese at the end of the maze is never what you expected it would be.

I've always heard that the problem with winning the rat race is that you're still a rat...;^)

No offense intended.

As for the wanting vs needing, yes it is a Buddhist thing. A great way of thinking and of dealing with the ebbs and flows of life in my opinion.

Benjammin, I don't know what you do or where you do it but I wouldn't ever count on being irreplaceable unless you own the business. And even then, things happen. I was forced to close down a very profitable small business due to the actions of another person that I couldn't foresee nor stop if I wanted to.
There are simply too many unknowns in the world.

John E

Ah..elk camp. Now that is exactly what I was trying to allude to.

When people look for changes in their life, there is always the need to 'have a fresh slate' or 'turn a new leaf', those comments don't mean, 'use a cheaper slate' or 'plant a whole new tree', it mean something needs to change to have a reboot in life.

Even small changes can have huge benefits. I go back to my one vacation a year by myself or bonding with a group of men that I have a strong relationship with, like my Godfather and cousin.

New jobs, new hangouts, new hobbies, can all turn a persons life in a completely new direction with fun and inspiration that doesn't often mean moving to a new city/state or giving away all your worldly possessions.

I see dweste's comments far to often amongst employees I work with. Whoever said the 'grass is not aways greener' is so right, but finding the grass is half the battle if you ask me and to stick with the metaphor, the 'grass' doesn't have to be the size of a golf course, it could be a very small plot. Meaning small changes can have huge benefits.

I hope whatever dweste is dealing with passes smoothly and gets exactly what is on the mind.

It is more the type of work I do that ensures I pretty much have a lock on my career. I've tried to get away from it even, and been drug back kicking and screaming. It's not necessarily this employer or any of the others I've worked for, it is that there is such a great need and so few who can do it. It is like a Dirty Harry thing. You know, any dirty job that comes along. When projects start having problems, and there are always plenty that do, I get called to go find out what's wrong and fix it. That's what I do now, and I've built up this reputation that makes people think I am good at it. Go figure...

It's not so much that I am irreplacable, more that I have offers thrown at me regularly, and if what I am working on now were to fold up or they got tired of me, I would be back at it doing the same thing next week for someone else, for pretty much the same compensation I have now, more or less. Corporate bosses like to get paid, and my techniques deliver where a lot of others fail or give up. It's not that I am anything special, I just got lucky a few times and figured out what works and what doesn't most of the time.

I too once owned a business, part of a partnership. We lost it because the partner with the most capital invested got his lawyers involved and lawyers will only speculate on a sure thing. We had a good thing going, and I was able to clear $15k the first quarter. I know how your situation feels.

I am more of a Taoist myself, in that I feel you should have what you want so long as it is within your means. Balance for me doesn't necessarily mean doing with less, unless that is all there is.

No offense from the rat quote, I've heard it before, and I have to say, doing what I do, I feel like a trapped rat a lot of times.

For me it has been a tough couple of years of seeing things fall apart and go downhill. Relationships, business, community, money, family member's health, etc. all have gone negative.

Lots of self-doubt along the way. Lots of disappointment in other people. I was over-extended and taking chances in life that made little sense.

This forum has helped me regain focus on what survival and preparedness mean. It is not about doing, it is about doing the right thing. It is not about stuff, it is about having the right stuff. And above all it is about always learning and practicing doing the right thing with the right stuff.

So I resolved to slow down, downsize, retreat to a firm foundation, take some time to regroup, and then start over. I am in the downsize-retreat portion of the program.

I am conserving and concentrating my resources for a positive, new start. I am posiitoning myself to encounter challenges from a better, more playful and adventurous place within my resources and well-thought-out boundaries.

From the outside I am sure it looks bad to be giving up so much, but from the inside I think I am regaining the only things that have true value. I guess time will tell.

Making do with what you have, isn't that our motto, more or less? There's lots of things that can come into our lives and upset the best laid plans, sometimes they are real acute and obvious, as with a hurricane or earthquake, sometimes more subtle, such as heart disease or drifting apart or a change in the economy. Whenever it is we realize that we are not so much in command of our fates as we would like, it is then that the survival perspective we cultivate on this forum and elsewhere serves our ability to "weather the storm".

It is in our nature to surround ourselves with all sorts of comforts, both literal and philosophical, in an attempt to make life seem less strenuous than it really is. It is part of an illusion we create for ourselves so that the ever-present knowledge of how feeble we really are isn't staring us in the face all the time. Such an illusion placates us, and draws us into complacency. Then when reality comes to call, we get stressed out and exacerbate the effects in our mind to the point that we compound our suffering by fret and worry.

The truth is, for the vast majority of us, we are much less in control of our own destiny than we convince ourselves we are. It takes constant effort to remain aware and vigilant that whatever we have, accomplish, or pursue in life, we are as likely, if not moreso, to lose it, to miss the mark, or to otherwise realize that having is not so great a thing as wanting.

I commend you for being able to recover your wits enough to realize what is truly important, and the real worth of the things in your life, both permanent and temporary, and to be able to distinguish between the two. Health, relationships, possessions and social status are all things we like to pursue, but remain things we cannot control, and inevitably become liabilities to our life's journey if we put more stock in them than they deserve. You have a little knowledge, and a means of getting by in life. That is most often enough. Everything else can either be replaced or is unavoidable, neither of which is worth worrying about that much.

Movies like "Click" are connotative models of learning that we can get our life's priorities a bit skewed, and once in a while need to get a good dose of perspective. Sometimes it is easier to take, sometimes not so much, but it happens, sooner or later, to all of us.

Night Hiker, you hit it right on the head. Couldn't have said it better...and I tried.

dweste, your not overexposing yourself by your admission. I think your brave for doing it because you seem uncomfortable about voicing it. Stay strong and Ever Forward.

In my experience-

Few of the people in the world have the skills and abilities to even begin to manage a business and to be successful at it for a while.
You have those skills and abilities.

Few of the people in the world have the insight to see what they did wrong, and lack the integrity to admit, to themselves or others, that they made a mistake.
You have insight and integrity.

Few of the people in the world can examine their lives and develop a plan to make a change, and fewer still can express their plans, doubts and fears in a coherent and compelling fashion.
You can do these things.

Most folks let their lives happen to them, and proceed into time governed by simple momentum. You have taken control of your life, developed a plan, discarded the things that don't fit the plan, and gone to work to make things better. The plan may be successful or unsuccessful. Whatever way it turns out, you will learn from it, and be stronger and wiser in developing the next plan.

Bad things and good things happen to us, and those things don't matter. Our response to them matters. You seem to be responding just about as well as it can be done.

Feeling uncertain and tentative in pursuing the new plan is a lot healthier than feeling arrogantly self-confident.

You are a powerful and intelligent guy. It shows in your observations and in the way you express them. The things you will be doing will be difficult and dangerous, frustrating and frightening-but I can guarantee that it will not be boring.

The only thing you need for success is motivation, with it you can overcome anything, learn anything, do anything.

It really is that simple. But you have to be motivated, and most people aren’t

Something similar to that, "Hold on to a dream for five years and it will become a reality. Unfortunately most people can't hold onto a dream for five minutes."

I have been holding on to the dream of a rich super model not being able to live without me in her life for longer then 5-years.

Still waiting for that knock on the door…

Well there's dreams, and then there's pure fantasy too...;^)

John E

Yea I know.

There's a little extra ingredient for the quote to work. Capacity.

For example, you can want to run a bank, but if you've bagged grocery's for five years and didn't graduate from college, you've got a pretty slim chance of it coming to pass.

I know your just joshing. But hey maybe, just maybe, someone you think is attractive, secretly thinks you are too. Just sayin'...

Good luck to you as you move both forward and in a new direction. To so completely change your life takes a lot of courage.

My younger brother did a similar thing a few years ago. He left all things familiar behind, many of which were good and rewarding, and took a giant leap of faith. He decided to move to China and become a teacher of English to Chinese college students. He had never been there before, did not speak a word of Chinese and had never taught before.

But he was unattached and had always been curious and adventuresome (he had spent a summer in Uganda as a teenager during the time of Idi Amin, not sure what our parents were thinking at the time). So he went for it. His regular letters from Beijing were turned into a book and now an audio book. To listen go here . The downloads are free and are PG rated. Let me know what you think and please leave comments at the site.

Blast, I think you'll appreciate the descriptions of daily life.

Andy

I'm no where near the changes you are contemplating dweste, but some of my own have been thrust upon me this week. Money is not really an issue, but earning some in the near and distant future might be needed to maintain some independence and maybe to bolster my ego, we'll see. The firm at which I have been working and I are parting ways. The one thing I know I need to do and keep doing is getting my butt up and trying to achieve something each day. The very good news is that on my way out some pretty good work I've done has come to some fruition. That feels good.

But it's now time to move onto new things, and for now, I'm going to try and make those things completely different things from what they have been in the past. I've had two careers so far, and maybe it is time for a third or maybe a third and fourth.

Go get 'em, Dan_Mcl!

It would be interesting to hear about your "starting over" from time to time.

One of the local pillars of our profession [he has all the awards, scholarships and rooms named in his honor, etc,] called and took me to lunch today. He wanted me to know that everyone missed my contributions, formal and informal, and wanted to convey their respects. He relayed his concern and that of a number of peers that I had not been seen around.

I was suprised that anyone noticed or cared. More work to do on the old self-esteem, I guess.

He offered to be a confidential sounding-board on whatever I would like to talk about. I gave him a few details and an overview of my experiences over the last year or so. His comment, "Jeez, you've been hammered! No wonder all those disappointments hit you so hard."

We talked about some of the practical challenges and what I decided to do about them. He shared that some of them are why he decided to retire, too.

It was nice to get assurance I was not the Lone Ranger and that I had the respect of at least some peers for whom I, in turn, had respect.

Why am I not the least bit suprised that you are well respected? You should be proud.

-Blast, who settles for feared

A lot of people wonder why I still work as a firefighter/paramedic since I graduated with honors from law school and theoretically could have gotten a much more lucrative job working for some downtown law firm.

Well, the answer is I'm already doing pretty much exactly what I've always wanted to do. I love my job. I do have a “boutique” law practice on the side, since I work 24 hrs on/48 hrs off at the fire department and I have the spare time. I've found out that I'm just not cut out to work in an office all day, every day. Money is also not a big motivator for me anymore. My $60K or so salary is enough, combined with my practice and all my side jobs, like teaching, consulting, and disaster response, to provide a comfortable lifestyle. I'll probably retire early, take my generous pension, and then practice full time.

I liked practicing law at a big firm well enough when I got a taste of it. But I didn't really enjoy representing banks, insurance companies, and other “big guys.” I also didn't get off chasing the almighty dollar. Moreover, I didn't like working under a boss, even a good one, or taking up I cause I don't believe is morally right.

Now, I am my own boss in my little specialty practice, and while I can't afford much, I can afford to choose who I will or won't represent. So I get to help out a lot of nurses, doctors, cops, firefighters, and military folks with their problems, and I don't have to screw over anybody who doesn't deserve it. I sometimes get a whiff from the big-time lawyers that they look down on me, which makes beating their asses all the more rewarding, and I just think to myself “yeah, buddy. How many people did you help, really help, in the last month or so.”

I feel free, and in control of my own destiny. I think I'm making a positive contribution with my life, and my conscience is clear. Mine is a pretty adventurous job, and offers quite a bit of excitement. Likewise, I like being a federal disaster responder, and have had some real adventures there, too, that's for sure. I also enjoy helping people in my law practice. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I think the secret, if there is one, is to find a job that is intrinsically rewarding and interesting to you, apart from the money and benefits. We spend far too much of our lives working to do it just for the money.

Just my $0.02

Jeff

Jeff, well said, and well done. Raising a glass of red to you ...
Salut!
Doug

I only know you a little, but I trust my gut feeling, and I'm not surprised at this one bit. Even on this anonymous forum, you convey the gravity and substance of someone who has accomplished a great deal more than he lets on to.

When you hear words of interest and concern from the network of people who know you much better, I think you should take them at their word. If they wanted you to go away, they wouldn't have called. So keep that up your sleeve, a psychological ace you can play when you need it.

dweste,

Your concerns are so palpable and real to me. My business failed and I had 6 digits in personal exposure. A lot of it was caused by things that I couldn't have known. Its amazing what combinations of crapola the powers that be can throw at you, much of which is most accessible to you as a pdf on their computer (read: not very). I won't go into details, but things are WAAAY more complicated for the modern businessman than ever before.

My experience was really nasty and affected me quite badly. I had some similar thoughts and observations to what you are having. I wish you the best.

Now, looking back on it 5 years later, it was a fantastic learning experience. I'm glad its over.

One quote I found helpful is one that is very famous, and you've probably heard before. But I'll say it anyway. As Winston Churchill once said... "When you are going through hell, keep Going."

I kept going. I live a much more peaceful life now. I have 4 kids. I no longer am wholly responsible for my own income. I have a much lower paying job which affords me massive flexibility (I am the only employee of this company in the united states). I adventure way more often than I used to (thanks blast), and I will finish my chicken coop tomorrow.

Its impossible for me to paint the picture in a few words, but I think you get it.

You can be the pheonix, too. And you will be happier for it. Keep going.

I should point out, that much like you expressed in your first post, I completely and totally took all responsibilty and blamed myself for everything for about 2 years. The wife and I could be driving along in the car and she could tell my mind had drifted on the subject due to my countenance. It randomly ruined my mood for a while. It passes.

Sorry if I'm being to ebullient on the topic. Just struck a chord with me, thats all. Hopefully you get something out of it.

Going to check out one of these sailboats on Saturday"

http://web.archive.org/web/20050306150032/www.perfectpocketyacht.com/page16.html

What I am trying to find in my price range is either a 26D:

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/7661


And my fantasy is to find an affordable 26S:

http://www.sailboatowners.com/classified/ownerview.tpl?brid=15412&fno=300