Did I just get suckered?

This guy is tiny, the whole package, less fuel, is about 2.5x2x5x1 and very light. They had them on sale for $20 at my local Wallyworld, there was a note about "inventory prep" so it looks like they just wanted them gone.

Then when I got it home, I noticed that Colman uses a 70/30 mix of propane and butane. I've never really paid much attention, being an ethanol and woodchip stove user mostly, but is that the normal mix? Or is it a screwball blend?

Normal blend is 80/20 but it varies either way depending on brand. Coleman fuel is recommended for really cold weather because it has more propane than most.

I think that stove (if it's the one I'm thinking of) will run off off any isobutane blend.

Hi Ironraven,

I believe 70/30 fuel is available from other suppliers, but you can proabaly burn other mixes no problem. When it is cold the butane burns poorly so the propane really helps, also keep the tank warm and insulated from the cold ground. Iso-butane mixes also burn better when it is cold. I have used many different kinds of fuel on my SnowPeak stove with no problem. I will check the web as there is lots of great information on cannister stoves from the ultralight backpacking crowd.

There was one type of Coleman cannister stove I remember that may have required it's own type cylinder, it may be called PowerMax?

Sounds like a great deal for $20.00

Mike

I think you are talking about the Coleman Powermax Fuel. I have a few lanterns and a stove that runs on it. It’s a good fuel that works well all times of the year. Butane doesn’t work well when it’s very cold (snowy winter temps) and propane is under 125-pounds of pressure making it necessary to have a heavy cylinder to contain it. Coleman gets around these 2 problems by making a blended fuel that incorporates attributes of both fuels.

Having used my stove and lanterns in the winter down to 20-deg, I can attest to the fact the stove and lantern works just as well as in the summer.

As long as your unit has the standard, threaded Lindel valve, you should be fine. I'm pretty sure that the Peak 1 does have the Lindel valve. You can burn any of the brands of Lindel valve fuel cannisters: Brunton, MSR, Primus, Jet Boil, Snow Peak, and Coleman. Snow Peak is usually the cheapest if it's available in your area. Snow Peak may actually have the 70/30 mix if I remember correctly. Most of the other brands have less propane and more isobutane/butane. REI carries Snow Peak, and I believe they'll ground ship to US addresses.

You got a good price by the way!

Addendum: here's a link to the REI site: http://www.rei.com/product/643061
This is the smaller size, which is good for backpacking. There is a larger size that is better IMHO for camping, but I didn't see a link for it. I'm sure you can find the larger size if that's what you need if you shop around.

Thanks guys- it looks like the normal fitting I see on these. I've used them, but it has been years since I owned one. My liquid stoves of choice are multi-fuels that use refillable bottles, but I figured I'd rather buy a $20 rig to keep in my car rather than a $150+, and the cold weather performance is the reason why I pounced on it.

Sounds to me like you got a good buy and it will use, as pointed out, any Lindal valve fuel cannister sold world wide. The exact fraction of butane to propane (or butane to isobutane to propane) is not as important as hype would have one believe. And they all burn fine in warm to cool conditions.

The Peak 1 cannister stove 3001 series ( http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/pdf/3001.PDF ) may be discontinued - Coleman site only shows the F1 and F1 PowerBoost conventional cannister stoves and only the 2 burner ("Expedition") PowerMax stove. Looks very conventional and should be a good above-freezing temps stove for the money. I do not recall what the retail price was on those.

The Powermax stoves rock, BTW. I did pick up the conversion widget for mine so I can use standard cannisters if Coleman ever stops making the Powermax cannisters. Those are liquid feed stoves by design and the cannister has a clunk tube in it to keep the feed liquid.

While you may be able to find a few butane-only cannisters here in the USA, they are not the norm here. Butane will not come out of the liquid state (no gas) around freezing. Almost all cannisters sold in North America are 70-80% butane with the rest either propane or isobutane and propane. Isobutane will vaporize at a little colder temperatures and propane will vaporize about down to -40 deg (either temp scale).

High altitude helps with vaporization at lower temps.

Problem with gas-feed stoves in cold temps is that the propane, being more volatile, boils off first, eventually leaving one with a bunch of liquid butane "stuck" in the cannister. Cooling from "boiling" the butane plus gas expansion from the cannister makes this happen rather sooner than you might expect.

A few stoves are designed to use an inverted cannister (liquid feed; propane pushes the liquid butane out). A close read on some remote cannister stoves (like MSR) reveals that one may carefully invert the cannister to liquid feed in cold weather. All the cannister stoves that *can* liquid feed have a gas generator tube looped into the flame from the burner head - for obvious reasons (to gasify the liquid).

Cannister stove afficiandos have all sort of interesting tricks to coax performance out of gas feed stoves in cold temps. <Yawn> - I will stick to my PowerMax Expert that stays steady in down to at least -22 deg F (as cold as I have used it so far).

Brunton sells a nifty little fold-out leg gadget that snaps onto both standard cannister sizes - makes the stove more stable. I picked one up at a Cabela's recently at a bargain price (on sale) to give to a friend who uses a conventional cannister stove simliar to the Peak 1.

Honestly, I really only trust white gas stoves in extreme cold, but going on 3 years experience with the PowerMax stoves is making inroads on my prejudices. I sure like the convenience of a cannister stove... just back from a 3 day, 25 mile backpacking trip thru a wilderness area (11,000 - 12,600 ft and too darned brief a trip!) - anyway, it was only the second or third trip where I really trusted the cannister stove and I'm about convinced now - getting lazier, I guess.

Suspect you will get plenty of good use out of that bargain.

Regards,

Tom

We might want to be clear about one thing.

Butane burns fine in cold weather...it just doesn't vaporize and if it won't vaporize it won't come out of the can in the configuration of the stove in question. Propane has the same issue but the temperature is way colder...like 50 degrees colder.

Addendum:
Butane vaporizes at -1C/31F
IsoButane vaporizes at -11C/12F
Propane vaporizes at -42C/-43F

I think ya done good.

With respect to fuel, the higher the propane content, the better the cold wx performance. HOWEVER, somewhere around +15F, you're going to have problems no matter which brand you buy. Some tricks:
-Stick the canister inside your shirt and warm it up a bit before using.
-Heat some water in a pan when you first start using the canister, then put the canister in the warm water.

Basically, anything you can do to keep the canister warm will improve performance. Some people will use a wind screen, which causes heat from the flame to be reflected back onto the canister, which can make the performance every bit as good as on a midsummer's day. Others will wrap a copper wire around the canister and run the end of the wire into the flame to conduct heat to the canister. HOWEVER, if you overheat the canister, it will go BOOM and could really ruin your day. Really. You've got to constantly monitor the canister by feel. If the canister starts to feel feel excessively warm to the touch, you've got to cool it immediately.

The other problem with cold wx operation is that the propane will burn off first, leaving you a canister full of butane/iso-butane that you can't use since it won't turn into a gas (until things heat up). If you can manage to keep the canister warm, propane burn off shouldn't be a problem, but like I say, pay really really close attention to what you're doing when warming a canister.

Just some things to consider.

Not all that different from the futzing I do with my Trangia around the same point. Only more efficient.

I think over all these types of stoves could be considered to have the 'least futzing' off all the types you can commonly buy.

If you want a stove you can just light and start cooking on, you've got a good one.

A bit more info:

Boiling Point (will not vaporize below this temperature):
Propane -42.1 C (-43.8 F)
Butane -0.5 C (31 F)
Isobutane -11.7 C (11 F)

Damn Jim do you ever read posts before you reply?

I already posted that LOL.

One note on the Brunton can stand: it doesn't fit the small size Snow Peak or Jet Boil brand canisters. However, the Jet Boil can stand does fit the small size Snow Peak and Jet Boil brand canisters.

A lot of the time, a post will come in while I'm typing. Great minds think alike?

A least all of our posts generally agree on the facts...

True!

I'd rather have the right answer twice than the wrong one once.

Here's an interesting FAQ at BackpackingLight.com:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html

Damn again Jim!

That's the same page I was reading when I decided to post the temperatures hahaha.

the zenstoves website is also a great source of info on canister stoves.

lol. Told ya. Great minds think alike.

Yes, it is, isn't it?

Now, something that is based on personal experience rather than a website: one real drawback to simple canister stoves is wind. Since there is no wind screen, they are susceptible to significant wind. They can blow out, but what occurs more commonly is that you lose a lot of efficiency and wind up using a lot more fuel to do a given amount of heating. Yes, I am aware that in this case were talking about a stove to be stored in someone's car kit, but if one were to go camping/backpacking and significant inclement wx were predicted, a canister stove might not be your best choice. A white gas stove which has no problem with a wind screen might be a better choice, although wind screen or no it too will be affected. There are some really pricey newfangled stoves out there (Jet Boil, MSR Reactor, etc.) that handle wind well if that's a feature that you need for what you like to do. Just something else to factor into the equation.

A windscreen will make any stove more efficient. I've heard that using a snug fitting wind screen with this type of stove can overheat the canister but I've never found that to be true...but then it's rarely super hot where I live.

The canister stoves with remote canisters circumvent this and also work better in the cold because you can flip the canister upside down. The fuel is then vaporized in a section of the inlet piping which flows over top of the burner. I have a Trangia burner I got from a friend (he thought it was too much work and bulky to use with his Trangia 25 kit) made by Optimus which is top quality. I've been trying to figure out a way to adapt it to work with the stove in my Crusader kit so I can use more types of fuel with the same kit but it's just too big to fit inside. Unfortunately it can't be used on it's own as it has no stand and no pot holder.

Look here for templates of pot stands you can make. There are 8 different pot stands, maybe one of them will work for you.

http://zenstoves.net/Templates.htm

Uh, yeah, that's pretty much what I said...

Sorry AyersTG. I wasn't referring to any one reply. I just wanted to clarify the point.

Thanks for the heads-up IR, I need a cheap solo backpacking stove and I have been fooling around with a Trangia and coke can stoves but I find them too anemic compared to my (pure) propane stove.