I just made offers on a couple small sailboats:

26D $5000 1987 Walnut Creek http://home.earthlink.net/~ulrichtribe/our1987macgregor26d/

26D $6000 1989 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/boa/764328132.html

FYI: The D means it is a water ballasted daggerboard model with a stern hung rudder, rather than the later (1990-94) swing centerboard models with post hung rudder that are denoted with an “S”. The ‘89 D has the higher coamings without the stainless steel cockpit rails of the 87 & 88 models.

This listing has some better information on this boat:
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/7661

My hope is to outfit such a craft as liveabord capable, and secondarily as a bug-in or bug-out possibility. This would give me a second "destination" for bug-out, in that I could sail off into the SF Bay and beyond as opposed to the foothill "retreat" I am working on.

First, anybody got a better deal out htere on a MacGregor 26 - any model?

Second, while I am comfortable with freshwater and inland sailing, including the SF Bay, I am not prepared for sailing out underneath the Golden Gate Bridge into the Pacific Ocean. This will be a fun goal to work toward.

In addition to reading and online study, I am thinking about Coast Guard Auxiliary for coastal navigation courses. Suggestions for other courses or schools that are not too expensive?

Thanks.

For a sailboat of that age, $192.30 per foot is reasonable, if not the best deal that you will likely find.

I would take a close look at the ribs and keel, if you can get within view of them and make a critical inspection for any wood rot. Chances are there won't be any, but I recommend that you look for it, considering the price per foot being asked.

The USCG Auxiliary has some great courses concerning the Rules of the Road (and please be smart enough NOT to believe that sailboats have the Right of Way) and on Navigation.

There are other organizations that teach those same classes and more, check them out. (my memory is failing me at this moment). Go to your local bookstores and get a copy of Chapman's or some other comparable book that will teach you the Rules, Navigation, Signals, etc.

Talk to professional seamen about tips on where safe anchorage may be utilized in rivers (below the points) and offshore.

Thanks!

I offered $3,000 so we will see.

The boats are all fiberglass with floatation all over. I will probably require a marine survey and ownership history search if I have to pay close to full asking price.

I picked up Chapman's a couple times and couldn't get my brain to engage the material. Math is not my strong suit, though I get along very well with map and compass on land. I suspect navigation will seem more relevant!

Where does one run into professional seamen to talk to about such practical stuff? I have joined three online forums to have access to experienced sailors in my area.

Thanks again.

Additional thoughts:

The layout looks very good to me, I lived aboard a 26 ft Watkins for 9 months and played on it for 8 years total.

For living aboard, you'll find that those hanging baskets are great for storing fruits and vegetables. Hanging hammocks alongside the bulkheads provide great storage places for your clothes, blankets, etc. Roll everything up as tightly as you can (just like camping).

As a Bug Out/In Vehicle, no matter where you sail, you've got your motel room with you.

I would not have a problem getting 250 miles from land in such a craft as long as I had my charts, GPS, and VHF-FM radios including the NOAA Wx Freqs.

Keep in mind that there are certain flags that you should keep onboard:
The US flag (ensign), Alpha (divers down), Bravo (refueling), Delta (breakdown), Oscar (man overboard), your state flag (courtesy), a black ball (anchored), are all good to have onboard.

There are certain flags that it isn't a good idea (IMHO) to have onboard:
The Jolly Roger (pirate flag), The Confederate Flag (a flag of rebellion), or any other flag that may be controversial, is not a real good idea to fly or HAVE ONBOARD.

There are certain things that are fun and/or useful to have onboard and to make use of:
A wind sock (they come in all sizes, colors, & designs. they tell
you the wind direction and strength, at a glance.), a RADAR reflector (this will save your life, even in the Bay), and there are a few other things that might interest you as you look around.

Take it for what you think this is worth. Bon chance et bon voyage, mon ami!

The navigation is best learned by:

1st - Having someone walk you through a fictitious or fantasy trip, on the chart, from where you are to that fantasy port of call that you've always wanted to make. This teaches you how to plot courses, turn bearings, how to take bearings off your magnetic compass, danger bearings, and to plot every turn will teach you how to plot on a chart.

2nd - Don't forget then to figure out the tides and currents at the port of departure and arrival, as well as those places, daily, that you are passing near.

3rd - Calculate what speed you hope to make (on a sailboat, 5kts is the rule of thumb) and layout your DR (dead reckoning) calculations along your route.

4th - Apply it to your trips out into SF Bay until you get proficient in the art.

I don’t know that much about sail boats, but I would guess it could handle the ocean if once you get the skills to do so. It could be a lot of fun to learn to do. Also woman love sail boats and that can’t be all bad for you, unless you are married.

I had a friend he and his wife live on a 43 foot boat all winter (in Toledo Ohio) while a home was being built. They bubbled the marina water (had pipes run under water throughout the marina water and then pump air through the pipes all winter to keep the water from freezing.)

They loved it, they only problem was the 100-yard walk to the shower building.


When I was in school I read a book about a boy that sailed around the world on a boat about that size (if you are interested it was called “the boy that sailed around the world alone”)
Link to it http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Sailed-Around-World-Alone/dp/0307165108
It was a great adventure read, reading about all the problems and how he overcame them and the cultures he saw.


See if your local library has it to read as Amazon wants $35.00 for it.



I would get a good GPS that is suited for waterways as far as mapping. Also a solar panel setup and a small wind generator, charge controller, battery bank and a good size inverter will give you an unlimited amount of power.

That and a fishing pole, and an alcohol stove and you have an unlimited supply of food, you will have to buy denatured alcohol for fuel.

Excellent advice, thanks.

There are a few books written by people who've lived for extended periods in small sailboats, some of whom are relatively famous. The books have a lot of practical tips and gotchas that I thought were really informative. You can't learn to sail by reading, but you can learn a lot about living on a sailboat that way.

I particularly thought "Time on Ice: A Winter Voyage to Antarctica" by Deborah Shapiro and Rolf Bjelke (two world class sailors who've set many records) was absolutely superb. They purposefully wintered over in Antarctica stuck in the ice, in a miniature replica of Shackleton's trip. Talk about being self-sufficient.

They purposefully wintered over in Antarctica stuck in the ice.


Some people are crazy!!!!!
LOL

There are few things more fun than messing about in boats. A great part of that fun is equipping it.

I had a great sailboat here in the Chesapeake Bay (a Pearson 36), and the one thing I found was that all sailboats, and possibly all boats, are water soluble. Thus, to best protect your investment in your new boat, avoid all contact with water. Absent that, apply liberal amounts of time and elbow grease.

Seriously, I think a sailboat is a great, and under-considered option for bug out/bug in. Transportation and shelter and free (wind) energy.

Wish you the best.

Actually, they're a pretty normal couple! And they weren't all that far from Palmer Station, a US scientific base that has a physician. They vowed not to use the base outside of a life threatening emergency and went so far as to bury supplies in the surrounding ice in case of fire. (Antarctica is the driest place on earth and fires are actually the main threat. It's generally around 20-30F degrees where they wintered, near the tip of the Antarctic Peninsula, although the wind can be a b*tch!)

Some real nuts have wintered over on the ice much further south; some of the survivors have written books with the few fingers they had left.

If you want someone to winter in an island in the Bahamas I’m all for it, I might even volunteer to go through the stress of doing it myself. But Antarctica, forget it!!!

at 250 miles offshore, I'd want a quality offshore life raft, as well as good PFDs for the entire crew. As for GPS, at least two with plenty of spare batteries.

Oh, and an EPIRB with PLB backup

If I am sailing that far offshore, you can rest assured that I would have all of the appropriate equipment.

Then again, I've been doing this stuff for over 30 years.

Saw a documentary about the Martin family sailing around Iceland, Greenland, etc, in a relatively small boat. There's a book too. Here's a link with some of their info. Pretty interesting.

http://www.setsail.com/s_logs/martin/martin.html

I have a 31' sailboat ready to go as my ultimate escape "just in case" I can't stay hunkered down at home. She is fiberglass, shallow draft, and rigged for all safety and comfort for the two of us. I would suggest courses from Power Squadron, USCG, and lots of reading. I learned the basics of sailing, knots, dead reckoning navigation, rules of the road, and lots more from those courses, but the best teacher was experience...in little baby steps. We sailed in bays, then marina-hopped on the Texas coast, then headed out to blue water when we felt confident. Of course, have a VHF radio, GPS, Epirb, and all the goodies...harness, tether, life jackets. Welcome to the world of those of us who like to throw money into a hole in the water!

Thanks a lot DWeste!

Now I'm looking at sailboats again, like I would ever have the time to use one!!!

You have relit the fever. Now I've got to undergo a very long bath with massive amounts of ice poured in.

For doing this, I think he should compensate (sp?) you by helping outfit your new boat you now have to buy…

I already have the equipment required/needed to sail most anywhere. It is a nice sentiment.

I will stick to my plan and in 15 years, I'll start my retirement job with a new sailboat!

At least make him come wash the boat every so often...

This just feels like a forum where we should have some guy named "Barnacle_Bob."

Rule number one of the rules of the road.

If it is bigger than you it's got the right of way.

Sure under some circumstances the rules may say you are the one with the right of way. But size difference is a matter of physics not law. If you go head to head with something the size of a tanker you will lose.

When I was on a sub we were coming into port. Some idiot in a sailboat decided to claim right of way. Well a warship always has the right of way. But besides that we could not have maneuvered well enough or stopped fast enough. He finally realized he would lose and veered off. If he had not he would have been run over.

Not "Barnacle Bill"?

Ooops, did I type "Bob?"

I meant "Bill."

Who the hell ever heard of a "Barnacle Bob?" Must be some wannabe who hijacked my computer.

What you were trying to quote is: "The Law of Gross Tonnage"!

Sorry to disagree, a warship does not always have the right of way. This is a fable told by those in the Navy who interpret the Rules in their favor. It causes problems.

I really want to find those sailboat salesman that keep telling their clients that, "Sailboats always have the Right of Way", WRONG!

Check the Rules of the Road concerning "Right of Way Heirarchy". It explains who has the Right of Way under what circumstances.

I also want to get my hands around the throats of those VHF-FM radio salesman that tell people that the radio only works on the "High Power" setting.

I also want to get my hands around the throats of those fisherman who have immigrated to the states (after 1975) that believe they have to "sing to the shrimp" on Ch 16 VHF-FM, on HIGH POWER, in order to draw the shrimp to them to be caught!!!

I'll get off my soapbox now. Thank-you.
Another Licensed Captain of the Inland, Western Rivers, and Great Lakes Waterways.

You know, I enjoy posts by wildman800 even when they are a little bit scary - no, especially when they are a little bit scary!

But I know what you mean. I sailed small boats a lot growing up. Then I owned and ran a series of small powerboats. I think power boats are often practical, but there's something about sailing that just seems right.

It's kind of like golf: playing from a powered cart is convenient and fun enough, but I always connect with the game better when I walk.

As for military always having the right of way: What happens when a sub returning to Norfolk at night collides with a low lying barge under tow that was extremely difficult to see?

A: The CO loses his job and is replaced. I'm not sure a board of inquiry even recognizes "The Law of Gross Tonnage".

I'd make darn sure that I added a survival or "Gumby" suit for everyone on board to that list, if I was that far off shore. A PFD is fine to keep you afloat, but it's not going to do much to save you from hypothermia. Water temperatures near San Francisco are probably well below 70 degrees fahrenheit, right now. Water temperatures around Nantucket are about 70 now. At a water temp of 70, you may have as little as 2 hours before you are unconscious or totally exhausted. You are unlikely to survive two days at that temperature in a PFD.

I worked on tugs that were mostly in brown water, rarely went into areas that were not considered Inland waters under the Rules of the Road, hardly ever left sight of land, and I cannot recall ever getting as much as 20 miles offshore. We always had Gumby suits on board.

You guys are starting to make me miss the days when I used to go sailing with my grandfather!

Power boat skippers often have a kill switch lanyard clipped to them that shuts off the motor if they fall overboard [or forget and just step away from the helm]. This means the boat may be close enough for a solo skipper overboard to self-rescue, and it certainly announces the man overboard to any crew so they can do a rescue.

Any sailboat equivalent?

I don't think so. Dumping the sails and getting rid of the energy in them can be accomplished by doing a few different things, anyone fo which may be appropriate in a certain set of circumstances. If you have a main with a vang, blowing the vang can dump a lot of power, and I've done that to avoid rounding up. Heading the boat into the wind can almost always work, if you have the available water and have water over the rudder.

I think your best bet is to use a harness and keep yourself in the boat, and you also need to try and avoid conditions more likely to remove you from the boat. If you want to put something on to help keep you in the boat, and keep you afloat if you leave the boat, try something like: http://stores.implex.net/sailboats/delux...0264af67e9ba311

And I guess with no hand on the tiller or wheel, unless they are lashed or there is an autopilot on, a sailboat will fall off the wind and slow rather than continuing to drive forward.

That's about it. Then it will drift between the winds and the currents. If you wear a harness and lifejacket, then you will end up swimming to it and getting back onboard.

Otherwise, it drifts away and becomes another "Mary Celeste".

Sort of. Man Overboard Beacons can be hooked to an auto-pilot that will hard over the rudder when set off. However, worth noting that simply getting back into the boat, self-rescue, can be a challenge if the boat isn't properly prepared and equipped and doubly so in colder waters.

I'm thinking it would be helpful to have some kind of swim ladder deployed or deployable so you could haul your wet, tired self back onboard. And having set aside a non-alcoholic, quick energy man-once-overboard revival drink might be handy.

Trailing a ladder off of the stern, especially a folding type that you can handle while in the water is quite common.

I am not familiar with the avg water temps along the west coast of California.

Actually, your survival odds are pretty good at those water temperatures, as long as the PFD keeps you afloat. Without floatation, you're a gonner once you are unconscious. PFDs significant enhance the survivability factors.:



Add a life raft, as suggested, and once out of the water everything improves. Moreover, the whole idea of the EPIRB and PLB is to get you rescued in hours, not days.

Having said all that, an exposure suit would be a definite advantage, particularly in even colder waters further north, but I can think of few recreational sailors who carry one.

A harness and appropriate safety lines to ensure you stay on board also adds to the equation. No single piece of gear solves all the issues, but a system with belts and suspenders type approach will provide coverage to take care of most situations.

Most of the year the nearshore coastal water is high 40s and low 50s ala Mark Twain's "The coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco." Thick wetsuits on surfers, divers, and kayakers.

Far south waters much warmer most of the year. Thin, partial, to no wetsuits on surfers, divers, and kayakers.

These guys seem to have thought a lot about sailboat safety gear:

http://www.solosailor.org/pdfs/mac08reqequip.pdf

2300 miles to Hawaii. From there it's another 2560 miles to Samoa, 2590 to Tahiti or 3090 to Fiji. You shouldn't have too much trouble with ocean temps at any of the above or points in between. Learn to fish and get some good kelp recipes.

That seems cold, but it may very well be. I've never sailed on the U.S. west coast, but I know that the largest current is one bringing water south along the coast. Quite the opposite of the Gulf Stream, which warms the waters off the U.S. east coast, probably to about Cape Cod. (IIRC, both Coasts have currents that can run in many directions, both counter-currents off of the main currents and currents due to other factors, such as tidal currents.) My guess would be that the rivers on which wildman800 works vary a lot with time of year and weather conditions.

Having as little as two hours in waters of 70 degrees, I'd like to have the survival suit. I know one CAN survive in waters of 70 degrees for as long as 40 hours, without a Gumby suit, but I also know that you'd have more time in the suit. I want as much time as possible, if I am treading water hoping for rescue. Only your head is going to be above water, and a head is a very small thing in the middle of an ocean.

Ocean temps:

http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/dsdt/wtg12.html

I personally have measured water temps in the high 40s both in the San Joaquin Delta and nearshore when fishing during cold snaps. I have read similar accounts in kayaker and diver online forums.

Basically the Japanese Current flowing south makes this part of the West Coast very fertile from upwelling and very cold.

On the MacGregor (the other link is expired):

How many of you are there? I've sailed boats that size, and they're small. Two close people for a length of time would be my limit. If it's your bug out-bug in boat, what is the capacity for the toilet? I understand that concerns about fouling the bay with sewage wouldn't be a big concern if you're bugging in, but if you're tied up or anchored, surrounding the boat with your effluent could be unpleasant.

It's got an outboard motor and has a separate connection to charge the battery; those things fail from exposure to salt air and salt water. The owner refers to a lazareth, so I'd have questions about his capabilities as a sailor and maintainer of the boat. Needs minor repairs and he'll try to do them. :-> Uh, no thanks. Just discount the price.

I've never owned a boat - I always sailed a charter or with friends. I'm assured by those who own a boat that it's _very_ different owning one. I think having a boat as a bug out destination is a good idea in the San Francisco Bay Area if you have it in the water and can get to it without having to drive there (or it's a reasonably short drive with no collapsed overpasses on the way).

phillip, thank you for your post.

At this time it is me and the cat.

The standard for these boats is a glorified porta-pottie that I intend to replace with a true marine head, holding tank, in-tank treatment system, and seacock release of what the literature assures me is EPA approved stuff. I will also set things up for the use of pump out stations.

I am hoping this will also allow the use of RV dump stations on land. One of the attractions of this particulat line of boats is their trailerability.

I intend to begin as a lievaboard so on normal days I am unlikely to be more than an hour or two away at most, and usually within a 20-minute drive or less on surface streets.

Everything on a boat may fail so I will set up maintenance checks and carry spares as I can afford to do so. A an official "hole in the water into which to throw money" boat upkeep will be ongoing.

I guess it's no different than living in a Westfalia van...only a van with shot shocks that never stops bouncing

Here is a interesting book y'all might want to read.

Adrift: Seventy-six Days Lost at Sea by Stephen Callahan
"Before The Perfect Storm, before In the Heart of the Sea, Steven Callahan's dramatic tale of survival at sea was on the New York Times bestseller list for more than thirty-six weeks. In some ways the model for the new wave of adventure books, Adrift is an undeniable seafaring classic, a riveting firsthand account by the only man known to have survived more than a month alone at sea, fighting for his life in an inflatable raft after his small sloop capsized only six days out. "Utterly absorbing" (Newsweek), Adrift is a must-have for any adventure library. "

IMHO, a 4 person life raft is the minimun you would want for 2 people. Make you have a "abandon ship" bag, well packed and withing easy reach (if not tied to) the life rafe. Go over the life raft gear several times, untill you are very familier with it.

When two of us are sailing offshore and taking turns at the helm and sleeping, the one on watch wears a safety harness and is tethered to the boat; we also have a swim ladder that can be deployed from in the water; also we trail a yellow nylon ski rope so hopefully if a person falls overboard, he can grab it as it goes by (nylon so it floats and won't foul the rudder or prop). We also have walkie talkies on so the guy at the helm can yell to the one below as needed! Sounds like overkill but one of us seems to take an unintentional swim on occasion

Do you recommend water activated PFD's or is their a problem with inadvertent inflation?

Sounds like being prudent to me, not overkill. And it seems to have worked if you are all still around after taking some unintentional swims.

The line you mention is probably polypropylene not nylon. Polypro floats and is often used as ski line. See: http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/21.htm

Merchies also have a line over the side while at anchor. The Merchies have a lifering tied to the line, to help the person in the water have something larger than the line to grab hold of.

I've never seen it dragged while the vessel was u/w but I can think of many reasons why that would be fruitless in any situation.

Modern PFDs with Hydrostatic Inflators are pretty reliable and not a problem. Even the designs with pills are much less likely to be a problem these days than in older designs. For sailing especially, auto-inflating is the way to go. Too often you may end up in the water unconscious and it needs to take care of you, IMHO.

Are there any PLBs that both float and are stable enough in water to get an active GPS lock?

No. All a floating PLB can be expected to do is not sink. It cannot even be expected to maintain the antenna out of the water to transmit a distress (though some may under calm, very calm, conditions). If you want "stable" in the water, you want an EPIRB. a small and personal beacon and stable in the water are pretty much mutually exclusive. <g> The concept is that YOU are stable in the water (far more so than an EPIRB, BTW) and will hold the PLB in the best orientation.

Hi Doug, thanks for the quick response!

Ok, two questions:

1) So you think it is at least plausible that a person could handhold a PLB in somewhat rough water long enough for it to make contact? (I'm not talking about storm conditions; think 5' waves rather than 10' waves.)

2) Have you done your typical hands on, no holds-barred review of EPIRBs yet? (If so, I missed it.)

For being at sea, there is no substitute for a registered 406MHz EPIRB.

I've had them blurp for a second or two while taking them out of the rack (in the shipyard), to be switched off, not realizing that it had activated, until about an hour later when I would get a phone call from USCG LANTAREA New York, NY; inquiring about our safety!!!

+1 on this any sailor reading it. The copyright on my copy is 1986, so it may be hard to find. But it has a couple of important things that I think are still relevant 20+ years later:
1. don't count on the "survival" supplies packed with the raft.
2. have an way to fix punctures in the raft, and re-inflate it, considering rule 1.
3. have a way to produce potable water, considering rule 1.
4. have a way to get food, considering rule 1.
5. How to improvise a sextant.

I think there have been other threads about life raft contents and their problems, as well as something Les Stroud did on one of his episodes that indicated a similar problem. I have no personal experience in this regard, but think that it should be possible to supplement a life raft's equipment with a floating, sealed (e.g. screw top) large diameter PVC pipe with reliable equipment inside and tied to the raft (or some similar concept), so it goes over the side when the raft does, and stays attached.

While all your points are valid, the most critical difference between then and now is that Steve didn't have a 406 MHz EPIRB and that significantly changes the entire survival equation. While one doesn't want to depend solely on an electronic based means of survival, battery operated devices can still fail, the fact is that they have proven to be remarkably reliable and effective. Today, particularly with EPIRBs and PLBs, such an event should be an extraordinary exception to the rule for a reasonably prepared sailor.

Note please that Steve is a Member of the Board of Directors of the ETS Foundation...

Not a problem, BTDT...



http://www.equipped.org/406_beacon_test_summary.htm
http://www.equipped.org/406_beacon_test2_toc.htm

Wow.

I just skimmed through your 113 page report. Amazingly detailed.

What's incredible is both that these systems exist and how much background knowledge is actually needed to use one successfully. Unlike my digital camera, these are not really "push here dummy" devices.

The last time I went on a real adventure (6 years ago, sigh), we had a suitcase satellite phone but were so far south it was close to useless. But all that meant was sailing further north to get reception. Had we been stranded somewhere, it would have been dead weight. (Our Mustang dry suits extended water survival from 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Being in the water wasn't an option, which is why we were always tied to the boat when on deck.)

I frequently wear a water activated PFD (the older pill type) and they are comfortable. I have never seen one "go off" in the rain but one inflated in a puddle of water in the bottom of the boat. Three times my partner has caught his pull-cord on something and blew himself-up!

Mike

I should look at getting the newer Hydrostatic model.

I always thought that an inflatable 2-3 man raft (with oarlocks & oars) would be the perfect small boat/lifeboat. Attached to the line that is run along the topsides of the raft would be the PVC tubes with Abandon Ship supplies.

I would make a couple of 4"x4' PVC pipes, capped on one end and with a watertight threaded plug on the other end.

Supplies would consist of:

2-4"x4' PVC sealable tubes lashed to port & stbd sides of liferaft
(stores abandon ship supplies & will hold rain water caught by the tarp)

406MHz registered Epirb
(attached to the liferaft via a halyard clip/lanyard while mounted on the boat in the "safe" position)

4 water pouches per person
(for open ocean sailing-6person crew x 4 = 24 water pouches)

1 pack of Datrex 3600 calorie food bars per person
(for open ocean sailing-6person crew x 4 = 24 Datrex packs; shiny aluminum foil can also supplement signal mirror)

1 orange or red tarp, large enough to cover the raft (6'x8')
(shade during the day, wind and temp protection during the day & night, & a rain catcher; shelter if landed)

1 deep sea fishing kit
(you can fish for "sushi" while waiting to be found & if landed)

2 different firestarters + 2 Bics in 4 qt size Ziplock bags
(if landed, fire to: signal, cook, heat source; Ziplocks-too many uses to recite)

1 large pocket/lockblade knife

1 signal mirror on a lanyard
(kept around the neck of who's on watch, in the liferaft)

1 flare pistol on a lanyard, with 6 red rocket flares
(kept around the neck of who's on watch, in the liferaft)

Note: Depending on the size of the crew, fill any remaining spaces in the tube with water pouches.

The person on the boat, standing watch, always keeps a handheld VHF-FM radio (turned off), in a radio condom, around their neck on a lanyard.

Each person in my crew has regular duties, collateral duties/specialties, and emergency duties via a Watch, Quarter, and Station Bill (WQSB).

The WQSB lays out the reponsibilities of each crewmember for every type of emergency that can be expected to arise at sea. For Abandon Ship, 1 person is charged with getting blankets, 1 is to grab whatever extra water they can grab, 1 is to get out Distress Calls for as long as possible, 1 is to grab extra food, 1 is to grab the logbook, charts, and nav gear, and so on and so on.

There are other things that I'd want to have with me but this is the general outline for a small sailboat with a small crew.

NOTE: Those 4" PVC pipes also make great anchor buoys.

I hope it goes without saying any and all gear should be USED periodically to insure familiarity and functionality. The Coast Guard lost two ships; a 180' buoy slinger and an river tender in the early 1980s. Both were involved in inland or harbour collisions. One capsized with loss of crew. Many were found with OBAs ( oxygen breathing apparatus ) partially donned. Only one was properly worn, and it's victim shoved the cannister in wrong.I forget how many training sessions I went to and watched others moan and complain, or even quietly slip out when a film was started.

Amen to all of that, Brother!

I did a tour on the USCGC RARITAN, she had rescued the only two survivors from the USCGC ESCANABA (WWII).

My family lost the son of a friend on the USCGC White Alder.

One of my best friends is a survivor of the USCGC Blackthorn.

I was glad not to have known anybody on the USCGC CUYAHOGA.

I had friends/former shipmates on the USCGC MESQUITE, all of which were lucky enough to have survived intact.

"...training sessions I went to and watched others moan and complain, or even quietly slip out when a film was started..."

Sadly, it happens in all areas. I was a training officer for many many years, getting officers to practice the stuff that could save their lives was like pulling teeth. Then when something bad happened, they wanted to claim lack of training...

Understandable, but...

And then you have secondary folks - CERT, and other groups that are VOADS (Volunteer Organizations Active in Disaster) that would LOVE to have training, often basic stuff. I can tell you that I've ended up parked on the side of the street, right behind a Red Cross ERV, I I would have loved FORMAL training on how to park to set up a safer zone (as we know, the side of the road, even one with a 20 mph speed limit, is never REALLY safe), how to properly set out flare lines (the police on scene did help us, but they wont always be there) and the like. I've had folks in various FDs (not FDNY) and other Police depts give me some safety hints, and it helps. It also helps becasue I can look at the guys we are working with, and ask for/give information in "their language" (despite NIMS and the like, knowing what to call XXX helps, instead of having to say "you know, the tink that looks like a Y, with but with a blunt end, blah blah blah"

My intended berthing area is about 70 miles or about 12-sailing-motoring hours from the open sea through sometimes narrow ship channels dredged out of the San Joaquin - Sacramento Delta. I don't expect I will feel comfortable sailing into the Pacific soon, but that is my ultimate goal. Now where the heck should I sail to in a wide-scale emergency situation?

Very Simple. "Some place the "emergency situation" isn't, and where you have a a sure thing getting of supplies".

I am sure I did something in a former life so that I deserve that repsonse.

Nonetheless, assuming I sailed out under the Golden Gate Bridge safely into the Pacific Ocean because at least all of central California and the SF Bay were coping with some emergency situtation, would you turn left / south, right / north, or perhaps just keep going to the Hawaiian Islands? Are there specific locations you would head to / avoid??

I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$.
I would have plans set up for all directions along with available navagation charts, and when the time comes, pick the best one to get you out of trouble. A list of places to resupply in all directions would not hurt you. Suppose you plan to go south as your bug out route, and the problem is south, you might be heading into the problem.
With a sailboat, a set of wind charts, and water current info might be very handy.

SBRaider is right.

you need to have contingency plans for all directions.

for example, out of san francisco bay turning right will send you "uphill" - against the typical currents and wind. unless you head straight out and then turn right once you're capable of a 'reach' to head north. "reach" = more to learn. but where are you going?

if you go straight, hawaii is about 30 days. are you supplied with charts, gps / sextant, water and food to get there?

if you turn left, you're going 'downhill' - with the typical current and winds. but where are you going? santa cruz, monterey, santa barbara, l.a. or mexico - which has its own set of issues?

the point is, your horizons are unlimited, you just need to think about where you would go if there was a problem and then be stocked and prepared to go there.

to travel in a vehicle on land is one thing - in a sailboat you need to be exceptionally self-reliant.

once out of s.f. bay on the way to hawaii there are no marinas. seems simple, no offense intended, but just think about all of the issues. overwhelming? yes. doable? you will surprise yourself!

"...a wide-scale emergency situation..."

A "wide scale" situation will undoubtedly take in all of the SF Bay and Delta area. The coast south of SF is somewhat more populated than to the north, or at least it used to be. So, depending on what the emergency situation is of course, I am thinking north. Maybe as far as Ft. Bragg, or even Eureka, although that is quite a distance. I would assume (always a dangerous undertaking) that there would be some protected anchorages somewhere in the Point Reyes National Seashore area, but you would have to bring all provisions. There are also a few state parks/beaches along the way where, if you have a dingy/liferaft, you could probably get potable water and maybe take a shower. That is my best non-sailor guess...

[quote=SBRaiderI wasn't trying to be a smart a$$. [/quote]

I know. I am just reacting a bit to the enormity of expanding my bug out horizons to include where I could conceivably sail. My land-based 3-day overland by foot bug out route pales in comparison.

That terrible sound is my mind being forced to expand its context. Three days of normal sailing would put me at least 100 miles into the Pacific Ocean some direction from San Francisco. Never been there, never done that.

Survival afloat is a whole different thing. Wind, tides, currents, weather, etc. require a new look at my would-be environment.

It's kind of a scary-exciting feeling to be such a rookie, again.

this will all take time. take bite-sized pieces. you'll get there!



yeah, but just think of all of those other people you won't be seeing or fighting for space or resources for.

first, learn how to motor and handle the boat in the inland waters.

second, graduate to putting up one sail.

graduate to two sails.

then graduate to sailing in s.f. bay. wow!

once you feel comfortable in the bay, head out into the pacific. guaranteed you'll have the biggest smile on your face as you pass under the golden gate! not many folks get to see it from that angle.

it's a new goal for you.

talk to a lot of sailing / boating folks. i think you'll find a real sense of community there. they tend to look out for each other.

oh, and go to the library or a big book seller and look for "chapman's". it's kind of the bible for all things nautical. check it out of the library and when funds ease up you might find an older copy to buy - these things don't change all that much.

and "royce" is the book about sailing. you can teach yourself.

or find some guy or gal who's sailed before and will trade a ride in your boat for educating you about sailing in the process. lots of them out there. you'll find 'em. especially if they know you're a rookie!

I am comfortable sailing and motoring in the relatively calm inland waters of the Delta, though not with this new boat. Gaining that comfort through cautious experiment will be the first goal.

I loved the few times I sailed on the Bay! Look forward to sailing my own boat there.

I foresee a few classes and volunteering to crew other people's boats from time to time. Hopefully, when the student is ready the teacher will come!

"...pass under the golden gate..."

Doin' that on the 21st of next month! Sure, on a big white cruise ship instead of driving my own little bitty boat, but still, we're goin' under the bridge!!!

hope you have a great trip!

and the view from underneath is really something!

Bon voyage, OBG!

Cruise ship bug out? Why didn't I think of that!

And then, a week or so later, under the Vincent Thomas Bridge (now the Bridge of the Americas) at the southern entrance to the Panama Canal! Been over it a bunch of times, almost under it once...

"...Cruise ship bug out..."

Only problem is, when you are poor like we are, you have to make reservations and start paying 18 or so months in advance. Makes emergency planning a little rough...

Any way you go I'd have a way to convert sea water into drinkable water. That seems like it would be the #1 purchase to make. Even if it's some type of evaporative way, as long as it's reliable and can produce enough to drink over and over.

How big is this boat and how much storage space does it have on it? I’m in no way a boat person, but for longer times out at sea would it be possible to tow a small (12-foot) inflatable raft or row boat behind it full of supplies? You may be able to pick up a inflatable boat rather inexpensively and stow it away or on shore close by and being a blow up raft it would be resistant to sinking.

I'm dying to get more specific about the boat but don't want to count my chickens, etc.

A sizable dinghy is an option, but the realities at sea apparently make regular towing with a load inadvisable.

Should you not find a marina, I believe you could trailer the McGreggor if needed. With the mast down or off, a friendly RV park may let you rent space there, depending on the codes. I've seen a few set up like that.

That's why I spent a lot of time chasing MacGregors on craigslist.

Smart man!
If you have a land home, and a McGregor 26 and need to bug out, just hook up the trailer and go, take your spare "home" and supplies with you.

Second boat inspection. Motor turned over, almost started once, but no joy. So no motoring out and no sailing.

Even more impressed with the lines and details of the boat.

Lots of work to be done.

Hopefully it's time consuming and not wallet emptying eh ?

Going to be some of each, but we hope to spread out the out-of-pocket costs, reduce them by self-help where we can. etc.

Another interesting wooden boat day.

I met the marine engine guy about 0915 and we carted all the stuff down to the boat. By 1030 the engine was purring.

In the interim he confirmed the gas had gone bad and should not be used. That the gas tank was of Monel and about 20 gallons in size. The engine temperature was steady and about where it should be. Compression and spark plugs were at least fair in all four cylinders. The points were usable but should be replaced. The Gray Marine marking appeared to be 4-112 and he guesstimated it was about 30 horsepower. The wiring was in decent shape. After a tap or two to some packing that was loose, the propeller shaft, box, etc. looked good and did not leak. The existing impeller was putting a strong flow of seawater through the engine.

He also asked if he could look the rest of the boat over, and did so. Because the interior is fastened in a way to allow it to be “peeled” back away to expose most of the inside of the hull in the main cabin area , he looked at it the way several of us have – nothing noteworthy mentioned. He pointed out the only damp area he could find in the bilge and thought it might indicate a leaky plank fastener. He looked at the teak decking and said most of it probably could be removed, treated and re-used. Like me he found the lines, brass fittings, carvings, etc. make the boat a charmer.

Then there was the laundry list of negatives and cautions.

Primary among them was his belief the propeller shaft is slightly bent, causing vibration especially at low rpms, and seems to have loosened at least one of the wooden stringers (not a hull frame or rib) on which the engine is mounted because you can see it vibrating back and forth. Based on this he labeled the boat a liability and recommended it not be motored or sailed until a new shaft – and preferably a new engine – is installed. He recommended that along with a new engine, the boat should get a modern exhaust system, water pump, coolant lines, and electrical system components.

He pointed out the interior mast step tensioners were not tight. He thought before any serious sailing is done the mast should be unstepped and checked with all fixed and running gear replaced as a matter of principle, though no particulars damage or faults were visible. Based on his work maintaining rich folks boats, he thought ideally the boat should go into a shed-covered berth for a couple years to be sure everything could be worked on. His opinion was that spending about $40,000 should result in a great $20,000 boat, with annual maintenance in the $4,000 to $5,000 range if hired out and perhaps half that if most of it was DIY.

By the way, he just happened to have a great little used diesel that would work in the boat for about $1500 plus cost of shaft, cooling system, etc., plus labor. I didn’t get a total price for all that.

He also mentioned he works with a non-profit that accepts boat donations. He felt the boat was attractive enough they could get $5,000 to $10,000 cash for it as-is and could match the boat with an owner who could afford a restoration.

So, that makes this boat a no-go for you???

If I needed a perfect boat I wouldn't be looking at this one. I ask myself how long this 50 year old boat has adapted to a bent propeller shaft - if that is what is going on. I seem to recall sailboats can get along without engines if need be. And, would I take this boat if it had no engine or a blown engine?

I think if the owner let's us proceed with testing for topside leaks by watering the boat down and is willing to take the chance the boat can motor a bit so we can clear the marina and do some sailing, then we will do those two things. If what we learn from that does not kill the deal, then the next big decision is whether to spend the best part of a thousand dollars for a marine survey and haulout.

If after all that the only significant problem is the propeller shaft, well, I just do not know.

[I have asked for estimates for a new propeller shaft and replacement engine, etc.]

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

Is it possible to use an outboard motor on this particular boat? I see lots of sailboats around here with kickers on the back end...

Outboard if possible sounds cheapest.

You are going to need an engine to motor in and out of the marinas no matter what right? So, if you don't have one you are stuck in place technically? Is that ok with you? Do they allow that?

The house we are getting needs a BUNCH of work and like you said some things you can live w/out and others you NEED. I think as long as you can afford / plan to fix the "NEEDED" items you should be good.

-Todd

No outboard will fit this design of yesteryear.

An outside berth chosen to allow maneuvering with the prevailing wind would allow no-motor sailing.

But a functioning engine is a safety feature that is a must these days.

Pull the shaft and take it to a place (a 4-wheel driveline & truck shop, or a machine shop with a press and a lathe) and have them straighten it. You are on a budget, rebuild or fix things, don’t just assume you have to buy new. The mechanic is use to working for and with people that have a very large income and lots of cash to spend. But he’s not the end all for how to fix things on a limited budget.

I have fixed lots of things that should have been replaced, and they worked great.

As far as replacing the motor? I don’t understand. If it runs and he says it basically needs points (a tune up) why replace it. It may not set a speed record, but it seems you only want to use it for maneuvering the boat while close to the dock. As long as it runs, it will do this fine.

Outboard engines are expensive and would probably cost more then having the shaft fixed. As far as modernizing the plumbing & water jackets, if it worked for all that time I would guess that as long as its sound, it will continue to work.


They say necessity in the mother of invention.

Heck, I'm not even willing to concede the prop shaft is bent, yet.

How long is the shaft? Machine shops should be able to put it on a lathe and fix it unless it's HUGE then it may be harder finding a machine shop with a large lathe.

If you need a new shaft let me know I know some people in the off-road industry that do splining and make shafts for vehicles, if it's possible they would surely make you one too.

-Todd

Thanks, I will!

Getting very close, now. Risks have been identified and alternatives considered. Details being worked out. Full story if and when.