I am new to this forum, and I just wanted to make a comment about a positive on-line purchasing experience that I recently had with Lifeview Outdoors from Tennessee.

I ordered some survival gear on-line from their website at lifeviewoutdoors.com

The bill, including $23 for shipping and handling, came to about $160. I live in Canada. When the package arrived a few days later, the delivery person wanted another $68 C.O.D. to cover brokerage fees at the border for UPS!!!!

I was upset, and sent an e-mail to Lifeview Outdoors that night. I thought that I had just been scammed, and that I was either going to lose my money, or have to pay an exorbitant cost for the items, or would have to wait to get my refund.

To my surprise, I received a phone call from Mike Merryman at 08:00 the next morning. After a very short discussion, Mike agreed to split the UPS brokerage fees with me, which worked out the best for both of us.

A short time later, Mike sent me an e-mail stating that their company had several complaints about unreasonable rates charged by UPS to International customers, and therefore they decided to remove UPS as a shipping option from their website.

I must say that I am completely blown away by the level of service and attention that I received from Lifeview Outdoors. My order was not worth very much, but yet this company treated me with the kind of consideration usually reserved for family and friends! For service, I highly recommend dealing with them for your survival equipment needs.

Paul

Welcome Newguy!

It's unfortunate you had to learn this lesson the hard way. What you experienced is completely normal for UPS international shipping. I've posted about this several times as I've been burned in the past myself. I will never deal with UPS again and strongly suggest my fellow Canadians do the same.

Yup. A complete rip-off. And no faster than USPS ground. I ordered an item from Cabelas the same day as I ordered from Lifeview, and it showed up the same day.

Cabelas has excellent service even to Canada. The post office used to be the worst choice for international shipping but these days I prefer it to any other method.

I agree 100% with what Hacksaw said. Down here, we get burned even more by UPS International to the point that DHL picked up on it and cashing in because of it.

A lot of times when you order online you don't even have the option to choose who will deliver your package. This is because some companies have a deal with UPS. They get discounts in exchange for agreeing to use UPS and no other delivery service.

No, it's not a racket, it's a business with overhead to cover and profit to be made. Nobody twists your arm to use them. It's the nature of a free (more or less) economy.

You can pack it yourself or have someone else pack it and pay them whatever they want to charge you. You can go online and do all the paperwork and pay UPS directly yourself at UPS.com and drop it off at that same UPS store for FREE.

I know a number of owners of UPS Stores and other similar businesses. None of them are getting rich, they all work long hours and they provide a valuable service at a reasonable price, all things considered. Disliking paying for the service is one thing. Wishing it were cheaper? Open your own or find someone who can provide the service cheaper. However, calling these stores "major rip offs" or a "racket" is simply not justified.

Well I hate to go against the guy who has provided this place for us but I feel I have to disagree...partly.

I agree that the owners of UPS stores aren't gouging...they have nothing to do with who UPS charges for brokerage. I could go on about the service I've received at certain UPS store locations but that's now what this is about...completely different argument.

Brokerage is nothing more than a surcharge for UPS processing your package through customs without customs ever having to lay their hands on it. This used to be a service worth it's weight in gold because Customs (on this side of the border at least) was famous for slow processing times and losing packages (I once had a package take 8 months to arrive here from Scotland because of Customs).

But when their brokerage fee is 3 times what the duty and sales tax combined are, I think the rates are excessive. I've experienced examples where UPS brokerage fees have been triple what the sales tax and duty on the item were, nearly doubling my overall cost (My $160 Scott eVest order cost me over $300 in the end). I've had UPS brokerage decide on it's own what my item was worth. I once bought a broken laptop off of eBay. UPS decided that $5 was an impossible price for a notebook computer and charged me duty, sales tax, and brokerage for a value off $1500. My $5 notebook became a $100 notebook. Because they had already paid Customs for it on my behalf, they washed their hands of the situation and forced me to appeal the charge with Canada Customs. I never did get the brokerage fees back. I have many stories like this but I think a couple of examples will suffice.

***Hacksaw beat me to the punch***

Valid points Doug, but I think the OP issues are with the brokerage company that UPS deals with, not the shipping company directly (unless the brokerage company is owned by UPS).

If you choose to pay the extra for a company to pack the item, you are agreeing to their costs. This is a desicion on your part, the customer. As for brokerage charges, this decision is out of the customers hands aside of picking a different courier company.

If you have anything shipped by Fedex, DHL or UPS costs about the same (plus/minus), but the brokerage fees vary greatly and you will never know the costs until the item is deliveried.

USPS just ships directly and just lets the local country's customs deal with it. Again, this is a pro/con depending on your need/situation (speed, actual item being shipped, etc).

My two cents from a person who relies on international shipping for all my toys!

With all due respect, you guys are comparing apples to oranges. Doug is talking about the individually operated UPS stores, Mr. Saw is talking about corporate UPS policies.

UPS stores are simply a means for an individual or a small business to access UPS shipping facilities and a place to buy mailing and shipping supplies.

UPS corporate is the business to business, business to customer shipping company which does have a nasty reputation for charging unrealistic customs brokerage fees. For use in the U.S. UPS works pretty damned well, I would never use them to ship anything internationally, unless the recipient is willing to pick up the tab.

John E

Was not debating or addressing that issue.

Was not debating or addressing the brokerage issue which is UPS corporate.

I feel your pain, Paul_C... I have experienced some excruciatingly high brokerage fees by UPS when ordering a 27$ pair of Ironclad gloves from the US. I won't mention it here since it's only going to add to the anger.

Not mentioning the fact that you cannot intercept a package being delivered by UPS until not one, not two, but all three delivery attempts have been made (at least that's how it is where I live). Gotta love unions... So assuming a package has arrived to your local facility on monday, you can't get a hold of it until wednesday at the end of the day.

United States Postal Service is the only way to go. My two cents. Sorry you had to learn the hard way, Paul_C.

UPS does their own brokerage. I used to have an account with them when I ran my own business...before I learned those lessons the hard way.

The straw that broke the camels back was when I canceled my account I had $2.75 outstanding on my account. They neglected to mention it...instead they sent a collections company after me.

I have an account with both UPS and FED-EX and the best way to ship (IMHO)is FED-EX, My Sister in Law lives outside Seattle and FED-EX only delivers on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so I use UPS for her and the rest of my shipments go FED-EX for LESS money. It cost $8.00 (Fed-Ex)to ship to my brother a 14 lb box of fruit juice,(he lives in Texas and I live in Utah)and $11.00 to ship via UPS.

Companies that sell on-line should make the customer aware of potential hidden costs when advertising on their websites. When a package arrives at your door and you are required to pay a number of additional charges that were not part of the original agreement...it reflects poorly on the on-line retailer.

Fortunately for me, Lifeview Outdoors were great and I have now learned my lesson without taking too much of a financial hit.

Cheers.

Paul

"...Brokerage is nothing more than a surcharge for UPS processing your package through customs without customs ever having to lay their hands on it..."

I wish I had known about this a couple of years ago, when we were stuck in a motel in Prince George, BC for 17 days. Needed hydraulic parts which were shipped UPS, they got to the border, where they sat in customs for a week or so. Three different times! No way the brokerage could have been more expensive than a motel, with kitchenette, for that length of time...

I had a recent order from Mike at Lifeview. I suggested that they drop UPS for cross border orders as I have had nothing but issues with this company (UPS that is). Instead he agreed to ship USPS ground and I got the package about 8-9 days later. I think I only paid 2 or 3 bucks more but got excellent service from both Mike and USPS/CPS as a result.

+1.

UPS has lost me as a customer (business and personal) for life.

And FWIW, U.S. sellers are losing Canadian business because of UPS' outrageous brokerage fees.

I have Hacksaw to thank for educating me on using the US Postal Service/Canada Post instead of UPS, to avoid the high brokerage fees.

Since then I have purchased many items from the States and have had them all delivered to my Post Office with no trouble (I do not think I have paid duty or taxes yet).

I recently placed an order with Smokey Mountain Knife Works for some more "toys", they ship UPS, so I asked them if they would ship USPS to me because it was International and they had no problem filling my request.

Thanks for the positive information on Lifeview Outdoors Paul_C and Welcome, Newguy.

Mike