I think it can also have a lot to do with the cartridge contruction. I've read more than one account where a cartridge from a caliber was ineffective in (quickly) stopping someone with multiple shots, whereas a differently constructed cartridge in the same caliber can kill a person dead with one shot.
Of course, I've never shot anyone so it's all hearsay to me...

1. Being alive does not equal being a threat, so statistics on who is still alive at the hospital says nothing about whether or not the person who shot them saved his own life by doing so.

2. You did not say what caliber bullet was used on the ones who kept running. If it was a small caliber, that only reinforces my point that bigger is better.

3. Earlier in this thread someone told me that the accuracy rate of cops in duress is only 2 out of 10. If that's true, then you can throw shot placement out the window.

Shot placement rules.

Ok, I went back and found it. This is the post that, if true, means that your shot placement will be mostly a matter of luck and not practice.

Forgive me if this is repeated information....there are just too many posts to go through to see if this has been posted before....if so...sorry.

As a certified instructor, I will reccomend the following for your study....(books)

In The Graves Extreme (The role of the firearm in personal protection) by Massad Ayoob

Stressfire (all volumes) by Massad Ayoob

In Self Defense (the legal, ethical and tactical use of deadly force) by Michael T Izumi

All are (IMHO) excellent reads....and I recommend them wholeheartedly. I often suggest them to any student I am to train as reading BEFORE coming to the class. A lot of time they come in saying how much more informed they are. It usually generates a lot of questions....but those questions are always excellent and usually more advanced than the questions the student had planned on asking before they read the books.

No I don't think they are the 'end all, be all' of the information you need....but they are an excellent start.

Agreed.



This is true too. However, I see puppies with Top SchH competition/work potential get sold for well under $2,000 every week. I admit, this is still real money. But a purebreed anything will cost this much too.

I know of dogs that have been rescued at the dog pound that have gone on to do real service work. Cost does not translate into a good dog. Drive translates into a good dog. People in the business joke that the best working dog in the world right now is sitting in someone's back yard and will never be breed or trained. Who knows? It just might be your dog.

If you tell the police that you shot to kill, you will need one..

Rebuttal time!
1) I wasn't giving stats, just personal observation. However, aside from the guy who died in the ED, and the guy with 14 shots in the ICU, most of them were still mobile. In fact, I'd say that the most debilitated, in terms of being a non-threat, were the 3 femur fractures, the two eye injuries, and a few of the chest shots. A couple abdomen wounds were still pretty mobile. That being said, "Ambulatory" doesn't equal "legitamite threat."

2) Calibers are all over the place. It's also hard to tell after the bullet is deformed, or penetrated through a person. However, all the shotgun wounds so far have been less than fatal (suprisingly). The one person hit with buckshot probably could have kept running, had 1 pellet not broken his femur. It seems that pistol calibers are, therefore, unreliable in predicting the actual damage inflicted (by choosing based on "number" alone). Even the person shot in the forehead was awake, alert, and moving all extremities when they arrived.

3) That's pretty depressing. Better practice reloading, or getting a gun with a big magazine.

My point, not even typed, was that I've seen a bunch of people shot, and most have lived to discharge home. So, don't automatically assume a gun will kill/stop a person intent on harm. Even multiple hits, on a non-drugged person, won't necessarily eliminate a threat. Be aware of that, and don't make assumptions about a gun's capability.

Chances are, if you shoot them in the gut, you'll get your chance to meet them. Very up close and personal.

Where did you get the information that a shot to the gut (i.e., mid to lower abdominal area) is going to do much of anything in the short term? A direct hit to the spine/aorta/vena cava might do it, but that's a pretty small target. A fractured pelvis could give them a bit of a slowing limp, but such gut shots aren't something anyone with training would go for intentionally. Irregardless of caliber.

It's not pain that stops an attacker. And a larger caliber is not really going to be any more painful than a smaller one anyway. I would fear a .32 to the chest a lot more than a .45 to the gut.

I'm not saying the gut is the best place to shoot them. I was replying to another poster who said that a handgun can't stop an attacker unless you hit a vital area. My point was simply that a .44 Magnum gutshot is going to stop you.