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#139717 - 07/15/08 07:45 PM SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS
Chaotiklown Offline
:-)
Journeyman

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 71
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Alright everyone- I've already posted about the trip that I'm about to tackle, and have arrived at a fork-in-the-road having to do with my sleeping arrangements... I'm in debate with myself as to whether or not to bring a tent-

Sleeping in a tent has a bit too much of a confinement factor to it- If walked up on by anything, be it a human or otherwise, it's much more difficult to react to the situation while in a tent. I've heard of bears ripping open tents, and there's also the possibility of an ill-intentioned person walking up.... However, protection from bugs, rain, and small critters is unequaled...

I'm wondering what all of your thoughts are on camping in a hammock, as opposed to a tent- The issues I'd like input on are the ups and downs to both, when taking into consideration rain, bugs, animals, ease of setup, diversity of location for setup, and reaction time/ability to cope with a situation when stumbled upon...
_________________________
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

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#139723 - 07/15/08 08:11 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Chaotiklown]
Fitzoid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 289
Loc: WI, MA, and NYC
I'm going to suggest you consider a Motel 6.

They'll leave the lights on for you. grin
_________________________
-----
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman

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#139725 - 07/15/08 08:16 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: ]
Chaotiklown Offline
:-)
Journeyman

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 71
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Excellent points, specially on the bug-net, haven't thought of that...

I am not paranoid about people out to get me- However I do believe in preparing for the worst, because there's always the possibility- Better safe than sorry. The thing about a tent is the serious lack of visibility around me. Tent walls are no protection- Having to fight my way out of a situation when I can't see seems a bit worse, no? In a hammock I'd be freed up, and not to mention- I'd have a clear line of view should I happen to hear something approaching... Points of dispute please?
_________________________
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

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#139726 - 07/15/08 08:18 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Fitzoid]
Chaotiklown Offline
:-)
Journeyman

Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 71
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: Fitzoid
I'm going to suggest you consider a Motel 6.

They'll leave the lights on for you. grin



I'm more likely to set up on their roof than check into the front desk:-)
_________________________
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

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#139728 - 07/15/08 08:25 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Chaotiklown]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Hammock pros- flexible to set up because you don't need level ground. Gets you up off the ground and away from insects and small critters.

Hammock cons- air underneath you so lose heat in cool temps unless you work insulation into your setup. Curved sleeping position with little ability to change much.
Requires trees or posts to tie off to. Precludes lots of real estate.

Some people love them. I've not used one.

Last time I went camping the guys who used tents were washed out big time by a prairie thunderstorm that was intense enough to spawn tornadoes. I was snug and dry in the back of my Jeep because I'd figured out how to fit myself and my stuff in after tents had proven troublesome when on 4WD trips. (I waited out a 3 day snowstorm at 11,000' in my Jeep one year.)

But if I'm without my Jeep, I'll be backpacking and using a tent. Yes, you can't see much but I've ridden out some pretty good storms in tents and been really glad to not be tarp-camping.
(Colorado mountains)

Super lightweight and low-vis would have you rolled up in a poncho sleeping in a bush. Probably takes a lot of getting-used-to.


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#139731 - 07/15/08 08:40 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Chaotiklown]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
How about this:

http://www.rei.com/product/684087

Put it under a tarp if rains is a possibility:

http://www.rei.com/product/627834
http://www.rei.com/product/655940

I have not used any of these products personally, but that's where I'd start looking. Lots of different tarp options available. I would want netting for bugs to add to that though.

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#139732 - 07/15/08 08:47 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: haertig]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I use a bivy bag and a tarp.

I've considered a hammock many times but unless you can tie them up to something, they're dead weight.

I'm with BigDaddyTX when it comes to ill intentioned people and critters...they don't care if you're in a tent or not and if you're sleeping you won't either until you wake up. Unless you're sleeping fully clothed and equipped without a sleeping bag or anything, you wouldn't be in a position to move very quickly even if you did wake up first.

Either way you take your chances.

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#139737 - 07/15/08 09:54 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Chaotiklown]
Fitzoid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 289
Loc: WI, MA, and NYC
Somehow, I'm willing to bet your next post to the forum will ask if you should walk across the country wearing boots or flip flops...

(By the way, if you wear flip flops, your bayonet will come in handy for cleaning your toenails.)
_________________________
-----
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman

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#139739 - 07/15/08 10:36 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Fitzoid]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Since you don't own a tent or a hammock currently I sense you're just at the exploring your walk across the country stage of things. If you're most concerned about the element of surprise while sleeping then maybe you haven't considered where you'll be sleeping either. Just where are you going to walk the earth afterall? Because its one thing to re-trace the lonely path of the Voyage of Discovery (Lewis & Clark), and another to hitch a ride along I-80 and always stay within a hundred yards of the nearest culvert. On the Lewis & Clark trip, most places you will be all on your lonesome, no one to sneak up on you for miles and miles, you will need to plan your itinerary to stop at places of human habitation. You could die, but most likely of starvation, appendicitis, or maybe boredom if easily bored. Along I-80 otoh you could get a shiv between your shoulder blades, or a 24 hour ride from a talkaholic trucker headed to Salt Lake (like I did once, 'spoiling' my ride through the Rockies and midwest). Neither is all that likely, especially the long haul trucker willing to take you on. But I think you're overweighting the personal safety aspect of this adventure. If you really want trouble, it will find you.

If I were to hit the road again I would take sleeping bag, thermarest pad, and my Double Rainbow tarptent, it weighs in at less than 4 pounds and repels all manner of crawlies, mosquitos, rain and a certain amount of snow. Most times I would prefer the relative comforts of the Motel 6 or Holiday Inn, but am mighty comfortable in the tarptent too. Consider you want to get out of the rain (fast) sometimes, the tarptent keeps your gear drier than a hammock.

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#139740 - 07/15/08 10:44 PM Re: SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS [Re: Fitzoid]
Raspy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
Hammock

For a sleeping system I recommend a hammock system. Yes a hammock can even work in the city. For that matter it can work right in your office. All you need are a pair of supports solid enough to support the weight and far enough apart to hang the hammock.

The advantage of a hammock is that it supports your body above the surface. If the area is wet you stay dry. If the surface is lumpy you don’t have things poking you in tender places. It is definitely softer than laying on the floor or the ground. If you have ever tried to sleep on a non-level surface you know how little rest you end up getting. Because you body had to fight all night to keep from sliding or rolling away. Direct contact with a solid surface can literally drain heat from the body at a phenomenal rate. Thus a hammock eliminates the expense, weight and space of a sleeping pad. Using the right style hammock it also combines the features of a tent. The whole thing ends up weighing less than a pad, sleeping bag and a tent. Although there is less space available.

One complaint many people have against hammocks during cold weather is that hanging in the air the wind blows all around it. With that you are affected by wind chill factor. While true this is not as great as uninsulated contact with the ground. But that can easily be overcome if you do not think along conventional lines. Most people think a hammock must be hung roughly at waist height. Well that just ain’t so. Sure that is convenient most of the time. It can be rigged so that when you are in it you are a mere fraction of an inch or a bit more off the ground. Then a very small windbreak will eliminate that problem.

Conversely you are not limited on how high up you can go either. Sleeping high in the air serves at the very least as a form of concealment since most people rarely look up unless something attracts their attention to do so. Therefore you are likely to go unnoticed. This is even better during the darkness. Even more so if there are other things to hide among.

If you are in the wilds or at least a natural setting like a park or the burbs to city dwellers. A hammock keeps you above those things that slither, creep and crawl along the ground. Higher up it can keep you safe from the wild beasties. In the case of an urban setting this could very well be a pack of wild or at least less than civilized dogs. It can even help you avoid the two-legged variety.

A word of caution. If you are considering the possibility of going aerial for a sleeping platform. You might want to include chest and waist straps as a safety precaution. If startled out a sound sleep you might leap out of bed. If you have a violent nightmare you could thrash your way out. This situation happening could lead to the rude surprise of suddenly finding yourself in free fall just before the thud. The effects of that sudden stop at the bottom will greatly depend upon the starting height. It could be a simple inconvenience, serious injuries or worse. Such straps will greatly reduce the chance of this happening or at least slow you down long enough to realize where you are. Think of them like seat belts in a car.

There is a wide selection of hammocks available on the market. Of course there is also the option of do it yourself route from scratch or in my case adding a few modifications to an existing model. While there are a few designed to accommodate two people most are made to sleep only one. Although in a pinch these single sleepers can be pushed to hold 2 if they are very friendly or in some cases for a parent to include a child.

For those with the desire or need to go ultralight there are the string hammocks. They use relatively light cordage tied in a fishnet pattern. Some of the better ones have ratings of up to 500 pounds. In fact depending upon the mesh size used they can be used as a gill net or a cast net with a few minor adjustments. They can also work as a storage or tote bag for your equipment.

Then there are the old style military jungle hammocks or their civilian descendants. These systems add a roof and sometimes mosquito netting to the hammock. This way they act as a bed and as a tent combined. The modern civilian models are lighter in weight, more compact and have added features making them even better. The most notable of these are the Clark and Hennesy brands.

Sleeping System

Combining the upgraded poncho, the modified hammock and using the emergency space blanket from a maxi survival kit I formed a winter weather sleeping system. I have tested the system in subzero actual temperatures with a measurable amount of wind blowing. Overall I would have probably faired better and much preferred a sleeping mat and a sleeping bag rated for the conditions. While a bit cold and having to get up to stoke the fire it was a survivable situation. No, the initial tests were not an all or nothing situation. I started in warmer temperatures and had backups and a quick out. Initial tests were conducted in my backyard. I’m not going to risk my life on something unproven. Then worked my way up or should I say down the scale. Until I had something that I knew would work in extreme conditions. I would say that adding a sleeping bag rated in the teens or twenties would be comfortable in the minus 40’s or stretched to the 50’s. It was not a clothing optional situation as they were part of the insulation used. Besides it made it easier to get up to tend the fire. The insulated poncho liner is wrapped around you and used as a blanket or bedroll. While I never tried it adding a sleeping pad inside the hammock might have made things even more comfortable.

The poncho set up. In my case and area of operation that being in the Northeast. I have combined a couple of ideas to form a more multi functional garment. One of the ideas was to take a heavy-duty space blanket.
Cut a slit in the center.
Sew bias tape around the resultant opening.
This reinforces the edges so they don’t tear out. It is then pulled over the head and acts as an insulated hoodless poncho. The other concept is to add a layer or liner of insulation to a standard poncho. Ala Ranger Rick. Either of military or civilian design. In most cases such liners as mine are of a pile type fabric, thinsulate or fleece blanket material. This liner can either be attached via snaps or zippers. I prefer and use snaps because they are easier to install. The liner lets the poncho function as a lightweight walk-around sleeping bag. Sort of a high tech bed roll. What I did was add the space blanket idea between the poncho shell and the liner using snaps. When all 3 pieces a used together it upgrades the thermal insulation value for cold weather. The nice thing about it is that each piece can be used independently or in any combination. This assembly not only functions as wearing apparel but also as portions of sheltering and sleeping systems. Don’t forget you further can and probably should line the hood with insulation and a tin foil beanie.

I’ll use compass directions to give some perspective. To start say the wind is blowing from east to west. Of course if you are building such a setup use the actual wind direction to align it. If there is a significant snow cover dig a north south trench. Then hang the hammock so that it fits into the trench without touching the sides or bottom. The trench will act as an additional windbreak. With little or no snow the trench is not necessary. Hang the hammock as close as possible to the ground without touching when fully loaded. The head and foot orientation north to south is whatever is most comfortable for the terrain.

A lean-to frame is the constructed to surround the hammock. The low side points east with the opening toward the west. The top of the lean-to is made so that it barely clears the top of the hammock system. It should extend far enough that when finished the hammock is completely enclosed on the ends and top. Obviously the downwind side is left open.

The emergency space blanket is the draped over the frame. Because of the fragile nature of the blanket it is then covered with the poncho. This gives you a reflective, water and relatively wind tight roof. Then the roof and sides can be covered and enclose with brush, branches, snow or debris to form a more solid shelter. The space blanket liner of the poncho is erected a short distance from and across the opening of the lean-to at the west end. The spacing is such that a fire can be built between them. The different space blankets are in these positions because of their differences in strength to withstand the stresses they will be subjected to. What the combined reflective qualities of the two blankets do is form a reflector oven. The back reflector pushes much of the heat of the fire into the shelter and the roof blanket directs that heat down to where you are sleeping. Only instead of baking biscuits you become the roast.

If there are to be others involved with similar set-ups. The fire reflector can be eliminated. Then the other lean-tos involved can surround the fire to reflect towards each other. Although if there are not enough to enclose the fire the reflector can be erected to fill the gap. This set up will work for about 4 but maybe be pushed to 5. Any more would require separate areas and fires. While common corners can be used in construction. Make sure that at least one corner is left open for access. It’s a real pain to have to climb over the lean-tos to get in and out.

If there is little or no snow the entire setup could be improved by including a hot rock bed as described by Ron Hood. If this is used you might want to lower the hammock even more so that it can actually touch the ground. While the system can be setup in a relatively short time. If the hot rock bed is to be included you will need to add a couple of hours to the prep time. First to sufficiently heat the rocks and for the time to bake the moisture out of the soil. You don’t really want to start your night in a steam bath. When things cool as the night passes that steam will condense and make you wet and even colder.
_________________________
When in danger or in doubt
run in circles scream and shout
RAH

And always remember TANSTAAFL

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