HI John
I didn't know it was called Apophasis, but I was conscious that I was letting you guys know that I do have a strong political position on this war, being upfront was the intention. However I think that this isn't the best place to discuss it. I dont think that's political correctness, that's me trying not to drag the group off-topic with my own views but also letting the pro-war amongst you realise that your views are not to be taken for granted. For many of us France's position smacks less of cowardice than of principle whilst Blair seems to be acting like the bulliy's sidekick. Of course If you guys are genuinely up for debate then fair enough.

I'm happy to learn any survival related lessons from the war though and no doubt in time there'll be a raft of rolicking good stories published and I'll buy a few of them. Of course how much of them I'll believe, eg. Bravo 20 will be up for question.

Justin

Hi Gene
Reading your posts about your job makes me a bit envious, but your views on why your country and mine are in a war are just wrong in my view. Your citizens weren't at risk from Iraq, Iraqis are much more at risk from your state which is attacking them. As for "panty waist"ing, I guess that's an insult based on some ideas of masculinity but I'm afraid it's pretty meaningless to me. Are those americans who demonstrate against the war "panty waist"ing
Justin

ps I've got four Swiss Army knives but two of them are the little Classics so think we're even on that account

>>Look Pal, I have 3 FAMILY members in US MILITARY uniforms over there DEFENDING My Country's fellow citizens;

Bully for you; my Dad was fighting in North Africa when 99% of your countrymen had never heard of Pearl Harbor. So what?

In WWI, the USA didn't get involved until the Lusitania was sunk, killing American citizens. By that time, millions of French, British, Russians, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders had died. In WWII, you didn't get involved until Pearl Harbor was attacked - again, 2 years after the war had started for France and Britain, and even more for Poland, Austria and points east. Your soldiers fought bravely once you did get involved, by all accounts; but you saw no reason to get involved in someone else's war when you weren't threatened as a nation. Why now get all high and mighty when the French exercise their sovereign right to keep their nose out of someone else's war?

I've no problem with humour; I like it. But Cyko's "joke" was insulting to members of this forum, and because of that, IMO, this is not an appropriate forum to post such material.

I'd prefer not to turn this into a flame war, so this will be my last post on the topic.

Okay,
On another forum I wrote a book about the previous French toasting and lockdown here, but didn't mention ETS by name. I did say that we learn a lot about ourselves by other people's jokes about us, and also explained how other countries see us in the U.S. as reckless, arrogant, cowboys. Thus, I am glad that JustinTime posted his U.S. wars joke. It's a political joke, and not a religous swipe, or talkin trash about my momma. I can read it and maybe laugh a little about my heritage, maybe feel a little defensive, and maybe learn something in the process. I too felt that we can discuss the minutia of the Suiss card here ad nauseum, but the actual title of Around the Campfire as " A place for Chit Chat about life or subjects of interest other than Survival or Emergency Preparedness" was a misnomer. I have to tell everyone here that I am easily offended by those who are easily offended, and I'm sick of all the dang Politically Correct sacred cows in the world. I've heard it said that one measure of a man's maturity is his ability to laugh at himself. If anyone wants to send me PMs with Redneck bashing, anti-American jokes go ahead, I'm self secure enough to handle it without whining. BTW, the Embassy of France lists total French military deaths for WWI and WWII as 1,385,000. I'd hardly call them a nation of cowards, maybe just one with a good memory for the pain and suffering of war. Regards, Keys (Bubba) Bear

Thanks to all who enjoyed the pic, to those who didn't, kiss my American ass! Wooohoooo! Just kidding, hehe, lighten up guys, it is a joke! Besides, I love French (insert famous French thing here). <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Cyko
I think you've accidentally hit on what a lot of the world thinks this is about:

It seems it's ok to be a dictator, drug dealer, human rights abuser, etc, etc as long as you're prepared to Kiss America's Ass. But once you start to threaten the profits of Big Business, or not accept America's views on the world, well you better watch out....
Justin
where next, Burma, Zimbabwe?

O.K., well, I guess I somewhat overreacted to that « joke ». <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

That's war for me : it tends to wear out my « sens de l'humour » !

Had I have a better look at that knife, I would immediatly have seen it's a fake !

That's not a french design. It's obviously an american one :
- First of all, horizontal red/white/blue stripes is not the French flag, but the one for Netherlands (I know : they both are small countries, not far apart, somewhere in Europe ; not easy to tell which is which, especially when your only way to learn some geography is to make war ) ;
- Maybe I see those stripes inverted : in which case horizontal blue/white/red stripes represent the « Serbie/Montenegro » flag (another tiny european state !!)
- But in the matter at hand, I suspect these blue/white/red colors are an reminder of the american flag ; you cann't help it, can you ?
- Green and Yellow are the colors of Bresil and Bolivie, but what the heck are they doing here ? ? ? ? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
- The deficient compass seems like what you have to expect whith most « made in USA » products, actually manufactured in China ; <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
- the « tactical pads » are much more useful in the US Armies, as they have a higher percentage of women in their ranks (another victory for the Women Liberation Movement)
- The butter knife blade also says «US approved ». And I hope it's unsharpened as well ! If not, the manufacturer could be sued for selling such a probably eventually potentially dangerous thing (have you ever seen an unemployed lawyer in the USA ?! ?) <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
- The comb reminds me of Travolta, in Saturday Night Fever ... <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
- The corkscrew is another proof this is a fake, poorly designed to look french ; everybody knows soldiers, all over the world, don't need corkscrews as they don't drink good wine, but prefer beer ! A bootle opener would have been more appropriate.
- I have to admit I was puzzled about that little bit called a « pacifier » . I thought the Colt .45 S.A. (or was it another .44 caliber revolver ?) was called a pacifier . Or was it a Peacekeeper ? No, it was a Peacemaker, is that right ? ?
- about Peace, the « Peace and Love » sign, displayed on that knife, also comes from USA ;
- as for the white flag, non conclusive ! I reckon it's an international signal. For instance, Henry DUNANT used it before creating the Red Cross flag (an inverted Swiss flag).

I guess I have completly and correctly « analyzed » this pseudo-french knife, in each of its components.
Oupssss..... I missed the lanyard loop ! Well, that could be french indeed : we do like to be practical in our designs. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Alain

Remember Justin, they started this. This isn't about the United States government oppressing or controlling people of other countries, this is about the idea and dream of FREEDOM and making that dream a reality WORLDWIDE. We are not conquering anyone, the dream is.

Very creative reply frenchy, and worthy of a reward. I'll put you on the list for a barrel of oil and a basket of fruit. Regards, Keys

Sorry, I wasn't going to post anything further in this thread; but WHO started WHAT? Iraq didn't invade the US, and neither did France. Yes, there were terrorist attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon by terrorists who were being given aid and shelter by Afghanistan. The last time I checked, Afghanistan and Iraq were separate countries. As far as I know, no-one has ever provided any evidence, or even claimed, that Saddam Hussein was involved in the WTC attacks. Your argument makes as much sense as invading Switzerland because Germany sank the Lusitania.

Who started it? It was the Americans who trained Osama Bin Laden; it was the Americans who put the Taliban in power; it was the Americans who took sides (rightly or wrongly) in the Arab-Israeli conflict. If you stick your nose into someone else's war and choose a side, you lose your right to act shocked and apalled when the people you've taken sides against decide to treat you as the enemy. (Hunting them down and killing them may be an appropriate response; whining about how unsportsmanlike they were is not.) As Captain Erickson said to the U-boat captain who complained that Erickson had taken him by surprise, "This is war. I'm sorry if it is too hard for you." (Monsarrat: The Cruel Sea)

Where do you get off thinking that the US has a God-given right to order other countries' armies into battle? Or that the French are a nation of cowards because, when Uncle Sam says "jump", they say "not today, thank you"?

In other words, WHO started WHAT? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />